IcEBuRN

As much of a pain in the arse as they are, you still have to have skill to weild the rifle!

Not the same as back in the day with Team Fortress on Quake1 or anything (some scarily good snipers back then!!). But it can still be difficult. By that I mean shots where people are aware your sniping and not a cheap bastard shot in the face when your busy faffing about with Faf and that shotgun!

Everyone loves Dustin tho

Oh jesus , I just realised who FAF actually was on this forum. Shouldn't that be FEF??

Hmm, I'm a bit thick...

Anyhow, considering how I'm so much better than every person ever concieved at counterstrike, can I play in the next match

Dangnit, Dustin wants the password

How long are they playing for anyhoo?

No, that would be the people who queue outside of Mr Wu's chinese buffet restaurants in Soho/Chinatown. Bleuuuggh

Ahh, fond memories

As much bulk prepared, deep fried fat as you can eat!!

Heh, one of my colleagues at work is trying to sort out some business with Gizmondo.

I kinda passed it off to myself as shit. Might see if I can get a freebie now

I think, if I had some skill, and was able to play games really well. I'd be fucking Ninja at games!!

Though really, I'm fairly proficient at RTS games, pretty good a beat em ups. By pretty good I mean generally better than people that have had equivalent playing timage and err FPS PC wise...game dependant obviously, but im hotter than Britney Murphy in a hot place!

I generally get fucked over at football games tho

If you don't get the pikey buffet, and pay a full amount for a full pizza, it's actually pretty nice.

They obviously chuck it together a bit for the buffet. I'm speaking from experience of eating in High Wycombe (which incidentally always used to give me and my mates a stomach ache afterwards). But after eating there of an evening I can say the pizza was alot better!

Has anyone tried Polish black pudding equivalent??

I can't remeber the true name but I think it goes by blood sausage/black sausage also.

The sight of UK stylee black pudding always used to detest me until I tried the polish variety, now I quite like it!

Incidentally the Foriegn (im not actually 100% sure it's Polish) is 20x nicer than normal black pudding(well maybe 20x is a slight exaggeration, but it *IS* alot nicer ) and you don't chop it into slices, just bung it in the oven/grill and eat.MMMM

If you like black pudding at all you'd be foolish not to pop down to one of those delicatessen(sic?) shops and try em!

I play Halo 1 online (Mac) with an XBox controller. I'm the only non M+K player in my clan, and can hold my own. I win/come in the top two maybe 30% of the time in CTF (less so in slayer), and always do well.

It seems that in close combat situations I have the advantage (melee, nades, quick switching weapons), but for long range rifle sniping and medium range pistol sniping I can't compete.

The joypad enables good, measured close movement (despite the turn speed being a lot slower) and good attack combinations.

The M+K setup enables very accurate sniping and fast turning.

It took me a long, long time to get to a standard that could compare to the M+K guys, and when I tell them I'm using a joypad they are suprised.

I also thinkthat Halo employs the use of Joypads better than any other FPS.

I've yet to get stuck in to Halo 2's multiplayer.

*sucks air in through teeth*

While your statement may well be true. There is no indication of how good you are comparatively to the mousers? Be that knowledge of the weapons, tactics and levels (This would definately apply to CTF games)

I get access to all those keys quickly via a mouse/keyboard combo anyway so fail to see the advantage.

Also, maybe your just alot better then your buddies?

Mental Note:

Must resist urge to post on this thread anymore!

Damn, I guess this IS going to turn into an argument about aesthetics! Let me ask you, with all that extra "power" the makers of Unreal 2 were harnassing, did the game actually *look* any better than say Halo to you??

(meh, you're going to say yes now, I can feel it! )

Excuse me???

Of course it was! FAR superior to Halo. Even PC Halo doesn't look as nice as Unreal2 (and doesn't run as quick either).

Not better, but graphically superior.

You forgot the most important point of all:

You can't play an fps properly with those stupid joypad thingies...

*Run's for cover*

Actually manhunt is a very good example because it is about spatial awareness. I cant think of a single multiplayer FPS on the PC where sneaking up on an enemy is a viable tactic. Counterstrike comes closest but even that is pretty tricky. the reason its tricky is because it takes absolutely no time with a mouse to scan every part of the area.

in halo i'd say almost half my kills come from getting the drop on someone. in fact, i think the reason i'm better than most at Halo (sorry bout the gloat) is because I actively avoid getting in toe to toe fights.

So yes, M&K might actually be a 'better' control system in that it is easier to hit your target, but in my opinion it makes for inferior run and gun style gaming.

I think this is about as much as we will ever agree.

Just one thing tho...

Mouse and keyboard is TEH WINNAR!!

I think people confuse "better controls" with "easier controls".

It might be easy to hit a target with a K&M, but that doesn't mean it's better to use. The feel from an S-Pad, with the stick, right trigger and vibrations is better, in my eyes. Not easier than a K&M but better.

Hmm, true to a point.

As I can see on here and no one really disputes, is that a mouser will beat a padder anytime (exluding everyones definition of fun/gameplay etc).

If that's in dispute, i'd glady play an exper pad user with one gun on equal footing and see who wins (I am by no means an exper on the mouse).

Then by that token saying it's mearly "easier" to pull off moves with a mouse would mean that a VERY good padder could beat a reasonably good mouser. But that, quite frankly just isn't true(all other things being equal of course).

There is a limit to how good you can be on either device. But I'm sorry, but the limit is higher on a mouse due to the fact it IS easer to use. You compromise a degree of accuracy by turning the sensitivity up on a joypad. On a mouse, just move your hand faster...

This is an interesting discussion and you guys have made points I didn't really think of before, and no one has become to aggressive!!

But still, a mouse would win, and in my books this is best

That says absolutely nothing about any 'skill ceiling'. It just demonstrates the fact that it's easier to target quickly with a mouse and keyboard. Which doesn't necessarily mean it's a better input system, just different.

Im very stubborn on this

After reading some good explanations from people pro pad, I can agree to most of the points. Different tactics etc etc.

But put a m/k against a pad and there is no contest, the poor chap with the pad will be well and truely nobbled. That to me is better. Sure it may change the gameplay, but in effect the thumpads inherently limit your input(why on earth would you not want the most effective input, if I could have voice input for building in say an RTS, i'd damn well want the fucker!). The mouse is more like an extension of your hand, the way you move it in conjuction with the aiming of the gun, unlike with the joypad.

If you want to use the Real Word example, it's quite easy to jump and spin 180 and shoot somone behind you, or to track a very fast moving target. With a joypad it's virtually impossible. Now, whether or not you hit the moving target is dependant on your level with skill, as it is with the mouse. Point being, at least it's atually possible to attempt these moves with relative ease

You can bang on about incresing the sensitivity all you like, you know it's not fast or as accurate.

Ultimately they are 2 different ways of controlling and they do change the style of play significantly (and you can like whichever you choose). I prefer the mouse, as once your used to it, it provides much faster and free-er(??) movement, and as I said feels like more of an extension of your arm.

Oh and the main point. With 2 people of equal competance the mouser will always win by a mile.

I don't understand the 'speed of input = better firstperson shooter' argument. Surely it depends on the game. I actually reckon that real-life shooting takes longer to acquire a target than some PC FPSs, and if a slower input is accompanied by a greater degree of tactical possibility, I don't see what the problem is...

Heh, I do see your points, but still think you are completely wrong.

Why?

FPS's were first off on the PC, always started with a mouse, when fps came to the console it severly restricted movement and ease of control. Ok it may add other elements like you say, but it's essentially a restriction on the way it's meant to be played.

I could use the same example on a driving game on a PC while using keys..

It's more fun that way, as it i's more of a challange and is much harder to do precise movements making it more challenging! That's obviously a load of balls but it's exactly the same thing

Also, in response to the being more satisfying pulling of good moves. NOT TRUE

You just raise the threshold. You can pull of those moves more easily, but in turn you can perform proportionally harder moves with the mouse that will give the same achievment

Wow, an excellent counter argument there. really convincingly put. i'm totally forced to rethink my comments now.

Heh , apologies.

I had written a massive long rant about it (bigger than the original post)

But on a massive blunder, I closed the IE group on windows and lost it in a split second.

Obviously I couldn't be arsed to write it all again.

I give a quick synopsis...

I've played numerous PC FPS's(including Halo PC) both Halos on "the box"

Quick example: You see a guy in the corner of a screen jump of a ledge down to the floor (a fair distance) a quick flick of the mouse and as long as your fairly capable with your mouse co-ordination you can splat him (or at least start splatting him ) This type of manouver just isn't possible with the slow cumbersome aiming of a thumbstick. Or another example somone is chasing you, you jump off a ledge spin 180 and start shooting him on your way down to the floor. Now I know Halo in FPS terms is relatively slow but those types of things are impossible* with a joypad.

The above are exaggerated examples, but the precision and speed needed for close quarter battles is just as great and cannot be achieved with a pad.

If you exclude knowledge of the maps weapons/tactics, or another way to put it: Assume equal knowledge of them, a competent mouser will anihilate and expert "padder" with ease, I've seen it happen, to others, and have first hand experience.

There rant over

* Unless there is a button specifically configured to complete say a 180 spin.

And another thing, joypad is SOOOOooooooooo much better than mouse and keyboard. Yes aiming is easier with the mouse, but try to jump, crouch, spin round, fire gun one, change to gun, two fire two bursts, throw grenade then reload in 1 second with a M&K. I tried to get technical with my combat in half life 2. Trying to do cool combat duck and cover moves. But lets face it it just isnt practical.

Are you serious???

Do you know how stupid that statement makes you look?

I don't think that makes him look stupid at all.

For one. It IS very like Doom3 (looks wise anyway). And typically any games made with the same engine do look similar. Just with different textures and maybe fancier explosions...

No seriously!!

I'll go check

There is?

I must of missed that...

With a dick this size, all pants are extra tight.

Oh I see, still shopping at the kiddies section in M&S?

You do get some good buys in there...

Incidentall BigLime,

How in the frig do you stand there asking those questions with that ridiculous accent and NOT burst out laughing. I really wouldn't be able to keep a straight face.

Do you wear extra tight pants or something?

Metal Masters on the Atari ST!!

I used to love that game way back when.

I guess it was the forerunner to MechWarrior.

It had 2 good concepts which I like in any game. Mahoosive big robots and winning money to upgrade your vehicle/machine/ship.

It was a side on beat up em basically (I guess rise of the robots style but much better)Each time you won, you got money that you could use to buy a better robot chassis, bigger lasers tougher weapons etc etc. Was awsome:-)

heh,

Bring back the cheese I tell thee!! a la CV2...

BTW how long has this forum been running for. I've seen people with 13k posts!! thats pretty dang impressive. No doubt mine will keep going up as i've discovered this forum at work