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Button Bashing


Tailfly
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I've just seen the post veloS made in the RE4 thread mentioning button bashing, it just got my mind going and I realised, I really, really can't stand it.

Button bashing is probably the wrong terminology, as I'm not going on about how people mash buttons not having a clue what they're doing like in fighting games. What I'm on about is repeatedly hammering the same button as quckly as you can to achieve a result, like resurrecting someone in Killer 7 or dodging certain things in Resident Evil 4. Does anybody here actually like it as a game mechanic?

I absolutely hate it! Yes mainly because I'm completely hopeless at it but also as it's being included in more and more games that just seem to throw it in out of the blue, ruining for me what was a good experience up to that point. Take God of War's Minotaurs for instance, I really struggled to finish them off. Yes, I didn't have to take them on with the button bashing technique but killing them off the standard way means you forfeit the health benefits you get from the former option. Why punish the player for not having freaky fingers? They could of used any number of different ways(well I can think of a couple at least) instead of the hideous option they chose. Opinions? On a forum of many long time games players am I alone on this one?

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I'm guessing it's because there's a trend for games to have painstakingly animated sequences that are impossible to work into normal game design- with the QTE events in Shenmue & Fahrenheit, there's no real way of imbuing the cinematic bits with anything approaching normal gameplay. Thus, the designers have three options- either cut those bits out, have them play out as cutscenes, or introduce some kind of rudimentary gameplay to the sequence to try and draw the player in that way.

It's a pretty crude solution, it has to be said.

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It really is one of those, you can or you can't do skills.

Not very fair in video games really.

Mario Party button bashing games are a disaster in our house, cause I'm great and the missus isn't so it makes the game unfair from the point of view.

Having put them in games that I've worked on in the past, I can pretty safely say that it's a case of "erm, we need to stick something in. How about a button bash, yep, that's easy to do, stick it in."

It really needs to be phased out, just as joystick waggling was; I feel button bashing will begin to take a lower key come the Revolution.

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There are sopme circumstances when it's good, such as when you're trying to shake something off your character, like in The Suffering: Ties That Bind.

Do you not think button/stick combinations would work better and generally be more accessible for people? They'd still present a challenge but it wouldn't be an insurmountable one for most, as button mashing I feel probably is.

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It's the only mechanic which can replicate physical exertion to get something done.  You're working as hard as the guy on screen to get things done.

This has been explained very badly.

It certainly does that.

Sadly most often, it's not a case of judging physical exertion, more, how fast can you do it; which is where most people fail.

Steady rhythmical taps would work fine, over time you're still going to 'feel the burn', but at the same time you're not going to get that can or can't shuffle finger at 300mph.

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It's the only mechanic which can replicate physical exertion to get something done.  You're working as hard as the guy on screen to get things done.

This has been explained very badly.

No, I get what you mean. I actually thought the button-mashing in the likes of Resi 4 and Fahrenheit made perfect sense in the context of the game. The furniture dodging and battling against the wind in the latter was fittingly exhausting.

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It's the only mechanic which can replicate physical exertion to get something done.  You're working as hard as the guy on screen to get things done.

This has been explained very badly.

Yeah that's what I think. In RE4, the button bashing is only used when Leon is doing something rudimentary and strenuous - hacking at the El Gigante, running from a falling boulder etc. In this case, I feel the button bashing is entirely justified as it makes you exhert yourself like your on screen avatar, instead of comfily sitting there waggling a pad or doing a few button combos.

I like them. But then, I am ace at them. :lol:

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Hypersports / Track & Field are eternally ace :lol:

I missed the boat with those, were they multiplayer? I'd imagine button bashing can work well pitting yourself against human opposition. When it's against the computer saying you can or can't pass a certain task though, well I really can't see the point.

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Yeah this is what I'm talking about. In Resi 4 where the shit is hitting the fan and you hammer the button to push a wardrobe in front of a window makes it all the more exhilirating. The same goes for God of War with the minotaurs. You hammer the button while shouting "DIE YOU BASTARD".

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Yeah this is what I'm talking about.  In Resi 4 where the shit is hitting the fan and you hammer the button to push a wardrobe in front of a window makes it all the more exhilirating.  The same goes for God of War with the minotaurs.  You hammer the button while shouting "DIE YOU BASTARD".

But I feel many people in the same situation will be hammering the button screaming "DIE YOU BASTARD" only to be confronted with the fact they aren't physically able to hammer a button over 8 times a second, destroying the game experience along the way.

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Do you not think button/stick combinations would work better and generally be more accessible for people? They'd still present a challenge but it wouldn't be an insurmountable one for most, as button mashing I feel probably is.

Not really, you really ought to play the game, I only got taken down by gougers about halfway through. You need to set the scene: I was trying to keep a prson warden alive, I'd just taken down some Arsonists (monsters on fire) and Marksmen (great hulking things with back full of guns) when a couple of Triggermen (giant clunking spiders with guns for legs) clunked towards us. I took the battle to them, which was probably a big mistake as as soon as I ran towards them somee Gougers (things with big mouths that try to eat you) apppeared and Surpressors (meaty slabs of torso with a torch stuck through their head and a chest of tommy gun) appeared on the level above looking down. Fucking boom chaos. So shotgun in on hand, molotovs in the other, I join in the havoc, and discover for the first time you can get pinned by a Gouger. Great stuff. But the last thing I needed would have been some semblance of calm control during such a mad rush, and a simple button mash (very very easily done I might add) throws him off ripe for a BOOM!

So yeah, it was good then, but having to mash my fingers off just because Tyler is such an unhealthy fuck in Fahrenheit is awful.

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It's the only mechanic which can replicate physical exertion to get something done.  You're working as hard as the guy on screen to get things done.

This has been explained very badly.

This works amazing well in farenheit.

Some of the long QTE's work amazing well with it.

SPOILERS

The bit where the room is collapsing and the big fight near the end where you end up running along the wall

As the QTE draws on you get more and more worn out, to the point where you are (or at least your fingers are) so tired its hard to complete.

It conveys the feeling of the epic struggle of the two hidden points above even more.

You start fresh and finish tired, but feel that you've achieved something.

Those trigger QTEs were just one of the many things that Farenheit did so well.

But yeah, its annoying as hell in God of War.

I tend to drop the pad to my lap, hammer away and then pick it back up to carry on.

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This works amazing well in farenheit.

Some of the long QTE's work amazing well with it.

SPOILERS

The bit where the room is collapsing and the big fight near the end where you end up running along the wall

As the QTE draws on you get more and more worn out, to the point where you are (or at least your fingers are) so tired its hard to complete.

It conveys the feeling of the epic struggle of the two hidden points above even more.

You start fresh and finish tired, but feel that you've achieved something.

Those trigger QTEs were just one of the many things that Farenheit did so well.

But yeah, its annoying as hell in God of War.

I tend to drop the pad to my lap, hammer away and then pick it back up to carry on.

I've never disagreed with you so much Andy. Whilst playing Fahrenheit my overiding feeling was "Fuck my fingers are going to fall off". I didn't even registeer what was going on onscreen. It's the lowest common denominator to make someone feel involved, like giving up all verbal debate and resorting to a dumb slow punch, and an embarrasment for a self-proclaimed "clever game".

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Not really, you really ought to play the game, I only got taken down by gougers about halfway through. You need to set the scene: I was trying to keep a prson warden alive, I'd just taken down some Arsonists (monsters on fire) and Marksmen (great hulking things with back full of guns) when a couple of Triggermen (giant clunking spiders with guns for legs) clunked towards us. I took the battle to them, which was probably a big mistake as as soon as I ran towards them somee Gougers (things with big mouths that try to eat you) apppeared and Surpressors (meaty slabs of torso with a torch stuck through their head and a chest of tommy gun) appeared on the level above looking down. Fucking boom chaos. So shotgun in on hand, molotovs in the other, I join in the havoc, and discover for the first time you can get pinned by a Gouger. Great stuff. But the last thing I needed would have been some semblance of calm control during such a mad rush, and a simple button mash (very very easily done I might add) throws him off ripe for a BOOM!

So yeah, it was good then, but having to mash my fingers off just because Tyler is such an unhealthy fuck in Fahrenheit is awful.

All that does sound bloody ace, if all that is done by button bashing though I fear I may come out the other side of the game severely crippled!

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But I feel many people in the same situation will be hammering the button screaming "DIE YOU BASTARD" only to be confronted with the fact they aren't physically able to hammer a button over 8 times a second, destroying the game experience along the way.

I see where you're going with this now. The answer to this is autofire. :lol:

Do they even make joypads with this on anymore?

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I see where you're going with this now.  The answer to this is autofire.  :)

Do they even make joypads with this on anymore?

:lol:

Worryingly with more and more games including it, it may what I'll have to resort to!

BTW looking at the responces so far I'm feeling like I'm out on my own on this one, no one else absolutely hate them?

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I agree generally, but as mentioned, its friggin' fantastic in God of War. Its deliberately tough, and you need to put some proper effort in if you want to use it to finish enemies off quickly. Shouting "Diiieeeeeyoouuubaaaastaaaarrrrd!!!!" through gritted teeth, hammering desperately on the pad, and watching your sword inch closer to a particularly annoying enemy's neck is incredibly involving.

I :) God of War.

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I think it's OK in short bursts and if the bash-rate you have to produce isn't stupid. The button-bashing bits in The Warriors, to use a recent example, have been fine so far and have been a reasonable-ish way of representing the physical effort in doing pull-ups or running away from bad things (enemies, runaway rollercoasters :) ). The bits in RE4 and GoW were similar, from what I remember.

As the main gameplay mechanic for a game though...no way.

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I've never disagreed with you so much Andy. Whilst playing Fahrenheit my overiding feeling was "Fuck my fingers are going to fall off". I didn't even registeer what was going on onscreen. It's the lowest common denominator to make someone feel involved, like giving up all verbal debate and resorting to a dumb slow punch, and an embarrasment for a self-proclaimed "clever game".

:)

Nevermind eh?

I'm used to having people disagree with me.

On a side note I'm loving your writing style at the moment.

Everything you write sounds fantastically amazing! And its not just what your writing about The Suffering, even that stuff above is exciting to read.

One could say your current writing style is totally totally sweet.

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