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They didn't forget, this was designed with no flying in mind. They're just keeling over in a sorry attempt to appease shitters and stop their user base from dwindling any further.

No, they did forget how to design around flying. Because flying only became a problem from Cataclysm onwards. Flying was something earned for and epic once you did WITH PURPOSE. Burning Crusade having whole sections only via flying with quest hubs and dailies. Wrath taking it one step further and making it vital in the mountains (you...I remember you!..) whilst progressing up to 80 period, which again, felt epic.

Enter Cataclysm. The only place that really used it was the first raid instances. Nowhere in the questing did it use it, there was no flying locations/hubs, and thus a lack of epic to boot. It had been merely been reduced to a efficiency button. The community (ie:you and me) mistook the lack of flying content for 'flying isn't making questing fun at all, wah!' and Blizzard blindly went along with it.

Whilst I agree with a no flying until a certain questline or level cap model (the former would be far better, around say, halfway to level cap) there was nothing absolutely wrong with flying. It was something added to the game that made our characters feel all the more awesome, and it pisses on WoW's heritage to not having flying content from then onwards.

In an ideal world, flying would have been kept as a rite of passage to obtain. Not in the way they're doing it now, mind, as there's fuck all point to obtaining it for draenor, but you get what I mean. Kept it at 5k gold. Kept a questline/reputation of some sort even if it stays as old content a requirement, so on and so forth.

Az is fairly close to my own views (I don't agree with absolutely everything with him either, in the latest video for example he says never to revive old dungeons. I don't agree, they can, just don't bring them back in the rubbish 'tourist mode' manner you seem to be for WoD. Heroic Deadmines in the Calaclysm reramp at max level was actually decent with actual effort put in. What players now seem to be getting in WoD look to be a complete joke in comparison*.) so expect more Az.

*Even if it's just supposed to be a replica of the place, which I'm all for, you are only disrespecting the old WoW team's efforts by making them such a joke and putting a 'mythic' label on it to further insult the games heritage.

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Fuck me what a load of shit, flying was something everyone got when they hit the required level be it 70, 77 or 90 there was no earning, there was no rite of passage you got to the level then went and to see a trainer. Cataclysm being the only exception due to where the majority of the expansion was placed. Should there be flying only content, honestly I don't think it really matters as long as the content when you get there is good.

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But NEG, there were plenty of areas in MoP that required flying to get to. It was a landmass designed around flying. And in Cata, the whole continent had to be redesigned to allow for flying because of all of the hidden junk and seems between each zone. You're just spouting off inane babble with no actual facts to back it up. You can't compare getting flying to finishing the Dreadsteed questline. Buying flying off a vendor doesn't even stand in the shadow of the class based mounts.

Nothing has improved by introducing flying again into WoD.

As for timewalker dungeons. They're just a fun little addition. You can't have the experience of a TBC heroic again, it's just not feasible. The only way they could actually make it similar, was if they banned certain specs from doing it unless they physically form the group themselves, and removed all the spells that have been added since.

What exactly is Az's standpoint in the game though? He's not subbed, so he doesn't care that much for raiding. Otherwise he'd be looking forward to the next tier of what has so far been, superb raiding content.

He doesn't PvP, so he doesn't care about the awful state of PvP right now.

He only plays affli, so must be delighted about the fucking worst information that came out of that interview.

What exactly does he get out of WoW, apart from being the voice of the /2 shitter?

Also, it was so brave of him to make a stand, and unsub for the month to show how adamant he is about everything... yet still play everyday on the PTR to make his broken records. So brave.

Anyway, back to the QandA. What is wrong with having a spec that requires more from the person, to get a greater output? Why must that be that be attacked like a 4 year old having a temper tantrum while playing "mummies and daddies"? "NO! You're not playing the way I want, take that back, no... no one can be the demo now".

It's just a shame that 6.1 only contains a new tier, and a terrible zone. But hey, as the timeless isle showed in the past, just put a load of rares in there with some rare drops, and you'll keep most of your audience subbed regardless.

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Just happy to have some new raid content to be honest. What with the varying levels of difficulty I got burnt out of BRF too fast.

I am curious as to why they left timewalking/mythic dungeons out of that trailer though. Doesn't really make people aware of them :)

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Logged on. Out of curiosity checked how much the wow token was going for. Was 50k. Remember hearing people say they'd dropped to 20k a bit ago and was surprised they'd gone up in value so much. Bought one. Just over an hour later I get the mail with 50k gold from the sale. Realise I have nothing I really want to spend it on. Wonder why the fuck I just did that. Log off, hating myself a little more than I did before.

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Absolute bullshit. You can't just wave off the art team and put all the onus on the coders. It's because the art team has got so good, that there has been less content. It's taken 8 months for them to make a zone that was originally going to be there at launch, a raid, and some boats.

"Why can't we do more interesting things with the boats?" How exactly the fuck do you think that would happen, when they don't have any assets to do it with? There are just too many resources going into one-use situations. The instances in WoD *look* amazing, they really do. But none of it is reusable. The reason we could get 3+ dungeons per area, was because the assets used then were very much reusable. How many times did we walk through the same auchindoun corridor?

They are all equally at fault right now, with the exception of the raid designers.

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Ok and I know this is probably a bit early to judge but the patch is a big pile of shit. The raid better be good....

I've been trying to write a concise view of the patch without sounding bitter, I think I'll just quote John as he nailed it!

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Even the bits that are there feel like they were created with little care.

The ship yard introduction quest involves visiting two NPCs which are spaced far enough apart to be inconvenient, you then have to run between them several times stopping off and kicking your heels for a minute at each point whilst a boat builds or quest finishes.

For me the final kick in the teeth is that the second destroyer you build is a rare so has an extra equipment slot, you are then told make and equip a different item into that slot destroying what was there originally. If the ship had come with a empty slot then putting something in it would feel like a small win but it doesn't and it makes the experience a little bit more shitty. It's a small thing to get narked about but at that point I wish I had just spent the evening playing Batman.

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Yeah that was a ridiculous timewaste. Running out to Shipyard Mission table is already old.

Everything's just timegated up the wazzo. Want your legendary ring? Need to shipyard. Need more ships? Need Reps. Need to rep grind? Want to Rep Grind? Do 2 bonus objectives. 2 days for a Ship Mission?

I think the most ridiculous thing is - I made 5 ships to do more missions. I've now learnt a new type of ship to succeed at other missions....but you can't "deactivate" ships...so I have to wait until I can expand the Shipyard, or hope a ship is destroyed. Farcical.

Tannan Jungle feels too big and difficult to navigate for "Timeless Isle" stuff (Which you had a decent chance at running across rares/elites for).

Hopefully the raid is good...

Mythic dungeons could be fun too

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So let's talk about Shipyards


[i'm going to ignore the complete idiocy of the Shipyard layout (for the Horde at least, haven't seen the Ally side) that seems designed just to make you spend extra travel time,presumably to give the illusion of content]

I don't understand what Blizzard were going for here (or I think I do, but I can't believe they're that stupid)

You run in do the shipyard tutorial, you unlock, you learn, you progress...you need to come back in 2 days and see if the RNG gods have helped? Killing any sense of progress or achievement...

And then "everything" to do with upgrading ships type/equipment it is gated behind other grinds (either mission number, rep or camping rares...unless you got there on day 1 when everything was sortable)

One popped up just now. 2 Ships, need 5 traits to counter. It takes 2 days and rewards 100g. (Yes. 2 days. 100g). That's a ridiculous rate of return. Never mind getting 2 ships to decent levels with right gear his a horrible unrewarding time/resource sink. But for 100g...why the hell bother? You can grind that from mobs quicker that faffing about getting the resources to get ships, to level up ships to hopefully win and not be back to square one. They took the rewards of follower missions and multiplied that timescale by 5 times but not the rewards, and made it risky. Where's the incentive?

Oh they're need to grind quest wins (the mission rewards aren't as important as the credit for completing a mission) to unlock new ships, to grind, to try and RNG win your Legendary progress (and maybe HFC cache whcih seems to be the only real reqard here).

It's pretty much all about grinding to try and chance RNG improve, to try and chance RNG to progress to try and chance RNG again...and at any point you can be knock backed to nearly square 1 as your ship can fail. Oh but there's normally a 2-3 day window between each mission start/end (unless you've got a Spirit Lodge, ground out waystones and....got lucky from RNG!)

And it seems Blizzard want you to fail, and to lose ships. (Some of the later missions, particularly in the Legendary quest line don't seem "fully" counterable...you'll always have a chance at failure...and at losing ships). But the risk/reward balance (other than legendary ring...possibly) is completely off...in terms of prep grinding and timescale...compared to the content the Shipyard is "superseding".(Even after some of the massive nerfs to gold/salvage yards to try and make it previous "content" less appealing)

But this also means...you don't send ships on missions. Previously I'd send pretty much all my followers off, or I'd choose to limit how many I'd send to conserve resources. With ships the most sensible option is to NOT send your ships until the right missions pop up - yet again timegating content behind RNG = because the risk/reward ratio is completely off. You leave your hard ground/lucky won RNG fleet in the base not achieving or porgressing anything.

It's actually quicker (and somewhat less risky) to rebuild ships and hope they upgrade to Blue/Purple, then to send on missions (which might not pop, give largely crap XP and might fail). GR/Oil aren't that hard to come by (especially if you're grinding missions for more ships). I've spent all day making and rebuilding subs to get a decent set (RNG!)....because of the crew. No thanks I don't want Goblins that will give double gold (200g in 2 days!) if the mission is successful and available(1 gold mission out of 20 I've seen) Undead/Panda for increased win chance (and hopefully less repeat grinding) are much better, and other than time easier to get.

The last point - nameless, backgroundless ships. I know people might not be as attached to followers as I am - but I didn't really use the inn. Every follower I've recruited from the world through questing, achievements or contracts. I know where they all came from (some of them I fought beside). I see them in the Garrison or sending them on a mission and there's a sense of...identity? (Not sure that's the word...hopefully I've made it clear). With ships that doesn't exist. I'm not attached to them. You can't see them in the Shipyards (well you can, but not named/crewed). They're more at risk, but I care less. "Oh no...not..um..what was that ships name?". I don't care about losing an asset I'm attached to. I care about how fucking long it'll take to grind out an identikit asset.

I've been reading various forums to try and pull the above thoughts together, and I can't see anyone really defending Shipyards, but most are feeling it's mandatory for the HFC Cache and Legendary quest...can't see anyone still doing them long term,whereas followers paid off as a decent "long term" investment (albeit for a few simple clicks once you'd recruited/leveled up/traited properly)

Tl;dr - The above picture is what most people want. Swashbuckling adventure on the high scenes. What we got was slow, unrewarding and basically an exercise in waiting/risk management praying things pay off - not for massive rewards, but for a tiny sense of progression versus a huge cost to regrind. It's almost like a "Freemium" game...but they took out the pay to speed up options. Whatever it is it's bad.

I've really no idea what the designers at Blizzard are doing. I'm not saying I could do better, but how anyone didn't test this and see how stupid and unsatisfying it is I'll never know. Risk/Reward/Sense of Progression all gone behind massively timegated RNG. They looked at Follower missions and somehow made them much much much worse. They really don't seem to understand their player base, how they operate and why most people play MMOs.

(Sorry for long rant. This is what happens after Wine and no one on Skype to whinge about games to!)

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Best followers are from the inn mate. Charles Norris represent!

Just give less fucks about boat missions; it's shit content that's not worth getting worked up about. You are right, they have no clue what they're doing but what can you do other than unsub?

My main guild has gone from an 30 player experienced team at WoD's start down to about 8 actual players who want to raid. Even some of the most addicted players are quitting.

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I've been reading various forums to try and pull the above thoughts together, and I can't see anyone really defending Shipyards, but most are feeling it's mandatory for the HFC Cache

HFC Caches don't work like the previous tier. I.E Heroic kills = Heroic cache not Mythic cache after a set number of kills. Since we were all fully kitted out in Heroic gear halfway through BRF, this again seems like one less incentive.

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The shipyard is mind-bogglingly rubbish, it's true. Quite enjoying Tanaan, timewalking, the mythic dungeons and the Citadel, though - just did the Kromog-type guy with all the grabby hands and the giant bubbles of goo and the weird runes you have to stamp on, resulting in my first bit of T18 (possibly the most hideous - and not in a good way - helm I've ever seen, the derpiness is off the charts with this one!)

Legendaries work in timewalking dungeons which is quite fun, Tynon used his staff from Firelands and we both used the MoP cloaks. I suddenly feel the need to get a set of glavies for my rogue. :P

Yeah, I'd imagine that if any class has a particular tier set from TBC onwards with a ridiculously OP or fun set bonus, it's worth digging it out to play with as the T17 set bonuses persist at least. Dig out your sets, dig out your warglaives, your Shadowmournes, your Thori'dals!

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It's a side effect of missions started before these hotfixes - items should work as normal going forward


  • Most long Naval Missions have been reduced to a time of 18 hours or less.
    • For Naval Missions currently underway, mission times will not change.
    • The duration of Raid-type Naval Missions has been reduced from 2 days to 4 hours. They will continue to immediately respawn if not completed.
  • Gold and Apexis Crystal rewards for Naval Missions that reward those currencies have been increased.
    • For Naval Missions currently underway, gold and Apexis Crystal rewards will be larger when the Mission is completed.
  • Oil costs for most missions have been increased.
    • For Naval Missions currently underway, Oil costs will not change.
  • The amount of Oil you receive from the Oil Rig has been doubled.
  • While in a raid group, players can now progress through "Upgrading The Fleet" and "Naval Domination" and increment quest credit as well as turn in the quest once completed.
  • Ship Blueprint: Battleship now requires 'friendly' faction standing to be obtained.
  • We continue to insist that the Shipyard grant players resting XP.
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Sooo....it's now been pretty much confirmed that HFC is indeed the last raid in WoD. MMO-C have all the other points as well.

This is my particular highlight:

  • Some expansions had four big patches, some had three, Warlords had two big patches with Patch 6.1 and 6.2. As the team gets closer to hitting the goal of a small gap between expansions there will be less large patches in each expansion.

6.1 was a numbered patch but not a big patch. They even admitted that themselves that it was a mistake to name it as such. The hilarity continues.

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I know I'm just repeating but yeah it's sad that they'd fuck up and say 6.1 was a big patch when they themselves said it wasn't in recent interviews.

Edit: So...for Warlords, the sub paid for nothing outside of server access, 90% of the content came with the expansion box and staggered to the player base over er...however many months, whilst they worked on one new raid for 6.2. Funny how quickly they figured out 'obtain flying' content though, eh? My theory during these slow dundrums has always been that they're not paid to make content constantly, more money isn't made that way they figured. it's just been far more evident they don't work full time since Cataclysm.

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To be fair, most of the comments on MMO-C sum up my feelings. This interview compared to the interview with Hazzi a few weeks back just shows how one doesn't know what the other is doing. So disappointed in the state of the game at the moment and have been for a while. Thankfully, the guild is still keeping me logging for raids. If it wasn't for that fun social aspect I don't think I'd have come back at all for 6.2

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I'm seriously looking at quitting, my sub runs out in August.

I can't see me playing beyond that.

New content is dull

Shipyard is horrible

New zone is horrible.

New raid is just dull - though I have only seen 5 bosses.

Oh and warlocks are on the shitty end of the shitty stick

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