Alterac Valley

[therealjohnpeat]

I've spent a fair bit of time in AV of recent - and I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that it may be THE most joyless, badly designed 'game' I've ever played...

I really have NO idea what Blizzard have in mind for AV - I'm sure they intend it to be a large-scale battle with various strategic elements - but what they've created is a staggering mess of a thing IMO

First - foremost and most unavoidable is the sheer TEDIUM of the whole thing - it just takes SOOOOO long - played 'as intended' a game can easily pass 9 hours!!!!

Then there's the complexity of the gathering of supplies, capturing of positions etc. etc. - all of which, whilst it seems 'clever', is really just a 'timesink' by and large - and a total 'what the fcuk?' for anyone new to the place too.

The real killer for me tho - is that equipment, tactics, skill, organisation etc. largely counts for nought - it's just a massive zerg-fest where the winner, more often than not, is the faction who has the most inexhaustable supply of people willing to come in when other drop out through sheer tedium (e.g. - usually the alliance).

I'm not even going to go into issues like the imbalance of the map - the staggeringly clueless inclusion of Korrak (WHY!?) etc. etc. - because, to be honest, I still think you'd be facing the most boring game in the universe even without those factors....

Does anyone here actually enjoy AV? - apart from as a 45 mins HK Zerg (not much point in playing longer for Honour as it will be diluted to zero after that time anyway)?

Oh the rewards are nice - probably the nicest of all the BGs - and the fact you earn Rep just by being there is great (nay essential given the time it takes to win!!).

The 'rep for nothing' aspect is probably the only thing which saves AV from being abandoned entirely - I know a couple of people who will fish/farm/mine a few hours/day and almost never attack anything - just for rep!!

After a few days in AV tho, I relish a good AB game (by far the best BG) - I'll even risk WSG despite the fact that the WSG 'experience' varies massively depending on who you're playing...

Everytime I see someone on a Frostwolf Mount tho - I have to wonder where they left their sanity

[Mr Ben]

Just over a quearter of the way through revered here, and I did enjoy it at the start untill I hit revered, being a healer. Its gotten a tad tedious now though. Needless to say, I doubt I'll play AV after I get Exalted.

[RJames]

9 hours? AHAHAHAHAHAH.

Get some good leaders.

I've lead Horde to victory in under 3 hours about 3 times in the last month (one time was 1h 47mins, from instance start).

It IS about zerging to a certain extent (which is good, because it means organisation counts for more than epixxes (good on our server, for Horde, in PvP)), but it's also about organisation.

The Alliance are honour whores and so never form a full raid on TVC. Whereas Horde always do, and by and large, listen to their leadership.

Consequently, the win-loss ratio for Horde on our server is something around (literally) 50-1.

Also, Exalted folks on both sides still show up, which should tell you something too.

Arathi is better, from a tactical combat perspective, for sure. But I like a lot about AV... you just have to have a side willing to play (not go fishing for honour/rep- again Alliance on TVC) and who know that's it's about a series of pushes vs NPCs, NOT about fighting the other side, or about 'defending' anywhere.

I like it.

[sprite]

In my limited BG experience I've found that you're right - the Alliance do seem to go for the HKs.

I've got a possible explanation for it though. Every time they enter BG, they resign themselves to the fact that they've lost and so just do all they can to soften the blow

I've lost a couple of times on WSG ... one was a 9 v 6 outnumbered and the other was 10 v 7.

Sweet victory when we won another 10 x 7 though

[therealjohnpeat]

I suspect the situation on Draenor is the opposite of RJ's - in that the Horde seem more interested an farming a bit of honour and rep than in winning the battle overall...

The biggest issue seems to be that, as the evening games go on and on and on, people start to drift off to bed. Slowly the horde numbers dwindle and the alliance win almost by default (there being FAR more of em) - this can be 3am or later tho...

Actually 'winning' in AV is too hard IMO - the act of taking the enemy base requires a concerted push for a lengthy period if the sides are balanced which drags the game out indefinately - or so it seems from where I'm standing anyway.

It's not for lack of people TRYING to lead either - but I've been in there too-many times when we've held the entire battlefield and were pushing over that DAMNED bridge - only for the Alliance to launch an attack on the Snowfall and Stonehearth GYs and drive everyone backwards - again and again and again.

Bottom line is that I think some form of time limit - or a resource gathering (or NPC killing or whatever) 'meter' like AB - would actually improve the 'game' immensely.

At the moment, the game can go on indefinately - like 2 teams in WSG holding the flag (something else which should be reset after a period of time IMO) and when people can't see the progress-to-the-end of the game they just give up and wander off and it just goes on and on and on and on...

The overall 'idea' of AV is OK - but the implementation - as I've seen it anyawy - just just a tedious mess...

[RJames]

I suspect the situation on Draenor is the opposite of RJ's - in that the Horde seem more interested an farming a bit of honour and rep than in winning the battle overall...

The biggest issue seems to be that, as the evening games go on and on and on, people start to drift off to bed.  Slowly the horde numbers dwindle and the alliance win almost by default (there being FAR more of em) - this can be 3am or later tho...

Actually 'winning' in AV is too hard IMO - the act of taking the enemy base requires a concerted push for a lengthy period if the sides are balanced which drags the game out indefinately - or so it seems from where I'm standing anyway.

It's not for lack of people TRYING to lead either - but I've been in there too-many times when we've held the entire battlefield and were pushing over that DAMNED bridge - only for the Alliance to launch an attack on the Snowfall and Stonehearth GYs and drive everyone backwards - again and again and again.

Bottom line is that I think some form of time limit - or a resource gathering (or NPC killing or whatever) 'meter' like AB - would actually improve the 'game' immensely.

At the moment, the game can go on indefinately - like 2 teams in WSG holding the flag (something else which should be reset after a period of time IMO) and when people can't see the progress-to-the-end of the game  they just give up and wander off and it just goes on and on and on and on...

The overall 'idea' of AV is OK - but the implementation - as I've seen it anyawy - just just a tedious mess...

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Re: WSG

Those are the best games! If you're bored defending the flag, send 8 guys to return yours! That's what we do.. sometimes. Either you do and score, or you don't and they get yours because they saw what you were doing. Neither is a stalemate, and planning from that stage is really fun- sending in 2 rogues and a warrior to try and kill their FC at all costs, from a group of 6 of them, and just return that flag!

Sap on their priests, full dps on their FC and boom! Sure, you die, but you get the flag back too, then score!

It's even easier in a WSG PUG vs PUG because you only need to get 5% organised to beat them.

Surely the point of winning AV is that it has to be coordinated!?

Who cares if they get snowfall when you're capping their bunkers?

Correct strategy on their part though, like I said: defence is ALWAYS useless in AV. Much better to sally to your objective than try and stop the opponent. They'll always get a lucky grab eventually.

But yeah, the late night games are crap anyway (though Alliance kids ALWAYS go to bed before Horde). Worst I've seen was:

11pm-midnight Alliance had us back in OUR base, with Ivus assaulting us too.

40 vs 40

1-2am We recapped FW and pushed them back to IB

40 vs 40

3 am We capped Stonehearth.

40 vs 25 - alliance went to bed.

Thing is, when this happens in reverse, Horde ALWAYS stick around, because we KNOW we don't lose AV. Ever.

[therealjohnpeat]

It would be nice if anyone has any strategy tips/links for this - because I've spent a good 10-15 hours in AV in the last 10 days and I still don't grasp half of the collecting ram hides, blood etc. nonsense

[RJames]

It would be nice if anyone has any strategy tips/links for this - because I've spent a good 10-15 hours in AV in the last 10 days and I still don't grasp half of the collecting ram hides, blood etc. nonsense

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(swap ram/wolf riders as appropriate:)

To get your ten lvl 60 elite Wolf riders

You need to gather 25 Ram Hides from the opposing half

You need to tame 25 Wolves from near your base

The Wolf Riders will either patrol the valley below Snowfall when released, or can be ordered to attack the enemy, whereby they'll ride towards their base by a certain route-- useless for helping cap SH, often, but useful after that.

If their leader dies, they always charge.

You need to stop them being kited to their NPCs and keep an eye out for attempts to do so.

The guy you hand in to will vanish once they're done, and respawn a while later. This can be done a total 3 times/game, as far as I understand.

Same thing applies to the Elemental lords. Keep them buffed and healed and stop them being kited and they're awesome. Otherwise, against a good side, they're useless.

Make sure you escort the Wing Commanders back properly. Commander's Flesh hand-in, especially, is worth TONS of rep, for everyone in the Raid.

The 'strategy' is just:

Ride to each flag in turn, fight AT that flag, cap it, AoE, sit tight, move on. Ignore Allies.

Usually it goes: Icewing Bunker, SH GY (+SF GY double cap), Balinda, SH Bunker, SP GY, North Bunker, South Bunker, Aid Station, WIN!

If, say, you're heading for SH in force, they'll be fighting you outside those buildings with loads of NPCs. You may get close to the GY but be pushed back. Consider:

1) Get the team to focus on killing NPCs ONLY, allies are just going to respawn, so why bother?

2) When you get pushed back to the top of the ramp, the allies will keep pushing and may even push you back to the FoS. FoS is stalemate death, never let your side fight there.... solution: tell them to wait for a few res-waves at the GY, then ride in force WEST of Balinda's bunker and up the other side. You will often make it straight to the SH flag, kite the NPCs, CAP IT and then fight to hold.

Exact same works for SP. You push up the road, but it becomes a stalemate near SP itself, in that narrow bit. Let the allies push you back along the road a bit, then lead a sizeable force riding the high road, drop in, and cap the GY from behind.

Remember: Why ever fight the allies before you've capped- they're respawning closer to the wherever you're fighting than you are at that point, so will ALWAYS win. Once you cap the GY to grey, even, they dont respawn there, THEN kill them. If you can get SH and SF together (pretty easy, since SF takes 2 people) they're respawning at SP, and it's pretty much GG then.

The above two points apply to almost every cap. E.g. with bunkers - kite NPCs out, kill them, ride right in up to flag -> cap -> kill allies.

Oh and more generally. This is the mass PvP tactic of choice: Healers HAVE to heal the warriors, warriors charge, intim shout, everyone else rushes in, AoE. Win. Rogues sapping and otherwise mezzing/killing their healers, interrupting channeling mages, etc. If your warriors wont make semi-suicidal charges to break up the enemy, your groups will just end up hurling spells at each other for hours.

[therealjohnpeat]

Your comments about how AV is a fight against NPCs and not the enemy players make sense - but again and again I see people avoiding NPCs and attacking the players DESPITE the fact they will just keep coming back over and over wheras the NPCs, I assume, don't all respawn - at least not within 30 secs!!

The riders are more a defense mechanism really - if you're being pushed back they can slow it down until you regroup - but I see them being used for attacks which they just don't work for as they avoid most of the places you'd want em to go - and even when they are in the right place - they arent actually much use..

The Wing Commanders are more useful but it seems rare that they are summoned at "just the right time" - but even with them it just takes too-damned-long to get the game to it's end...

Overall - AV's problem is the time factor. I've scanned the web for guides and hints and EVERY one I've read comments on the fact that few people who enter at the start will make it to the end unless something very unusual happens...

I think there must be some issue with the queues as well - I joined up last night a few times and played for a short while but I was having mod/lag issues and so /afked out to reset the game/mods a couple of times.

When I finally rejoined after midnight a "/who valley" showed 38 players - and 50 mins later I was still queued despite people I knew in the BG saying it was 38/40 to the Alliance and no-one had entered or left in quite some time - erm...

Whatever tho - with some tightening and some more 'appreciable' progress to an ending, I think you could mould a decent BG out of AV - but as it is, it's just a horrible timesink which just drags on and on and on...

I'm not talking about making it into a quick-fire BG like AB - but capping it to ensure completion (based on territory held or whatever) in around 3-4 hours would be a GREAT start!!!!!

[Mr Ben]

Problem with Horde side Draenor, is no-one heals! I'm amazed every time I go in AV, that I'm the only person healing other players. Very rarely you'll get a druid helping now and then, but thats it. I never see a priest healing.

Marshala should be praised for rallying the Horde on more than 2 seperate AV battles, where the Alliance were literally at our base and ready for the win, but we pushed them back all the way to THAT sodding bridge! Unfortunately it was too late in the night by then, so Alliance won by default as usual.

God I hate that the map is so imbalanced. It literally takes hours to get across that bridge, and then they send one wave of npc's at us and we're back at the graveyard

[therealjohnpeat]

Probably worth posting my 'personal attack plan' - just so you can laugh.

Assuming I'm not asked to defend anywhere or collect anything, I just pile upto the front and find a good vantage point to start Volleying and Multi-Shotting anything which moves (pref. the cloth wearers!) - picking out NPCs and kiting em with my pet if I can.

I don't in ANY way mind dying - I view myself as a movable artillery and I'll happily keep blasting away until I run out of mana - when, if I'm still alive, I'll retreat a bit and drink up (those expensive AV bottles!!) - and if not, well it's a free mana-up and pet rez!!

I love watching the reaction of the enemy as some players seem dead-scared of AOEs and it's possible to scatter them with a volley which, in truth, does very little damage (but tags lots of things for Honour!) - but I need more practice at clipping-and-kiting the melee who will eventually charge-in to spoil my fun.

Heals are nice - but in truth, I tend to upset large contingents of people and so I'm happy to leave the healers to handle the melee.

After a while you can tell who's written the "/target vurt" macro tho - and so I'll hang-back for a while/hand in my finds /pick-off NPCs or something else until their Rogue/Druid hit-squad stops making it their sole-duty to gank me into the stone-age - or, if no progress has been made in the time I've been there - I'll just /afk and do something else entirely.

I don't get a lot of drops tho - simply because I'm too-far from the corpses by-and-large to loot em - I've still not done the first Gnome and Dwarf 'bits' hand-ins which are worth the most honour!

I know this isn't the usual approach taken by Hunters - I see many others hanging back - tentatively stepping up to attack and then flinching back behind 'the armour' - but apart from upping your overall "Killing Blows" this seems a less useful approach to me.

Rez-charge-blaze-mana out-die-Rez...

[RJames]

Problem with Horde side Draenor, is no-one heals! I'm amazed every time I go in AV, that I'm the only person healing other players. Very rarely you'll get a druid helping now and then, but thats it. I never see a priest healing.

Marshala should be praised for rallying the Horde on more than 2 seperate AV battles, where the Alliance were literally at our base and ready for the win, but we pushed them back all the way to THAT sodding bridge! Unfortunately it was too late in the night by then, so Alliance won by default as usual.

God I hate that the map is so imbalanced. It literally takes hours to get across that bridge, and then they send one wave of npc's at us and we're back at the graveyard 

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Most Alliance say the same about the Horde base.

The Alliance base is easy. You know you can jump into the North bunker from behind?

Either:

Kite all the NPCs out of North bunker to SP GY, kill them there and then just ALL zerg on mounts, straight into the north bunker up and in (you can ride THROUGH people you know, esp when they're feared! Why ever fight allies on the bridge??)

Or:

Have some rogues and druids go round the back of north bunker, jump in, clear the NPCs inside whilst you pretend to fight on the bridge, then Zerg in as above.

Once we also cleared the south bunker via pet pulls whilst fighting on the bridge too- then when our push for north was resisted and it had 30 allies inside, we just waltzed into the south bunker. Hehehe.

If people are fighting allies, TRJP, SHOUT AT THEM IN /RA TO STOP BEING IDIOTS (in a nice persuasive, charming, leader, way).

[RJames]

Probably worth posting my 'personal attack plan' - just so you can laugh.

Assuming I'm not asked to defend anywhere or collect anything, I just pile upto the front and find a good vantage point to start Volleying and Multi-Shotting anything which moves (pref. the cloth wearers!) - picking out NPCs and kiting em with my pet if I can.

I don't in ANY way mind dying - I view myself as a movable artillery and I'll happily keep blasting away until I run out of mana - when, if I'm still alive, I'll retreat a bit and drink up (those expensive AV bottles!!) - and if not, well it's a free mana-up and pet rez!!

I love watching the reaction of the enemy as some players seem dead-scared of AOEs and it's possible to scatter them with a volley which, in truth, does very little damage (but tags lots of things for Honour!) - but I need more practice at clipping-and-kiting the melee who will eventually charge-in to spoil my fun.

Heals are nice - but in truth, I tend to upset large contingents of people and so I'm happy to leave the healers to handle the melee.

After a while you can tell who's written the "/target vurt" macro tho - and so I'll hang-back for a while/hand in my finds /pick-off NPCs or something else until their Rogue/Druid hit-squad stops making it their sole-duty to gank me into the stone-age - or, if no progress has been made in the time I've been there - I'll just /afk and do something else entirely.

I don't get a lot of drops tho - simply because I'm too-far from the corpses by-and-large to loot em - I've still not done the first Gnome and Dwarf 'bits' hand-ins which are worth the most honour!

I know this isn't the usual approach taken by Hunters - I see many others hanging back - tentatively stepping up to attack and then flinching back behind 'the armour' - but apart from upping your overall "Killing Blows" this seems a less useful approach to me.

Rez-charge-blaze-mana out-die-Rez...

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Not being afraid of dying is very important - esp. for warrior charges as mentioned above.

Obv any spines, etc., handed in are shared by everyone anyway, you just miss the city bonus honour. But yeah, do each once at least!

Honour is shared by everyone in the raid anywhere near the fighting. Tagging makes zero difference.

If you're leaving before winning you're losing a huge amount of Rep. You get about 600+ for winning. Very inefficient!

[therealjohnpeat]

If you're leaving before winning you're losing a huge amount of Rep. You get about 600+ for winning. Very inefficient!

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To my knowledge I've yet to leave a game we've gone on to win

I have only 2 'win/lose doodahs' - from 2 losses obv. - a 3rd would be nice to make a set frankly

[RJames]

To my knowledge I've yet to leave a game we've gone on to win

I have only 2 'win/lose doodahs' - from 2 losses obv. - a 3rd would be nice to make a set frankly

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Doh, you need to get your guild in, and kick the Horde into shape!

As far as I understand, WoW-wide, Horde do much better in places like AV, on average... so sort it out!

-J

[pompey88]

Wait until you get the epic staff John, then people really do have a target macro!

[therealjohnpeat]

AV really outshone itself tonight...

Coupla guildies tell me the game is on it's last legs - Alliance all in Horde base etc. - so I think

a ) I can test my new PvP Targetting Mod a bit

b ) I can get that last token I need for the "3 of each" handin

So I enter - and it's 25 Alliance vs 17 Horde - and Horde are leaving in droves...

and....

1 hour later - despite the Horde being at least 6-7 people down constantly, the Alliance have not moved 1 inch...

Several attempts at the towers are thwarted - npcs are respawning

I mean - for fucks sake, this isn't a game, it's sheer-unbelievable-boredom - with visual effects- anyone who can sit back, having 'designed' this joke-of-a-thing and say "well, that's a good job done" needs a kicking...

[Mr Ben]

Aye, I just left cos I couldnt be arsed playing on in the vague hope of losing soon. I got college in the morning ffs

[RJames]

AV really outshone itself tonight...

Coupla guildies tell me the game is on it's last legs - Alliance all in Horde base etc. - so I think

a ) I can test my new PvP Targetting Mod a bit

b ) I can get that last token I need for the "3 of each" handin

So I enter - and it's 25 Alliance vs 17 Horde  - and Horde are leaving in droves...

and....

1 hour later - despite the Horde being at least 6-7 people down constantly, the Alliance have not moved 1 inch...

Several attempts at the towers are thwarted - npcs are respawning

I mean - for fucks sake, this isn't a game, it's sheer-unbelievable-boredom - with visual effects- anyone who can sit back, having 'designed' this joke-of-a-thing and say "well, that's a good job done" needs a kicking...

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And Ben 'in the hope of losing soon'... ya noobs.

As mentioned above, Horde frequently WINS from having Alliance in their base, at least on our server. Stop trying to lose and start fighting back.

On our realm forums some alliance once requested that whichever side gets forced into their base should give up to save time... hahaha, as if!

That's cos when we're at their base, they ALWAYS LOSE, when they're at ours, we still win 80% of the time

Horde ftw!

[sir stiff_one]

Sounds BRILLIANT!!

[RJames]

Sounds BRILLIANT!!

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It's awesome, played properly.

It sucks when tried to play for maximised honour/rep/tokens/let's get this over with by losing...

And this is all coming from a class that REALLY sucks in AV!

We're planning to try and get 20 of our guild on vent in a game this weekend... for total alliance ownage B)

[sir stiff_one]

With a decent team it must admittedly be acetastic. Especially on voice comms. Though you can say the same of most things.

I do wonder if we took our best 40 into AV whether we'd just steamroll through it.

[therealjohnpeat]

As mentioned above, Horde frequently WINS from having Alliance in their base, at least on our server. Stop trying to lose and start fighting back.

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You see - I think that really is the problem with AV - that no matter how far one side has progressed, it's possible for the other to keep nicking back GYs etc. and generally prolong the game forever...

That game in particular - the Alliance had an 8 man advantage and were inside our base and after an hour they'd achieved absolutely nothing. The Horde had launched no counterattacks (which would only have slowed the Alliance further) and yet it was still a tiresome stalemate.

Hell, I've played WoW for 8 hours straight a few times - I've done 5+ hour raids more than twice - but the idea of playing an evenly-matched AV from start-to-end is just unthinkable

When you design something like AV, you have to create a game that, with 2 evenly matched teams, is still winnable within a reasonable timeframe - and AV just isn't.

Bear in mind that, on Draenor at least, you're talking the same 'core' of players on both sides in 90% of games so it's not like there's good and bad. It seems to me that games are won and lost either

a ) because 1 side manages to attract more skilled and well equipped players

b ) because 1 side keeps their numbers up longer than the other as the night goes on

AB is SO much more enjoyable but a bit 'quickfire' - something inbetween would be quite nice tho I think.

AV is a nice place to be and there are some good ideas in there - but the overall 'game' is crap...

[RJames]

I'd probably agree with you about the evenly matched teams/timeframe thing -- but evenly matched teams just never happens.

I also reiterate I think skill and equipment have an extremely minor impact compared to overall strategy.

Do all your matches end with people quitting? As I've said, we regularly start a 40 vs 40 game, and win, still on 40 vs 40 in under 2 hrs.

Stiff: If you took 40 remotely half decent guildies in, even from levels 55-60, you'd win EASILY if you were all on Vent. It's so much about coordination more than combat.

The hardest thing would be all getting in, since you can't join AV 'as group' anymore...

[Huggybear]

I think AV's the best of the BGs really.

On Defias Horde sometimes wins in as short a time as an hour and a half, usually matches take about 3 hours. So far Horde has only lost once, and won, oh, about four AVs a day for as long as it's been up (fairly new server though)...

The key here is trying hard not to be selfish, and co-operation. I use 90% of my mana for healing, and I'm a shadow priest. When I run oom I either sit and drink if possible, or do a semi-suicidal charge, running into the Alliance ranks and Fearing them (and 80% of the time I make it back alive because I get healed/helped). I gather wolves as well.

In AB or WSG you got your choice of about two or three different fixed Alliance honor farming teams, and for this reason they're just not fun (at 60 that is... at 10-49, and 50-59 to some extent as well, Alliance come in pick up groups like we Hordies so it's more balanced... ie. Horde wins 80% of the time)

[Aleph]

I'd probably agree with you about the evenly matched teams/timeframe thing -- but evenly matched teams just never happens.

I also reiterate I think skill and equipment have an extremely minor impact compared to overall strategy.

Do all your matches end with people quitting? As I've said, we regularly start a 40 vs 40 game, and win, still on 40 vs 40 in under 2 hrs.

Stiff: If you took 40 remotely half decent guildies in, even from levels 55-60, you'd win EASILY if you were all on Vent. It's so much about coordination more than combat.

The hardest thing would be all getting in, since you can't join AV 'as group' anymore...

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I'd go one further. We had 5 guys out of 40 from our guild on voice coms. not the most ballanced party (2 wars, rogue hunter shammy). We were in the main raid and instructed the rest of the players.

Balinda was dead inside of 3 mins of the game starting

Every capture /recapture of a GY / Bunker etc. Was done by our players.

Wolf riders were got up by our players.

game finished in 2 1/2 hours. Horde win.

Moral - As long as one team know what they're doing and you can direct the Zerg, you will win. It only takes one player on an epic mount to kite 10 NPC defenders away from a flag. With the exception of the general, none of the elites are tough enough to withstand a decent party.

Word.

[Spudulis]

I scanned this thread before venturing into AV and it was all gibberish! But having spent a bit of time in there now it has to be said I really enjoy it. I like the fact you can go in for an hour and each time I've done that I've had a sense of achievement as the hiorde have made progress (do the Alliance ever win on ER?) I've yet to stick it out till the bitter end but I do really enjoy it. I tend to heal and you can really see the difference it can make with a small team and a healer or two you can take out a number of enemies (Alliance or NPC) quite easily.

I don't think Blizz ever intended it to be something that 1 person could do from start to finish and it does have more of a feel of a real battle rather than a game like WSG and AB.

Anyway having re-read this thread there are some really good tips so thanks guys I will have to go and put them in action to PWN them damn Allies.

[Mr Ben]

I tend to heal and you can really see the difference it can make with a small team and a healer or two you can take out a number of enemies (Alliance or NPC) quite easily.

I don't think Blizz ever intended it to be something that 1 person could do from start to finish and it does have more of a feel of a real battle rather than a game like WSG and AB.

Anyway having re-read this thread there are some really good tips so thanks guys I will have to go and put them in action to PWN them damn Allies.

This is what I did before I hit exalted, and even when we were losing, I managed to keep enough people up and alive to stall the Alliance for a long time while we still tried to get as much rep as possible. Trouble was, a lot of people play AV on Draenor like its a WSG or AB game but on a larger scale, and that just wont work really. AV is like a normal PvE raid, but against another team, so every class needs to work together like they would in a PvE raid. Unfortunately, not everyone does, and this is what normally loses the game for Horde.

[George Clooney]

From looking at the official forums, it seems like horde win mainly on ALL servers (pretty much anyway, there are the odd exception). There's also a rather lengthy post on there about why the map is biased towards the horde, i havent really looked at it enough to see if its true, or had enough experience to see if it's ignoring the horde perspective.

AB is better anyway. I've had some really close games on that which have been just amazing (and to counter Ranting James, the horde usually get whooped )

[Spudulis]

Best AV ever last night. I joined a game that had been going for 10 hours at about 10:45 last night. As I joinmed I was confronted in a big battle with Ivus in the tunnel. We swiftly dispatched him then went on a mad surge taking Frostwolf, then it was a nonstop ride to snowfall, stoneheart, stormpike, southern bunker, first aid station and finally killing the boss guy. We won at 11:45! It was awesome everyone was just buzzing when we did it.

The way we did it was to all stick together and zerg as a group. As soon as a GY was taken we were on to the next and never fought on the way only at the GYs. The Alliance never had a chance to regroup.

Absolutely brilliant fun. Can't imagine how gutting it muct have been for teh Alliance to go from near win to loss in an hour though. Ha Ha