Sport The Formula 1 Thread

[p1nseeker]

Picking up on Bernie's comments during his Eddie Jordan interview. He said the 20 gp's next year "is enough" meaning that this will be the maximum number of races. Now with Austin coming along in 2012 this would imply that one of the existing circuits will need to be dropped.

Now call me cynical but I can’t see him dropping one of the dull as dishwater circuits that line his pockets so thoroughly *cough* Bahrain *splutter* Valencia *cough*.

I’m dreading Spa or Canada getting the chop :s

[JPR]

Picking up on Bernie's comments during his Eddie Jordan interview. He said the 20 gp's next year "is enough" meaning that this will be the maximum number of races. Now with Austin coming along in 2012 this would imply that one of the existing circuits will need to be dropped.

Now call me cynical but I can’t see him dropping one of the dull as dishwater circuits that line his pockets so thoroughly *cough* Bahrain *splutter* Valencia *cough*.

I’m dreading Spa or Canada getting the chop :s

Well Brundle was saying on the F1 forum that he's heard there's no chance for an Austin GP, which I think would be a shame as the proposed layout looks really good. I hope Bernie's learnt by now about dropping Spa or Canada, especially if we don't go to Austin, at least Silverstone has a long contract now. There was talk that China could pull out and there's also been question raised about Hungary so if those where to make way it wouldn't be such a loss. I'd love to see Valencia dropped, though it's bloody awful and adds nothing to the sport. Whilst Bahrain isn't the most exciting I think there's at least a chance something could be made of it, as it does seem the people running it are doing it for the motorsport and they want to build something there. One worry is when the talk of the Rome GP started, I saw talk of it being made the Italian GP and Monza being dropped, which I hope was just crazy talk as it would be horrible to see.

[marsh]

Is that Bernie actually saying '20 GP's is enough cash in my pockets because I'd have to pay more tax/buy more wheelbarrows/buy a bigger vault etc etc'

That man's such a turd, I like him to a certain degree but people read so much into everything that the toad utters.

Isn't his daughter taking over his empire at some point?

Thing that fucks me off is that there are perfectly serviceable racetracks all over the globe that we never go to because Tilke and his henchmen get the nod to build something new and boring. A logistical nightmare I'm sure, but anyone fancy a return to the ring? Watkins Glenn? Laguna Seca? Zandvort? the list I'm sure could become fairly endless.

[p1nseeker]

I've heard the A-1 ring in Austria is getting a refurb but will only be used for DTM

[JPR]

It's all getting a bit strange with Lotus or not as the case may be Proton and Group Lotus don't seem to like Fernandes buying the Team Lotus name and running under that, so it seems we could end up with them not being Lotus next season. But the Lotus name has been split like this for a long time so it does seem that Fernandes has a right to use the name I'd have thought. I also thought he had some government backing, so with Proton being government owned it almost seems as if they're fighting themselves. I've read that apparently the guy now in charge of Lotus wants to turn it in to the Malaysian Ferrari with an F1 team, their recent link up with the ART GP2 team would add to that. I'd have thought this would all be sorted out before we got into the position of two Lotus F1 teams, be funny if not though.

[SF-02]

A lot of the blame for dull new tracks is the FIA's very restrictive safety rules for new tracks. I hope that with Jean Todt in charge that may change. It's the lack of elevation that really hurts new tracks.

Bahrain has an outer circuit with high speed corners that should be given a shot but wont due to FIA safety and lap length restrictions. lot's of tracks could be altered to make them faster. Getting rid of the rubbish last chicane at catalunya and restoring the high speed corner would be a start, as would sorting out the first corner chicane.

[sandman]

Well, I've been watching F1 since the early 80s and I can't recall a more boring championship than this one. Overtaking has all but dissapeared and everyone tries to get excited about pit changes and tyre strategies because the actual driving is a procession and not much different from a traffic jam on the M25.

Removing refuelling of cars is the worst decision the sport has ever made. A few drivers (well, Hamilton and Kubica, maybe Webber now and again) are still at least trying to give us a bit of excitement but in the main the sport has lost all its sense of risk and reward.

Any chance of refuelling going back in?

[morcs]

Yep, it's not refuelling, it's aero.

Restrict aero and F1 is no longer the pinnacle of motorsport. Don't restrict aero and you make overtaking very difficult.

I'd say rain, and KERS (or specifically the fact that some had KERS and some didn't) were the main factors in overtaking last year.

[mexos]

Well, I've been watching F1 since the early 80s and I can't recall a more boring championship than this one.

[Shimmyhill]

Refuelling was what made F1 dull for years and let clowns like Schumacher win so many titles as he had the best tactician behind him

[Paradigm]

Refuelling's rubbish! This year's been vintage.

[McSpeed]

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure what has made this year's championship so exciting. I'm still not sure about the ban on refueling, but the tyre rules sure seem to have helped (although they're a bit complicated). Having some really good drivers (not talking about nice here) in the best cars (namely, the 5 championship leaders) is a good thing too.

The tracks are still my main concern. Half (possibly even more) of the tracks are Tilke creations (if only in part), and races there simply aren't interesting providing the conditions are fairly normal. Looking at Spa, it's a different story.

[totov]

I thought up until a few races ago it was all very exciting, but the last few races have been a bit quieter. I'm sure it will pick back up again though. As a F1 newbie this year, it's been great to get into it. Not sure that's because of the rules and regs this specific year or just because I didn't know what I was missing out on before that. Either way, I'm hooked now.

[morcs]

How many overtakes at Spa, Monza, Interlagos etc. haven't been influenced by rain though?

By influenced I'm including situations where cars were out of their normal position due to wet qualifying as well.

[sandman]

Refuelling's rubbish! This year's been vintage.

How on earth is this a vintage year? Its fucking awful and most worringly boring. Compare this season to the 1992, 1987, 1991, 1990, 2008, 1994 or 1997 seasons. Its poor compared to other less exciting seasons (2004 anyone) and I really do not see how anyone can call it vintage.

[JPR]

I actually think the tyres are one of the problems, part of the reason Canada was great was due to the tyres falling apart so quickly. Most of the time though you can go pretty far on them and if the rules allowed you could go without a stop at many races. Which leads to the drivers being pretty in synch with tyre wear most of the time, so we don't often get cases like Kubica on Sunday where he's on much fresher rubber compared to others around him. I wasn't a fan of the tyre wars last time round, but now we have more competitive cars and drivers able to compete in them I think an aggressive tyre war would have been much better than just another single supplier.

I think one of the biggest problems are the engine rules. I want to see a driver being able to push his engine the whole race and every race, not having to worry about the future mileage. I know it keeps costs down but I think it detracts from the sport, a championship contender shouldn't have to be worrying about engine use coming into the last few races of the season. The reduced rev limits likely don't help either, so often we hear the drivers bouncing off the limiter, we may have plenty of long straights but it's hard for drivers to take advantage of them. I'd also like to see the teams being made to run enough fuel to get to the end of the race running flat out, but like a few rules that have been brought in it doesn't really fit in with the engine limits. Hopefully new engine rules will help in this area.

[morcs]

I still think it all boils down to aerodynamics.

In my opinion changes in tyre, refuelling, KERS etc. will always aid overtaking for a while, because you'll have variations in performance between the cars. Eventually though the teams will learn how to use the tyres to their best, or will all develop KERS, and you'll end up once again with a level playing field.

Once that settles, one car following an equal one simply can't get close enough to overtake because of the loss of downforce.

I think the only other way you could shake things up would be to do something to introduce variations between the cars at different points in the race. Something like making the odd positions start on soft tyres and the evens on hards (so they still run the same tyres just at different points in the race). You'd always get complaints of unfairness though.

[Christoph84]

Brakes are an issue as well. The braking distances are so short, that if you're only a few percent better than the other guy, that isn't enough distance to effect an overtaking maneuver. They should fuck carbon discs in the bin*

*This will never happen.

[JPR]

I think the only other way you could shake things up would be to do something to introduce variations between the cars at different points in the race. Something like making the odd positions start on soft tyres and the evens on hards (so they still run the same tyres just at different points in the race). You'd always get complaints of unfairness though.

I've never been keen on things like this and reversed grids etc, just seems a fake way of creating competition. Bringing ground effects back though as has been suggested for 2013 could help, as the biggest problem is the dirty air.

[morcs]

Yeah I agree. Not sure how they're going to do it without killing people though!

Basically ground effect disappears if the car lifts (for example when going over a bump).

[JPR]

Yeah I agree. Not sure how they're going to do it without killing people though!

Basically ground effect disappears if the car lifts (for example when going over a bump).

That's the easy part, Bernie just drops all the old tracks and has a calendar full of newly built tracks that have written out a nice big cheque for him, all in the name of safety. Which sadly doesn't seem that far fetched.

[wev]

Wouldn't they be running with wings etc to create aerodynamic down force aswell?

[morcs]

Wouldn't they be running with wings etc to create aerodynamic down force aswell?

They'd probably use the rules to reduce wing downforce and make it up with ground effect (otherwise the whole point of using ground effect to make it easier to follow would be void).

[JPR]

Wouldn't they be running with wings etc to create aerodynamic down force aswell?

I'd have thought so. I don't know how it all works but maybe you can find that balance where you get enough grip form ground effects to overcome the dirty air, but still enough grip to keep the car from flipping.

[wev]

That was how I was what I was thinking really. So long as there's no sliding skirts.

[morcs]

It's not really flipping as such. It's more that the corner you could do at 150mph last lap you can now only do at 70mph because you took a different line on entry and hit a bump. (Although flipping is a worry as well!)

[rafaqat]

They cut off the best bit of the ferrari mechanic headbutting the glass panel.

oh that was on the Official Formula 1 website race highlights. Funny as fuck.

[Shimmyhill]

I think one of the biggest problems are the engine rules. I want to see a driver being able to push his engine the whole race and every race, not having to worry about the future mileage. I know it keeps costs down but I think it detracts from the sport, a championship contender shouldn't have to be worrying about engine use coming into the last few races of the season. The reduced rev limits likely don't help either, so often we hear the drivers bouncing off the limiter, we may have plenty of long straights but it's hard for drivers to take advantage of them. I'd also like to see the teams being made to run enough fuel to get to the end of the race running flat out, but like a few rules that have been brought in it doesn't really fit in with the engine limits. Hopefully new engine rules will help in this area.

Thats nothing to do with RPM limits its the gearing of the car, it will only hit the limiter if the gearing allows it to. Being able to run different rev limits within a defined top limit is good as it means if you have a stronger engine you can keep to top limit and potential have an advantage over teams who turn the wick down later in the race to save the engine!

Brakes are an issue as well. The braking distances are so short, that if you're only a few percent better than the other guy, that isn't enough distance to effect an overtaking maneuver. They should fuck carbon discs in the bin*

*This will never happen.

Steel brakes would be hilarious on a modern F1 car but will never happen as completely unsafe at speeds F1 cars do and amount of braking over such a long time. There isnt much you can do in the braking area to improve competition as aids are gone etc. Some drivers still have a huge advantage on braking so i thing the brakes are a non issue really.

[Sidewaysbob]

This year has been good, because you're never sure who's going to win. Redbull have been fast but have lost races due mainly to their own cocking around. Ferrari lost the plot then found it again, and Hamilton has gone out and either spanked it or got clunked and ended up in the armco. Button has been consistent and make some great racing calls at the right moment.

There are Five drivers in with a real shout with Four races to go ! When was the last time that happened. All those Ferrari/Schumacher years and it was Him verses either Hakkinen or Hill or Alonso or more usually himself. So to have three teams and 5 drivers in with a good shout for the cup and no real favorite, makes this a classic year for me.

Also the BBC have done a great job with the production. The Forum is fantastic. Eddie and Coulthard winding each other up, the only black mark is Legard but i listen to the five live commentary and Davidson has been brilliant all year long. There has been overtaking at races where drivers have been out of position, But remember if you have qualifying where the grid lines up in fastest driver order, they should be no over taking. That's just a fact of life. Yes there are some fucking awful track, but throw in rain or Webber getting all lairy and the excitement ramps up.

I though Monza was a great race because watching F1 cars really nailing it is fantastic to watch.

There is a lot of talk about the 80's and 90's being classic years and there were classic years in there. But what about the year Mclaren won everything except Monza. or the Year Ferrari and Mickey won everything. The Mansell year he won by a country mile or the years where anything with a Honda engine was going to win. I truly believe we're in a golden age right now with some great drivers with great teams. If you don't like Alonso then there's Webber or Button, I think Hamilton is brilliant. but i appreciate that they are all at the top of their game right now.

Sure tracks like Bahrain and Valencia are shit full stop, but i like Turkeys turn 8. Malaysia always has the chance of rain, I'm not sure about Yas Marina, but i like the long straight and driving into the night. You never know Korea looks interesting if it's finished and the US track has potential.

Besides, there is always the Le Mans and America Le Mans series to watch and go to, which are a gazillion times cheaper and more relaxed. There's been some great racing there this year. Le Mans was a Classic and the Petit Le Mans Race at Road Atlanta looks like being another cracker this weekend.

Motor Sport in general has been superb this year.

Remember, you could be restricted to a diet of NASCAR

[marsh]

Thats nothing to do with RPM limits its the gearing of the car, it will only hit the limiter if the gearing allows it to. Being able to run different rev limits within a defined top limit is good as it means if you have a stronger engine you can keep to top limit and potential have an advantage over teams who turn the wick down later in the race to save the engine!

Steel brakes would be hilarious on a modern F1 car but will never happen as completely unsafe at speeds F1 cars do and amount of braking over such a long time. There isnt much you can do in the braking area to improve competition as aids are gone etc. Some drivers still have a huge advantage on braking so i thing the brakes are a non issue really.

Er, don't indycars still run with steel discs?