The 3D Thread

[fatbob]

Hey man, applied to Ruffian today. Mentioned that you could back up me being hardworking and passionate if needed from our days together in the uni era

I applied to them a couple of months back with the environment test, I didn't presume to name drop Ryan though!

They said they were full after a week or two, but it could just be that I wasn't good enough. I'm sure your experience will count for you.

[Rossco]

Right, I was looking again at that Ruffian test the other day and realised one major issue I have with texturing. I have no idea how to go about setting up one 1024x1024 texture map for that building. I know how to UV map etc but it's never been taught very much in uni so my knowledge is just basic and I really don't know how to UV map properly for games.

I know for games you have to set up maps as 512, 1024, 2048 etc resolution and I try to stick to that when I'm texturing myself but to do that one building as one texture like that obviously UVs are going to have to overlap etc and I don't know how to go about it. Can anyone help or link me to some good tutorials or books they know of that teach good principals of texturing for games.

[Kakihara]

I used to work at Evolution Studios with the guy who wrote this book. I've not read it myself but it gets good reviews on Amazon. (bear in mind that some of these reviews are from his co-workers )

It's written specifically about modelling for games and even has a chapter on portfolios and interviews.

[utero2001]

I applied to them a couple of months back with the environment test, I didn't presume to name drop Ryan though!

They said they were full after a week or two, but it could just be that I wasn't good enough. I'm sure your experience will count for you.

hiya, just got back to this thread, rllmuk really is starting to lose its charm over the last year or so

anyways

Ruffian is currently full on art positions, but I would say keep tabs on our website, if and when we go onto new projects in the future we may expand, so I would try and keep sending them e-mails every month or so to show your really interested in a position. Its a great company to work for, everyone's really down to earth and loving what their doing.

Also I thought the Ruffian art test is a great practice piece, and something that you could show to other potential employers on your portfolio in the future.

[Capwn]

Yeah Ruffian got back in touch and said they were currently full but would keep me on record. At least they got back in touch and as Ryan says it's not like the art test was a waste of time as it's something for the portfolio. It's quite unique in that it shows that you're able to think about optimizing, though I wouldn't have anything else like it in your portfolio as most companies are looking for work that is much more current gen, even next gen (if such a thing exists).

Right, I was looking again at that Ruffian test the other day and realised one major issue I have with texturing. I have no idea how to go about setting up one 1024x1024 texture map for that building. I know how to UV map etc but it's never been taught very much in uni so my knowledge is just basic and I really don't know how to UV map properly for games.

I know for games you have to set up maps as 512, 1024, 2048 etc resolution and I try to stick to that when I'm texturing myself but to do that one building as one texture like that obviously UVs are going to have to overlap etc and I don't know how to go about it. Can anyone help or link me to some good tutorials or books they know of that teach good principals of texturing for games.

If you make one 1024x1024 texture you'll have to place cuts all over the building for your tiling textures. I used 5 tiling textures (4x256, 1x512) and one map for random bits such as signs/atm etc.

Simple rule of thumb is that any tiling wall texture needs to be one single map. Why? Imagine a large wall that is just a square plane. You can map a tiling texture on it and fill the wall with no cuts. However if the tiling texture is a little square in a 1024 you'll have to make cuts so that the wall is subdivided into squares.

You can also have a tiling trim texture map with rows of trims that tile. Same theory as above applies

Update on my hearse, just need to add zbrush deco/micronormals now

[utero2001]

looking really good, for a game asset though does it really need more detail added through Z-brush?

but a good texture on that and it would look great

[Capwn]

looking really good, for a game asset though does it really need more detail added through Z-brush?

Here is my main ref...

The smaller deco I've managed to do with photoshop but for the larger stuff it will look too flat if I use the same method. I'm just about to do some tests today, if I pull it off I may need to make loads more cuts so will have to make a decision if to work on this as a current gen or next gen (if such a thing exists) piece. Most of my portfolio modeling is current/last gen, I need to show I have potential of producing assets for years to come.

Whole thing was inspired by an ex streamline studios guy, his stuff is just SCARY, he's really 'next gen' and beyond.

http://www.ilyanedyal.com

Also Rossco, congrats on finishing your prison. Sure there are flaws but for a Uni project you've gone beyond the call of duty. Look forward to seeing more.

[Capwn]

Viewport render WIP

Adding deco now...

[Capwn]

Having way too much fun here...

Just about done, getting ready for texture pass. Going to wait a day or so for feedback just incase there is anything quick I can fix before doing final renders.

[Number 28]

I still feel strongly about the roof. The more hi-fi the rest becomes, the more it leaps out at me. Just a few more polys won't hurt!

[Nicky]

yeah, get some more divisions into that point on the top and lose it. You're missing a texture aplique to the side of the seat/trunk on the front between the two columns on the side, although you could get around that extra detail, by using that section as a little windowed "person who did die in this carriage" memo / announcement / berivment letter place thing.

[Capwn]

Mesh finished. Just over 14k.

Made some adjustments based on what you said

[Nicky]

awesome

[Capwn]

At a bit of a dilemma here. I really want to add colour into it but can't because hearses are black for a reason. Was thinking to add flowers on top but that would suggest it's new so I can't chip away at the wood and add dirt etc (which I think I'll need to pop out the details).

[Rossco]

Its looking great. I've never used ZBrush before, is that all normal mapped detail you've added? Love it!

You could try adding some gold trim or something all around it to give it a subtle bit of colour along with the black.

[rundll]

At a bit of a dilemma here. I really want to add colour into it but can't because hearses are black for a reason. Was thinking to add flowers on top but that would suggest it's new so I can't chip away at the wood and add dirt etc (which I think I'll need to pop out the details).

Add dead flowers and twigs. With a skeleton driving. Then it can be aged nicely.

Get to it!!

[Asura]

At a bit of a dilemma here. I really want to add colour into it but can't because hearses are black for a reason. Was thinking to add flowers on top but that would suggest it's new so I can't chip away at the wood and add dirt etc (which I think I'll need to pop out the details).

Hmmm.

As an idea, you could go with artist's black - i.e. do it in a very dark blue, rather than black, and use the dark blue as the darkest shade.

[Nicky]

just do it like it was a newly made hearse, then see whether you need to age it, or get it shot up with bullet holes / tomahawks or go mental and rope-strap some explosive crates of Dynamite to the underside of the carriage.

[Ran]

Looking really nice. I'm so out of touch with proper high end game modelling these days. How would you go about texturing something like that? Would you still unwrap it as per PS2 days? I know some of the high detail is created by normal maps (which I know little about). Are there any other steps when tackling the texture map(s) ?

[Capwn]

Thanks for the comments all!

Yeah I'm planning on adding dead vegetation later. As for methods of finer details it's a combination of normal baking and zbrush. Apart from normals/zbrush it's pretty much the same method of making a vehicle as it was in the PS2 era but just with higher budgets. A few tools have come out to make mapping easier but there still isn't really a magic way of instantly doing it, just new tools that speed things up a little.

Just started the texture pass today, blocked out some colours, still a LONG LONG way to go. Going to try and make it look quite royal with added gold to help break up the black/blue wood. Then bring in lots of scratched away copper to add some warm colours in there. That along with the vegetation should make it more interesting than my original main reference.

[Capwn]

Update :

Bit of a lame screenshot but just a quick WIP. Not really started on the wood yet but starting to add colour shifts and edgework to fabrics and metal. You'll also noticed I've changed the lamps so they now have an interior.

[Number 28]

Can't really see much...is the brightness on your monitor ramped up or something?

[Rossco]

Yeh it's reeeeally dark for me too! Looking good though.

Now that I'm back at uni this week for semester 2, I'm back into full swing design stage for my next project. I had planned previously to do an Italian style piazza with a Ferrari F40 in the middle. I'm now ditching the car as it will be too much work and I've never modelled a car before and I wanna do environments when I leave uni so may as well work on that.

But I'm looking for some general advice on planning out such projects. I always seem to stray from my original plans and make the project bigger than intended, therefore it ends up not looking as good as it could have as I waste so much time changing things and just generally biting off more than I can chew. If anyone has tackled some decent sized environments before and has some good advice I would really appreciate it as this is my last chance to create something like this before I graduate and I want it to be of the best quality possible to hopefully help my job hunt.

I guess my main focus anyway is to keep it quite a small enclosed area compared to my last project. Plan it fully and stick to it. Would most people model everything then texture or model a building, texture it, and move onto the next one? Is it personal preference really or is there a proper workflow that usually works best?

I'm probably rambling a bit but I really want to make sure I get this right.

[Capwn]

Rossco, what's your budgets/timelines?

Generally what is done is you build your entire environment with simple box like modeling and gradually add higher detail passes to it as uniformly as possible. This is done to get a rough idea of how much you can do asap. First of all though I'd spend a few hours just building a photo ref libary of different variations of what you are doing. In this case look up all sorts of piazzas and I'm sure you'll find certain aspects of them stand out as interesting. Ideally you'll have a few photos with interesting elements that you can mix into one new concept and will provide enough ideas to start a simple 3D block out.

It's a good thing you're aware of the dangers of being over ambitious, it's one of the most common flaws I saw (still see) in uni projects. I'd say an interesting 'hero piece' (industry term for something that represents a level and is given a higher budget such as a foodog in an asian level or a largeboat in a seaport level etc) , few props and an extra few bits here and there is enough for a good portfolio piece.

[Rossco]

Well seeing as my course isn't aimed towards video games in particular, they don't give any bugdets for textures, polygon count etc. I'm not sure if I should set one myself or just go wild? The deadline is the first week in May, and it must be made into a two minute showreel at PAL standard. I wish I didn't have to make a two minute video out of it as I don't imagine that would make much difference for a portfolio piece. Game devs would rather see some good high resolution stills of your work wouldn't they? So that loses me some time on modelling/texturing/lighting to set up the video and render it.

I've already been researching hundreds of photographs and I've decided to pretty much copy a specific piazza building for building. I will add some things in though and change it about to suit what I want. I have a 360 degree view photograph of the area to use for reference.

Link to image - it's 8MB

What's your opinion on it? I realise it's still quite large but I'll only be modelling one side of the building really to be viewed from inside the piazza so the workload is reduced greatly. I originally wanted to do more of a street scene rather than a totally enclosed area like this but I think it's quite different and original.

Time to start blocking out the area then. I guess that makes sense too as it allows you to make sure the whole scene works at a glance before wasting time doing the high detail pass and realising it doesn't all fit together as expected.

Thanks for taking the time to help, really appreciate all the comments in this thread.

Hows the hearse coming along by the way?

[smithstock]

Here are the render's of my football stadium that I promised before christmas It's currently textured, but once lit (for both day and night purposes) I will post it up. With everything in the scene (props, mid-res nets and the rest of the model - it's around 50k+ tri's. The stadium itself is 22k tri's. The images originally are at 1080p quality.

I'm currently attempting to get the model in FIFA 10 on PC via Creation Master 10. If anyone has any experience of this, please help I'm been going through German, Spanish and Portugese forums in order to find information on how to convert it.

Cheers,

Jamie

[Number 28]

Link to image - it's 8MB

I realise it's still quite large

Yup. Personally I would shrink it down considerably, focusing on the interesting features from each side, and ditching the more bland repetitive areas. I would half each side, or even 1/3rd of each side...

Saying that...are there corners to this piazza, or are the corners rounded? I'm finding it really difficult to spot more than two obvious corners/bends in the photograph.

[Rossco]

That might make sense actually to scale it down a bit. Yeh it's oval shape as you can see in the attached image from Google map. That was one thing that I wasn't too fond of so I may scale it down and make it square shaped. I think having 4 obvious corners would just make it look better. I can't explain why I think that but in my head it just feels like it would look a better piece.

[Number 28]

No, I agree with you. It makes it a fookload easier to model as well. As soon as you start skewing stuff off the XYZ, making precise movements/extrusions/scales etc can become a nightmare. Unless of course you model everything first, then position it.

[Capwn]

So it's not a specific course for game art but you are wanting to get a job in the games industry right or are you very open to other areas too? If you were wanting to get a job in games I'd not be too worried about sticking to the brief, these courses are run by idiots. No game companies care if you get high marks etc, sometimes they say that a degree is a plus but that's just passing it which is pretty easy. Me and number28 got a first honours on our course, we were of only 3 people on our course that achieved this. In all our applications I'm sure it hasn't made a blind bit of difference. Like you say don't go crazy making a animated scene! so many students have this silly animation of cameras passing through their environments. To learn how to do a proper environment fly through takes a lot of learning, nobody really cares so it's not worth it. People can get an environment artist job with no showreel, infact I'd say in most cases showreels put potential employees off because in most cases it highlights faults and the timing is off. They are forced to look at something for X amount of time. It's worthless unless they need to be judging you on your timing, which they may do if you're going for something like an animator job etc.

Went on a bit there, anyway my hearse has been neglected for about 5 days now. Really need to get back to it but so busy with other crap. Got an interview tomorrow at Frontier so don't think I'll get back to it until Tuesday at earliest. Then I have other crap coming up soon too. Arrrrgh....

edit : about your current project. Not sure until I know more about what you want from it.

smithstock, looking good, curious why you have made cuts for the areas/shapes on the pitch though? Hmmm wonder how the textures for that in football games? Must be a procedural thing (the painted lines I mean) to keep the resolution high. Can't be decals? maybe it can. Confused!