GTA:IV Official Thread

[kerraig UK]

See thats another thing that irks me is that people defend the integrity of GTA's story over its freedom of choice, but so far there is no story! Its another thing i'm quite disappointed about. Early on it seemed like it was gonna be a very tightly scripted game about Russian family values and ties to the old country and stuff, but 20 hours later and characters like Dwayne, Manny, Elizabeta, Francis, Playboy... They have fuck all to do with any story at all. theres been no progression of anything story related for a good 10 hours now. hence why I think the missions could be halved, but lengthened, making the whole experience much more satisfying all round.

I really think I should be a producer on this game

[Guest]

I really think I should be a producer on this game

Well go and do it then. Games companies will take producers who haven't worked in games before.

[Majora]

See thats another thing that irks me is that people defend the integrity of GTA's story over its freedom of choice, but so far there is no story! Its another thing i'm quite disappointed about. Early on it seemed like it was gonna be a very tightly scripted game about Russian family values and ties to the old country and stuff, but 20 hours later and characters like Dwayne, Manny, Elizabeta, Francis, Playboy... They have fuck all to do with any story at all. theres been no progression of anything story related for a good 10 hours now. hence why I think the missions could be halved, but lengthened, making the whole experience much more satisfying all round.

I really think I should be a producer on this game

This is quite an interesting point. I've actually enjoyed the characters and story as it occurs, but when I sit back afterwards and think about it, I struggle to remember what the hell has happened. Half the characters don't really have anything to do with anything, they just come and go within a few missions. For example, I can remember exactly what happened to Elizabeta and Manny, but I can't really think how it ended up progressing the story in any way. It seems like you keep getting phonecalls from people you've met asking you to do missions for them, or directing you to people to do missions for, but they never have much to do with anything really. Once you complete a set of missions, the story usually advances but, at some points at least, it doesn't advance from what you've just done in the missions, but because that's the trigger for the game to move the story along with a different set of missions via a phonecall from someone you previously met. I don't know if that makes any sense....

It's a bit sprawling really. Which makes it feel quite epic and like a big journey, but people come and go so quickly. Which may possibly be intentional, because I do feel a lot of affection when Little Jacob for example ends up popping up in story missions, because he's been with me since the beginning.

I'm always surprised when I'm reminded of the actual point of the story, which is Nico trying to track down some men for revenge. At times it's incredibly far in the background.

[Harry]

I'm always surprised when I'm reminded of the actual point of the story, which is Nico trying to track down some men for revenge. At times it's incredibly far in the background.

I chose not to kill him in the end, does that affect the story at all?

[Talk Show Host]

Ok, after all the good points and bad points have been raised, this would be my one main wish for a future GTA. If i was the producer this would be the one thing I would be aiming towards:

Emergent missions that all adhere to the exact same ruleset.

The fact that the rules change missin to mission, from the bad guy getting away, to him waiting for you to catch up, from people being invincible until a certain point to people being droppable within seconds, from cars dissappearing from where you strategically left them to cars NOT dissappearing. it should be one rule throughout the game. if they say you can call 911 to bring the police to a scene they should let you do it mid mission. If roman gets hurt while you're drinking an ambulance should come patch him up. CONSISTENCY!

I think the game should have the rule that a mission is ONLY failed if your character either dies or is arrested. I know this would take a massive rewrite of the game but I still think it should be that way. Each mission should have 2 or 3 branching points that would make the game infinately replayable.

Example: take the train mission that people had problems with. You SHOULD just be able to meet them at the station, but it should randomise what stop they get off at, encouraging you to follow and stay within sight. if you get too far away from the train it shouldnt matter. The passengers should have a preprogrammed journey and you should be able to intercept at any point in that journey. if you miss them at the station you should get a call saying to go get them at their safehouse, but expect to face increased resistance. that would be your punishment for messing up the station part, not just a reload and retry.

Any story critical missions should not have NPC's to protect. They should be side stories that, if the NPC is killed you've essentially fucked that side story up but it doesnt affect the main story.

I want the game to have half as many missions, but each one twice as long. A 15 hour main story mode that could play out in 10 different ways would be a much better game to me than the linear handholding of this. I refuse to believe a branching story would be THAT hard to implement. All it has to do is send the mission in a different direction. "your target got away, now go and protect so and so from the retaliation". if you die then its retry time, but not before.

Apart from the fact that I think the main quest should be at least 30 hours with 5 different ways to play, you are spot on. These are the thoughts I've always had about the franchise and I never quite understood why Rockstar didn't go there. My explanation is that they probably can't be bothered with such design as it must be really hard and time consuming (It must also be a money problem but I don't think Rockstar has those problems) or simply they just don't have the vision for something like that.

As for the story, it may not be at Planescape Torment levels but it's one of the best and can easily compete and surpass any title out there. And the trick is that it lets you live in the city, getting to know the characters and doing jobs with them without pressing you. The trick is that it can disappear and appear and you not really pay attention. You always think that you are living your life and things move on and you go along with it, with or without your friends. For me this brings a small revolution to the table and I hope more titles embrace this mechanism.

[Meh]

I was driving along with Roman, and Niko was all like "Yeah, I'm getting along okay with my life. Scraping along as usual, you know?" and I look at how much money I have, and have a little LOL at how much bullshit he's talking. I wasn't all that fussed on the property buying stuff in VC, but man they should've ripped off the Scarface way wholesale.

Also, I really wish I'd fucking killed Dwayne now, despite his perk making life even easier.

Anyway, stupid holes I'm picking in what's turned out to be an entertaining world with a shitload of problems.

And I wish there were more assassin missions...

[Puck]

Ok, I got the 4* escape achievement yesterday by taking a car onto the airport runway. I did it but found it hard. I agree that evading a 1* rating is easy peasy, but all of you who reckon escaping from 3 or 4* wanted rating is easy too must have some pretty awesome skills, because I find it really hard. I can drive pretty well in GTA, (I’ve won the races I’ve tried after no more than two attempts), but I found last night, that the police were keeping up with me as I raced away on an open straight, contrary to claims that they can’t keep up. I was in a squad car myself at that time, but the same thing has happened to me on 3* and, I seem to recall, once on 2*. In the end trees in a small wooded area proved to be my saviour, as after finally evading the pursuit cars by taking a twisty, turny route through side streets it was the helicopter that made escape difficult.

What I will say though, is that it was fun. Oh, and in the end, I left the search zone undetected on foot; leaping over a series of low garden fences and walls in a residential area, despite my claim earlier that I would find it impossible to get the 4* escape achievement on foot.

Kiki is a cow! I was taking her out last night and jacked a taxi by mistake when I was trying to get into it. That scared her off –

she’s like a DA cadet or something

, and she went home. Her approval of me instantly dropped from 92% to 35% and I can only get her answer phone now even though two days of game time has passed. She’s going to dump me.

Who needs her anyway? I can evade a 4* wanted rating all by myself!

[therev]

And I wish there were more assassin missions...

Yeah, me too. I did them all last night. They're all really easy but great fun. I had some great kills.

[therev]

I tried to get the "evade 4*" Achievement last night and failed dismally. A few rampages got me three stars but no more, so I went to the airport runway. Trying to zoom away on the south bridge I managed to flip my car. I got out and tried to run, but two police cars were coming for me from different ends of the bridge. They hit each other head on at full speed... with me between them. Squish.

[tronied]

but I found last night, that the police were keeping up with me as I raced away on an open straight, contrary to claims that they can’t keep up.

I found that while doing the Snow Storm mission last night. Usually, I just drive in a straight line and I have no problems getting away as long as I keep an eye on the radar, but last night they were keeping up with me down the straights and whichever way I turned. I had to keep smashing into cars to try and block their paths to get away (this was only 3* too).

I had escaped from a 4* before that, but it took me a while and I found it easier as I was on the first island and there were enough small roads and alleys to duck down and evade them.

[myoozikk]

525 achievement's and counting....

[therev]

Are there any real opportunities to make money outside the main story?

I've finished the story and most of the friend missions but still need about $250,000 to get the $500,000 Achievement. Am I going to have to start a new game and buy fewer weapons if I want to get it?

[myoozikk]

you make £250000 from three leaf clover, that did it for me.

[Mr. Gerbik]

Are there any real opportunities to make money outside the main story?

I've finished the story and most of the friend missions but still need about $250,000 to get the $500,000 Achievement. Am I going to have to start a new game and buy fewer weapons if I want to get it?

getting cars for stevie seems to pay well. He's the guy that sends you a text message about which car he wants and you have to find it yourself

[therev]

you make £250000 from three leaf clover, that did it for me.

I've finished the main story. Got all that.

[therev]

getting cars for stevie seems to pay well. He's the guy that sends you a text message about which car he wants and you have to find it yourself

He never seems to have sent me a text message. I got a message from Brucie ages and ages ago saying Stevie would contact me, but he never has. Or if he has I deleted the message by mistake and have no idea what he wants or where to go.

[Mr. Gerbik]

He never seems to have sent me a text message. I got a message from Brucie ages and ages ago saying Stevie would contact me, but he never has. Or if he has I deleted the message by mistake and have no idea what he wants or where to go.

Weird, I got a message shortly afterwards. It pays well too - I went from $250000 to $400000 and there's still loads of cars to go. Have you checked all your messages on your phone?

[Guest]

Apart from the fact that I think the main quest should be at least 30 hours with 5 different ways to play, you are spot on. These are the thoughts I've always had about the franchise and I never quite understood why Rockstar didn't go there. My explanation is that they probably can't be bothered with such design as it must be really hard and time consuming (It must also be a money problem but I don't think Rockstar has those problems) or simply they just don't have the vision for something like that.

1) Yeah problems as you describe would be manifold

2) Yeah, you me and everyone here know better, we do have that vision they do not

[therev]

Weird, I got a message shortly afterwards. It pays well too - I went from $250000 to $400000 and there's still loads of cars to go. Have you checked all your messages on your phone?

I delete them all periodically, but I'll have a check.

Must be a way to find out what to do if I have deleted it, though. Can't be a one-shot thing.

[Pob]

Any story critical missions should not have NPC's to protect. They should be side stories that, if the NPC is killed you've essentially fucked that side story up but it doesnt affect the main story.

You wouldn't even need something as complex as that, as anyone who is 'killed' ought to get sent to hospital, as happens when social occassions go wrong.

If Packie gets killed on Harbouring a Grudge, for example, it should just mean you have one less ally to fight alongside you. The next day you get a text saying "pick me up from the hospital you fucking bastard", and you have to pay his healthcare fees.

I want the game to have half as many missions, but each one twice as long. A 15 hour main story mode that could play out in 10 different ways would be a much better game to me than the linear handholding of this. I refuse to believe a branching story would be THAT hard to implement. All it has to do is send the mission in a different direction. "your target got away, now go and protect so and so from the retaliation". if you die then its retry time, but not before.

Can't disagree with anything you've said. As I said earlier, the interview mission should form the template for the mission structure - it involves detective work, time-keeping, and the final bit offers a couple of options. In between each stage you can go off and do whatever you want, including preparing for the interview.

The previews said there would be more blurring between being 'on mission' and 'off mission', but only Final Interview (so far) has really lived up to this.

And the hand-holding really needs to be optional, or implemented via the phone.

[Pob]

1) Yeah problems as you describe would be manifold

2) Yeah, you me and everyone here know better, we do have that vision they do not

I do think there is an element of hubris on R*'s part though, in that they want to control how missions play out (to make sure every player gets the 'full' experience) and shoe-horn little character quirks into mid-mission cut scenes.

Which is fine, I guess, but the rollercoaster-ride mentality of the missions is at odds with the open-endedness of the rest of the game.

[FishyFish]

4* achievement was much more difficult than the 6* One Man Army achievement IMO. I did the 6* achievement by accident!

I was taking a helicopter tour with Brucie and the girs when I decided to try the "fly under all the bridges" achievement. All was going swimmingly until I ventured too close to Alderney and, BAM, 6 stars! As I was able to fly way above any ground fire, and because there was only one other enemy chopper in the area (which I evaded by flying between some skyscrapers) I managed to just tootle about over broker for the next several minutes before taking the tour party back to Brucie's pad, getting the achievement, and losing the wanted rating in the process.

Piece of cake!

4* was much more difficult and took a good 10 minutes of evasive driving, switching vehicles, running down alleys on foot (the bastard helicopter kept finding me ) before I eventually drove out of the hot zone and got the achievement. It was made much more difficult than It might have been because I though I had to get out on foot and kept dumping my car when I was close to the edge of the police perimeter.

[Cosmic_Guru]

Did snow storm last night at the second attempt (I love the anticipation that comes from the mission title coming up as a "biggie"). I found the easiest approach was to leg it out of the building after picking up the cocaine and not touch RB at all becuase the layout of the building is confusing - I got into the truck conveniently left for you but that was not too promising so ditched it and jumped into the water heading slightly south under the bridge to evade the choppers. Coming back to land I was lucky to find a car but overturned it on a police vehicle, somehow escaped their clutches and legged it for a while (damn steps really slow you down) until I realised the pay and spray was nearby - got to that easily in the end. Job Done.

There is a definately a bug in the game whereby coming out of a date all the markers (except curiously the car washes) disappear from the map leaving you no choice but to restart the game.

Driving through Algonquin is at night with the jazz station on is simply stunning.

[jonathanhoey]

I've just stolen a car for Stevie but I don't know where to take it to. I'm probably just being really stupid, but can someone help?

[K]

There's a garage in Bohan, it should be on the map. If not, take the bridge from Broker, follow the road onto the island, then take your first left. The garage is on the left.

[jonathanhoey]

Awesome, thanks. The icon is on the map, I just hadn't made the connection.

[My Filmviews]

The 4* and 6* achievements can be got very easily without having to evade police, just to be patient...check these guides on IGN (you can even get out of the 6 stars (which i did yesterday):

http://games.ign.com/dor/articles/863022/i..._episode06.html

[kerraig UK]

Well go and do it then. Games companies will take producers who haven't worked in games before.

they fucking wont. Before I started my own business I applied for a producer role with codemasters, sega, rare & rockstar. 10 years movie production experience and I only got 1 call back. their loss.

[K]

I think you could make a Disciple bot pretty easily. All you'd have to do is programme it to say "I guess you know better than Rockstar! It's a shame you're not working for them, with this level of insight you could have made GTAIV much better " every so often. It'd be less annoying than the real Disciple and use less energy.

[Guest]

they fucking wont. Before I started my own business I applied for a producer role with codemasters, sega, rare & rockstar. 10 years movie production experience and I only got 1 call back. their loss.

Try smaller companies.