GTA:IV Official Thread

[Guest]

I think you could make a Disciple bot pretty easily. All you'd have to do is programme it to say "I guess you know better than Rockstar! It's a shame you're not working for them, with this level of insight you could have made GTAIV much better " every so often. It'd be less annoying than the real Disciple and use less energy.

Thanks.

The point is, though, that as we know it's easy to get on the internet and say things (IRONY LOL). However you'd have expected "these people" who work in games to have figured out what we know right? I mean we're just internet types who say some pretty cool things - why haven't games companies made all the games we've thought of/done it how we would.

You see, right?

[Rowan Morrison]

See thats another thing that irks me is that people defend the integrity of GTA's story over its freedom of choice, but so far there is no story! Its another thing i'm quite disappointed about.

I'm afraid the story holds very little charm or interest for me compared to San Andreas, and the same can be said for the characters. So far I think it's chiefly the novelty of playing with Euphoria that's keeping my interest. I've got no real drive to unlock the third island, and I remember the excitement of getting closer and closer to accessing the Nevada section of SA (and not just the first time, either). Like the story, the environment isn't really inspiring me - it's like the way Vice City's flatness became more apparent once you'd gotten over the excitement of the bikes and helicopters.

But the vigilante missions are still ace, and when it's on form it's awesome - all those little moments that only happen in your copy of the game. Still, I can't help looking forward to the next game and being able to ditch grubby old Nico and move somewhere with a bit more... zazz. Zing, zork, etc.

I think I might still be in the early stages of the game, though, which is probably a factor - I did Snow Storm last night, first time success but it was certainly a step up from the missions I'd had before (and they definitely provide a getaway vehicle that gives the police a fighting chance). So I'm prepared and willing to eat my words.

[Pob]

Handy little thing I found last night. You can do a pretty-much instantaneous 180 turn-and-shoot manoeuvre by clicking the right stick to look behind, then pulling the left trigger.

Very handy if you're being chased, as you instantly spin round and fire off a few rounds.

[ZOK]

I took this round to a non-gamer mate's place to play it on her lovely HD telly, and she thought it was a great game. However, she said to me during a cutscene, 'Why is the script so awful? Surely if they've spent so much time on the game, they should get some proper writers in?' and words to that effect.

I tried to explain that it was well scripted comparatively, but I couldn't help feeling that she'd hit the nail on the head.

[Pob]

Thanks.

The point is, though, that as we know it's easy to get on the internet and say things (IRONY LOL). However you'd have expected "these people" who work in games to have figured out what we know right? I mean we're just internet types who say some pretty cool things - why haven't games companies made all the games we've thought of/done it how we would.

You see, right?

There are some easy-to-implement and bloody good ideas in this thread, though. Not least from me

I mean, they could easily have put all the little hand-holding hints in text messages which come in if you take too much time, or get given to you if you decide call your contact for help. Having hints is great for accessibility, but they do ruin things for more advanced gamers.

And the 'dying AI buddy' thing. Having an instant fail for something out of your control happening is at odds with the rest of the game given the steps R* have taken to make the game more accessible. Rather than fail, the AI character should be teleported to hospital.

It's not like we're all saying "oh man, why didn't they make it a constant 60fps??" or "how come if I leave a car at one side of the city, it's gone when I come back two hours later??"

[Guest]

There are some easy-to-implement and bloody good ideas in this thread, though. Not least from me

I mean, they could easily have put all the little hand-holding hints in text messages which come in if you take too much time, or decide to text in for help. Having hints is great for accessibility, but they do ruin things for more advanced gamers.

It's not like we're all saying "oh man, why didn't they make it a constant 60fps??" or "how come if I leave a car at one side of the city, it's gone when I come back two hours later??"

So they made a great game and didn't get everything right. Whoopydo.

And the 'dying AI buddy' thing. Having an instant fail for something out of your control happening is at odds with the rest of the game given the steps R* have taken to make the game more accessible. Rather than fail, the AI character should be teleported to hospital.

So if your guy dies in a mission and then goes to hospital what if he's expected in a cut scene at mission end?

[kerraig UK]

Thanks.

The point is, though, that as we know it's easy to get on the internet and say things (IRONY LOL). However you'd have expected "these people" who work in games to have figured out what we know right? I mean we're just internet types who say some pretty cool things - why haven't games companies made all the games we've thought of/done it how we would.

You see, right?

Actually no I dont. just cos Dan hauser et al work at games companies, doesnt mean they neccessarily PLAY games. I'd say we're actually more qualified than someone under that high pressure cos they possibly cant see the woods from the trees. We're not related to the I.P. and therefore can be objective. We're alos losers that have played through all the other clones and ripoffs and can therefore see more clearly the advancements that have been made.

For all we know Dan might not have the faintest clue that there are problems with 'he got away' or dissappearing cars. he might not even know we've noticed.

[Puck]

But the vigilante missions are still ace, and when it's on form it's awesome - all those little moments that only happen in your copy of the game. Still, I can't help looking forward to the next game and being able to ditch grubby old Nico and move somewhere with a bit more... zazz. Zing, zork, etc.

We still don't know what treats the DLC has in store for us, not just the exclusive 360 stuff, but also the stuff that's coming to both 360 and PS3.

Jet packs, Hydras and BMXs please.

Also, only noticed for the first time last night; where the whore are the police bikes?

[Pob]

So they made a great game and didn't get everything right. Whoopydo.

And I bet they address a lot of these things in the next game, based on feedback. They did a lot for GTAIV - instant retries, cabs, auto-save, revamped shooting action etc.

So if your guy dies in a mission and then goes to hospital what if he's expected in a cut scene at mission end?

Just have that cut scene kick in once you've collected him from hospital and taken him home.

[Guest]

Actually no I dont. just cos Dan hauser et al work at games companies, doesnt mean they neccessarily PLAY games. I'd say we're actually more qualified than someone under that high pressure cos they possibly cant see the woods from the trees. We're not related to the I.P. and therefore can be objective. We're alos losers that have played through all the other clones and ripoffs and can therefore see more clearly the advancements that have been made.

For all we know Dan might not have the faintest clue that there are problems with 'he got away' or dissappearing cars. he might not even know we've noticed.

I bet you £1000 you're wrong.

Bear in mind, Murray has a crisp twenty-pound-note waiting for for me in bath

[Guest]

And I bet they address a lot of these things in the next game, based on feedback. They did a lot for GTAIV - instant retries, cabs, auto-save, revamped shooting action etc.

Yeah they'll definately tweak bits.

Just have that cut scene kick in once you've collected him from hospital and taken him home.

What if in the story he's out for revenge and actually has to be there at the end of your warehouse shootout? The game is suffering for the story. But then you take that away and the whole game is suffering for the game.

[K]

So if your guy dies in a mission and then goes to hospital what if he's expected in a cut scene at mission end?

You almost never get ending cutscenes; almost invariably, you just get Packie or Roman or whoever ringing you up afterwards. You just have them call from the hospital.

[Guest]

You almost never get ending cutscenes; almost invariably, you just get Packie or Roman or whoever ringing you up afterwards. You just have them call from the hospital.

Then end of Vlad

requires Roman. So you can do it most of the time, but let's say on that one time it's instant mission fail?

The internet would be on fire with geeks bemoaning the lack of consistency, and probably multiple cut scenes etc...

[kerraig UK]

Yeah they'll definately tweak bits.

What if in the story he's out for revenge and actually has to be there at the end of your warehouse shootout? The game is suffering for the story. But then you take that away and the whole game is suffering for the game.

You really are talking the most amount of shite. obviously you tailor the story to the new mission structure. So that scenario simply wont occur.

[Harsin]

I'd like to know why Rockstar have such an aversion to checkpoints.

[K]

Then end of Vlad

requires Roman. So you can do it most of the time, but let's say on that one time it's instant mission fail?

The internet would be on fire with geeks bemoaning the lack of consistency, and probably multiple cut scenes etc...

If changing the end cutscene of one level will improve the game as a whole, then change the fucking cutscene.

[Pob]

What does grate is that the little cut scenes when you go and stand on a yellow marker are usually little more than a different camera angle of Niko arriving on the scene and looking up at a building. Or perhaps of a couple of people legging it out of a warehouse. I don't think there's a need a break the immersion for that. Once a mission kicks off, it should stay in third person for the duration for the most part.

There's a mission where you have to plant a bomb on a car and blow it at a meet. I got myself to a safe distance (with the help of a yellow marker showing exactly where this 'safe distance' was). Then when I called the number to trigger the bomb, instead of seeing it from my current position, it instantly cut away to a cinematic view of the explosion. I'd much prefer it if I was left in control for things like that. It's a bit too much nannying for my tastes.

[Blue Screen Error]

Are there any real opportunities to make money outside the main story?

I've finished the story and most of the friend missions but still need about $250,000 to get the $500,000 Achievement. Am I going to have to start a new game and buy fewer weapons if I want to get it?

There are a couple of ways to get money for what you want-

1. Three leaf clover

2. Kill Dwayne- Playboy gives you about the same as three leaf clover

3. Do the texts from Stevie

I think the intial outcome of the diamond heist gives you a lot of money as well.

Thats how I did it.

Oh and you

can't delet stevies text until you have gotten the vehicle to him

[Sir DangerM]

I really havent had chance to sit own and play this properley since the first night i had it because i've had loads of work to do. I keep just doing an hour here and there, and i seem to spend most of my time going out with 'friends' because i'm too nice to refuse them when they phone me up. I think I'll have a night off from working tonight and try and finish the story.

[Great_Sage_Equal_of_Heaven]

They did a lot for GTAIV - instant retries

Isn't this just using the "later that day" option from SA though - not really anything new?

Like most forumites have mentioned I think check-points midway through missions would be better, and would lend itself to longer missions.

[Guest]

You really are talking the most amount of shite. obviously you tailor the story to the new mission structure. So that scenario simply wont occur.

Nah I'm not. We're disagreeing no need to get so het up!

If changing the end cutscene of one level will improve the game as a whole, then change the fucking cutscene.

No, cos then you are changing the game. You're talking about culling cutscenes - which has a detrimental affect to the game. Which is what you wanted to avoid.

Anyway I'm done here, clearly. Man...

[K]

No, cos then you are changing the game. You're talking about culling cutscenes - which has a detrimental affect to the game. Which is what you wanted to avoid.

What are you talking about? Cutscenes are there to service the game, not the other way round. And I'm not talking about 'culling' cutscenes, just amending them somewhat so they still work if your AI partner gets put down and ends up in hospital.

Cutscenes aren't sent down by God Almighty. It's stupid to suggest that changing them is in some way detrimental to the game, as if they're perfect and the game has to be designed around them. A story will go through dozens of stages of development and re-writing before it's released to the public, why not re-write it with a view to improving the bits of the game when you're not passively watching a cutscene?

[robdood]

Well, what we're seeing here is the reason things don't change in the games industry. People like Disciple () are used to how things work now - they see a 'story' as a game device which is very rigid, that the game is built around.

However, what K, Kerraig, Pob etc are talking about is freeing up the 'story' to make way for a more interactive, sandbox story experience. If Roman gets killed at the start of the game, fuck it - he will no longer be able to give you missions, but someone else can step in to fill his shoes. And yes, though this would be a nightmare to design, if you built the game around that kind of flexibility to begin with then it wouldn't be too difficult at all, I think.

[kerraig UK]

Nah I'm not. We're disagreeing no need to get so het up!

No, cos then you are changing the game. You're talking about culling cutscenes - which has a detrimental affect to the game. Which is what you wanted to avoid.

Anyway I'm done here, clearly. Man...

No, we're not disagreeing, you are literally talking shit. i'm not getting het up, i'm perfectly calm. Your argument is nonsense. you're saying "but if it was your way then that mission with that cutscene and that bit wouldn't work". Well no, of COURSE it wouldnt work how it is now. Of COURSE if you applied what we are talking about to currently existing missions it would cause problems. But we're talkiing about a new storyline with new missions built around this new structure. Which makes your criticisms redundant. it would have to be restructured, but the game would be better for it.

[Talk Show Host]

I think the problem is not about Rockstar tweaking mechanics based on feedback. They can easily do that if they want. Just as they can easily get them wrong in the first place since people have different tastes and abilities. Their focus testing group (and themselves) maybe thought it was necessary to have this hand holding in the game because they probably thought the city was too big and needed some clear cut objectives. For me that is wrong but for someone else it could be right.

The real meat is why they didn't implement some amazing ideas discussed in this thread (and have been discussed for years by many gamers), like for example the mission structure which they could make it with more diversified goals and, generally, much more interesting. Sure, some they may have thought already and found them too difficult or time consuming to implement but others, even obvious ones like the consistency in missions (sometimes you can kill someone, others not until you reach a certain point) or the checkpoints' absence just come off as things they got plain wrong.

There are ideas in here which would make the game absolutely revolutionary in so many ways. It is only fair for those who wrote them not to be dismissed (some of the at least) as ideas that were ditched by Rockstar but as ideas that Rockstar didn't even think.

Rockstar are human too, not an all knowing super force of brain power.

[kerraig UK]

Well, what we're seeing here is the reason things don't change in the games industry. People like Disciple () are used to how things work now - they see a 'story' as a game device which is very rigid, that the game is built around.

However, what K, Kerraig, Pob etc are talking about is freeing up the 'story' to make way for a more interactive, sandbox story experience. If Roman gets killed at the start of the game, fuck it - he will no longer be able to give you missions, but someone else can step in to fill his shoes. And yes, though this would be a nightmare to design, if you built the game around that kind of flexibility to begin with then it wouldn't be too difficult at all, I think.

i think you could have 2 tiers of characters. mission critical characters and 'expendable' extra characters. The mission critical guys such as Roman just need to have missions where they are not directly in danger. OR as Pob suggested just send em to hospital. Other token characters could have missions where they CAN be killed outright and stop their story arc dead in its tracks. I also wouldnt mind if it had a dead rising style structure where you COULDNT do all the missions even if you wanted to. like two rival gangs both trying to recruit you at the same time and you have to make hard choices to leave one side of the story behind you.

[Timmo]

I really havent had chance to sit own and play this properley since the first night i had it because i've had loads of work to do. I keep just doing an hour here and there, and i seem to spend most of my time going out with 'friends' because i'm too nice to refuse them when they phone me up. I think I'll have a night off from working tonight and try and finish the story.

It's really long, man! 30 hours is doable if you don't friend or date too much. And you take taxis often. 40-50 is average probably.

[K]

My problem with a branching structure like that would be having to play through quite a long game in order to see what happens if you make a different choice 25hrs in; I dunno if I could be arsed doing that, and I hate missing out on stuff. Colony Wars on the Playstation had a system whereby you wouldn't die if you failed a mission, the war would just go worse and worse for your side. The only way the game would end is when the war did, with varying degrees of victory or defeat for either side.

It also had a system whereby after you'd finished a campaign, you'd get a kind of Outrun-style tree diagram showing your path through the game, with the option to jump in at key points and try to change history. A system like this in a GTA-style game would be 24ct money.

[robdood]

i think you could have 2 tiers of characters. mission critical characters and 'expendable' extra characters. The mission critical guys such as Roman just need to have missions where they are not directly in danger. OR as Pob suggested just send em to hospital. Other token characters could have missions where they CAN be killed outright and stop their story arc dead in its tracks. I also wouldnt mind if it had a dead rising style structure where you COULDNT do all the missions even if you wanted to. like two rival gangs both trying to recruit you at the same time and you have to make hard choices to leave one side of the story behind you.

Aye that could work, the way I've thought about it in the past is more like 2 'rosters' of characters, 'Good' and 'Bad', and a hierarchy within each - theory being, when someone's bumped off, someone else from the roster fills their place.

[Exidor]

I've finished the story and most of the friend missions

There are a couple of ways to get money for what you want-

Story thing 1

Story thing 2

Story thing 3

It's really not rocket science.

Apart from Stevie, the only one I can think of off the top of my head is

jacking the security vans, taking them somewhere quiet and blowing them up

. I think that only gets you about a grand a time though, so it'll take a while to hit the 500k.