Bad Beats

[rjpageuk]

i'm suffering from what i'd like to think is a load of bad beats at the moment, but in reality i think rather sucks at the moment. trying to learn 6 max at the low stakes is not the easiest thing i've ever done. i might have to go back to sng grinding if my roll doesn't improve soon. that said both kk and aa have been big losers for me this week.

I am up 5.5BB/100 hands over the past 29k hands at 25NL on Full Tilt and I just looked at my winnings from AA and KK alone which are 72% of my overall winnings! So it is easy to see why if these two hands dont hold up for you over a certain period you are bound to be struggling.

[mayor_mike_haggar]

That's a consolation at least! i meant to say that my play sucks at the moment, which is probably true. I'm still trying to switch from tourney mode to cash game style, which means i need to stop making so many ridiculous moves at the blinds i think. i installed a trial version of pokertracker, and it's certainly been pretty useful so far. i guess i should have got it sooner.

[Bibly]

Friday night, £40 double chance tourney at casino.

I'm dealt AA, raise it to 6x BB before flop and get one call. Flop comes 10 6 2 and he checks. I bet the pot and get called. Turn comes 4. I still think I'm way ahead in this, and put the guy on high pocket pair so raise him all in, he quickly calls and turns over 8 9!

Everyone kinda looks at him in "what the fuck was that" way as he's usually a good player and I've seen him play before. River comes 7 and he makes the straight and doubles up, taking a huge chunk of my stack.

I was FURIOUS.

5 hands later, I get AA again, flopped a set and go all in, called again by someone with a lower stack who has KK. Turn/River comes KK and he wins it.

And for my last hand, JJ, hit it on the flop, go all in, get called by KK again by the same person, who hit it on the river to beat me again and knock me out.

It was the worst night of poker I've ever had. Nothing at all went my way, it was horrible.

Now that has got to be one of the most depressing posts in this thread. I do think these things feel different when they occur live as opposed to online. In the latter case you can always get miffed at the software or their generator or something, but seeing running kings to beat a top set is really a drop-kick in the teeth.

[stephen129]

Turn river KK, did he hit perfect to win that, or did he have some kind of straight draw too? Ouch that sounds nasty.

[Poet]

I am so bored of this shit happening to me again and again. Simply cannot string together a decent winning streak, and every single time it's down to horrdenous luck, like this:

GAME #1104848506: Texas Hold'em NL $0.50/$1 2008-08-05 22:33:49

Table Aramil (No DP)

Seat 1: bu1ke ($134.35 in chips)

Seat 3: Juno28 ($100.00 in chips)

Seat 5: Vika1984 ($232.24 in chips)

Seat 6: glimneloverno1 ($177.15 in chips)

Seat 8: xPoetx ($272.95 in chips) DEALER

Seat 10: kzpapa ($113.90 in chips)

kzpapa: Post SB $0.50

bu1ke: Post BB $1.00

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to xPoetx [CA SA]

Juno28: Raise (NF) $3.50

Vika1984: Fold

glimneloverno1: Fold

xPoetx: Raise (NF) $12.00

kzpapa: Fold

bu1ke: Fold

Juno28: Raise (NF) $34.00

xPoetx: Raise (NF) $272.95

Juno28: Allin $66.00

*** FLOP *** [D8 SQ DQ]

*** TURN *** [C9]

*** RIVER *** [H10]

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $371.45 Rake $3.00

Juno28: Shows [HQ CQ]

Juno28: wins $198.50

xPoetx: wins $172.95

Oh my god I'm so bored of idiots calling off their stacks with Queens through to 8s and hitting, for 100BBs or more. Fucking cash game retards.

[mayor_mike_haggar]

look on the bright side, you made about about 120 sklansky dollars preflop.

[Poet]

If I was paid in Sklansky dollars, I'd have a bankroll fit for 10k NL, not 100NL. It's amazing how bad you can run for so long when you can do stuff like keep putting in huge stacks as a 4-1 favourite and losing. Turned a $400 winning session yesterday into a slight loser in under 20 minutes last night through 4 all ins (well, 3 and change). AA losing to QQ, AA losing to KK, AKs losing to JJ and AKo losing to Q7o ("only" 40BBs). All in preflop each time. Each against absolutely appalling players.

I really hate outplaying pretty much everyone at the tables all night and walking away with nothing. Not because I need the money per se other than I want my bankroll to grow quicker, especially as I'm leaving in most of it from now on, and only have 20 buyins for 100NL right now. I want to move up away from 100NL level permanently. It bores me now. Will take shots back at 200NL when I have 20 buyins at 200NL and more up properly when I have 30.

[stephen129]

Sklansky dollars? I presume that's something mentioned in one of his books?

[Darragh]

Sklansky dollars? I presume that's something mentioned in one of his books?

Basically, if you had 80% equity in a $100 pot, you will earn $80 Sklansky dollars. While you might lose the pot 20% of the time, if the situation was repeated an infinite number of times, your winnings in that hand will average out at $80.

[mayor_mike_haggar]

God, I'm getting so sick of the live game retards I play with. the only games near me that I can get to with any regularity are £10 freezeouts run at riley's snooker clubs, which are usually full of fairly horrendous players and know-it-alls. the blind structure usually makes the endgame a crapshoot, but it's a laugh and i like to play live when i can. Anyway, early on I got it all in with kk with preflop full in the knowledge that the guy i'm playing is a ridiculously bad, loose player who think's pocket 7s are the nuts, he turns over 99 and of course hits his 9 on the river. I could usually take this, but right afterwards he turns round, pats me on the back, and goes 'don't hate the player, hate the game', as if he'd made some kind of ingeniuos play or something. This wouldn't rankle so much if he hadn't put me out the week before when i pushed all in with a medium stack with aq (mental blinds), he 'read me for a bluff' and called with j9, for 80% his stack, of and of course hits a straight and then acts like he's the man again. He's also one of those dickheads who wears a hoodie and an ipod to a fucking £10 buy in local donkament because he thinks he's phil laak or something.

aaaaaaaaargh

[rjpageuk]

I have been playing live quite a lot recently and running into similar people. I did play at my local Rileys a few times too.

The people that I enjoy playing against most are the live only players who can do all the tricks with their chips then call off their entire stack with 98s pre flop to defend his big blind because they "thought you only have two high cards so they had two live cards".

EDIT: I am always amazed how loose people are in live games compared to online

[Baring]

rileys live tournys are full of chavs and know it alls who just get lucky like u said above, they just sit there and talk shit for the full game i dont go anymore

[mayor_mike_haggar]

Yes, most of the riley's players are complete idiots who think that being able to riffle a stack of chips makes you the next phil ivey. I once mentioned pot odds when i called someone, and my nickname is now 'statto' because i'm apparently some kind of maths geek for caring about pot odds. A load of the same players play in a cash game at my local, and i wish i was rolled to play it. they're all astonishingly loose and aggressive and love to gamble, one guy recently shoved all in over a re-re-raise with 7-5o when the other guy had kings, in a £300 pot. It's insane. I played a few rebuys with them, but the swings are just ludicrous.

I just wish i knew more places to get a decent live game with semi-reasonable blind structures in manchester

[Rossco]

Casinos?

[Baring]

Casinos?

well done

[rjpageuk]

Yes, most of the riley's players are complete idiots who think that being able to riffle a stack of chips makes you the next phil ivey. I once mentioned pot odds when i called someone, and my nickname is now 'statto' because i'm apparently some kind of maths geek for caring about pot odds. A load of the same players play in a cash game at my local, and i wish i was rolled to play it. they're all astonishingly loose and aggressive and love to gamble, one guy recently shoved all in over a re-re-raise with 7-5o when the other guy had kings, in a £300 pot. It's insane. I played a few rebuys with them, but the swings are just ludicrous.

I just wish i knew more places to get a decent live game with semi-reasonable blind structures in manchester

I had my 7BB pre flop raise called by 85o today who then flopped a straight on a FD board when I had KK.

Doh! I think I will make my raises even bigger next time.

[Rossco]

See that's just wrong, why would anyone call 7BB's with 85os, it's ridiculous!

[mayor_mike_haggar]

I put a nice beat on someone tonight, I was short stacked after my jacks ran into queens and failed to improve, so i pushed all in blind when it was folded to me on the button next hand. The sb raises it up, bb folds, and the sb flips over kk to my rather pathetic 68o. I hit my 8 on the flop, make trips on the turn and boat up on the river. Right to be on the nice end of some ridiculous carsd for once. I love rileys donkaments.

In another nice moment the same idiot i talked about a few posts ago got it all in preflop with the big stack, he had the 2nd biggest stack and was almost assured a money finish. He flipped over kj to the big stack's ak and was eliminated. It was absolutely beautiful.

[Darragh]

Gah! Playing some of the WCOOP Steps satellites on Stars, and I've hit a brick wall on Step fuckin' 2. Bought into Step 1 for 500FPPs ($7.50 is the cash buy-in), won that first time, sending me to Step 2 ($27). In Step 2, 5th prize is a ticket to Step 1, 3rd and 4th are a ticket to Step 2, and 1st and 2nd get a ticket to Step 3. I've had three thirds in a row now.

[Darragh]

After another third place finish, and a fourth, I finally got there! Got three-handed with the tightest players I'd ever faced in such a situation. Well, one of them started sitting out once we hit three-handed, and the other player was obviously terrified of bubbling the Step 3 ticket. I won 30 of the last 34 hands, it was that good. Just auto-raising any two cards, and I won every pot uncontested. The tight guy tried a stop-and-go on me once, but I just shoved over the top and he insta-folded. Got my $82 ticket for Step 3 now, and due to the prize structure, once you hit five-handed action (out of 9 players), you're freerolling. Would be nice to get through two more Steps and play in the mind-bogglingly structured $1,050 NL event (15k stack, 30 min blinds, which is insane online).

[mayor_mike_haggar]

that sounds ace, I love playing tight weak players when you're bubbling a sng, it makes life so much easier. Also it's really hard to find any online deepstack tourneys at low buyin levels, and I could really use practice in deepstack games, because it turns out that my cash play is quite horrifically bad. Not that my current run of form helps, having lost plenty of money to ak being cracked by aq, sets running into rivered straights (when played fast) and all sorts of other filth. I just thank god I managed to finally clear the stars sign up bonus, which has limited the damage done to my roll.

[mayor_mike_haggar]

Just look at this shit. This idiot was calling something like 50% of flops, so I knew he was playing utter cheese. I wouldn't mind so much, but I'd just managed to build my stack up to something remotely healthy after being shortstacked for a while. these tournaments can be so frustrating sometimes.

Seat 1: DieterMasse (6195 in chips)

Seat 2: No_Pelo (8076 in chips)

Seat 3: razeur007 (8348 in chips)

Seat 5: jerem4444 (5925 in chips)

Seat 6: jarode21 (2210 in chips)

Seat 7: morfheux (2632 in chips)

Seat 8: johan glans (2300 in chips)

Seat 9: arie johan (6110 in chips)

jerem4444: posts small blind 100

jarode21: posts big blind 200

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to johan glans [Ac Ks]

morfheux: calls 200

johan glans: raises 600 to 800

arie johan: folds

DieterMasse: folds

No_Pelo: folds

razeur007: folds

jerem4444: folds

jarode21: folds

morfheux: calls 600

*** FLOP *** [As 3c Qh]

morfheux: bets 1832 and is all-in

johan glans: calls 1500 and is all-in

Uncalled bet (332) returned to morfheux

*** TURN *** [As 3c Qh] [2c]

*** RIVER *** [As 3c Qh 2c] [Jh]

*** SHOW DOWN ***

morfheux: shows [Qc Jc] (two pair, Queens and Jacks)

johan glans: shows [Ac Ks] (a pair of Aces)

morfheux collected 4900 from pot

[mayor_mike_haggar]

Look at this, one of the few times in omaha I'll be a 3/1 favourite and the idiot hits quads. This guy was mental. Raising every pot preflop, betting every flop, he was absurdly easy to trap. I know you're not usually supposed to play aces like this in omaha, but i knew i could get it all i preflop easy.

Dealt to johan glans [9h Ah 8s Ac]

JustAFiller: raises $0.05 to $0.07

jeffh8063: folds

pushORpush: calls $0.07

Pal Pit 8: calls $0.07

johan glans: raises $0.31 to $0.38

pasilda: folds

Jdhhuntin: folds

LHGit: folds

JustAFiller: raises $0.93 to $1.31

pushORpush: folds

Pal Pit 8: folds

johan glans: raises $2.79 to $4.10

JustAFiller: raises $0.09 to $4.19 and is all-in

johan glans: calls $0.09

*** FLOP *** [Td Qh Kc]

*** TURN *** [Td Qh Kc] [Kh]

*** RIVER *** [Td Qh Kc Kh] [7c]

*** SHOW DOWN ***

JustAFiller: shows [Ks 6h Kd 7h] (four of a kind, Kings)

johan glans: mucks hand

JustAFiller collected $8.15 from pot

[Guest sohel]

I call with Ac 8c. SB calls, BB checks and the flop comes 4c 9c 2c - teh nuts!!! Everyone checks, I bet, one person calls, turn is Qd, I bet, idiot raises, I push all-in, idiot calls, river is 4d, idiot shows Q 4 for the rivered full house.

[redman]

last game I went far with 2 kings, new I had the beating of my mate who got a queen on the last card to make three queens. gutted

[Reidles]

Half an hour into last night's game:

Blinds 50/100, my stack: 7k

Hole cards are [Ad Ac], in postion

Rest of the players either fold or call 100

I raise 200

Two callers ('Rich' and 'Danny')

Flop: [4h 9s 8c]

Danny checks

Rich bets 300

I raise 1000

Danny folds

Rich bets all in (roughly 6k)

Thinking about trips, I hesitate and call

He has [Qd 10h]

Turn: [4h 9s 8c] [7d]

River: [4h 9s 8s] [7d] [Jd]

I don't expect any sympathy from people losing all in calls on pocket aces, as I'm sure every player has gone had it. He did a good call in the end, but I bet he wouldn#t have done it if he had seen the %'s.

Still though, I thought I played it right, sometimes you do get fucked with only 4 outs!

[mayor_mike_haggar]

Your pre flop raise was way to small really, you're making it very easy for people to call you with speculative hands, and either flop something decent or get away cheaply. His play was ludicroulsly donkish though. though if you'd just called the turn card would have made for a pretty scary board.

In situations like that, though, I'm usually trying to fold what might still be the best hand, in the knowledge that I can probably get my money all in again later with a much stronger holding.

[Reidles]

Yeah, after writing this I went away and realised that the 7 gave him an up-and-down straight draw, giving him at most 8 outs, which I think roughly translates into 25% chance of him winning.

I did also think that my raise was possibly too small (never slow play the big pocket pair, eh!), but I was getting all the chips and the hands and the blinds weren't worth taking (though in hindsight they clearly were), so I thought I would try to get some action on the flop. I guess that was a mistake - didn't even think about a 9/8 two pair either. He still got incredibly lucky though, but then thats cards.

[mayor_mike_haggar]

Jesus wept this is irritating. I'm at a table with a colossal donk/calling station, who's playing something like 90% of hands, and calling down to the river with nothing loads of the time, and every single time i've got into a big pot with him with solid holdings he's had something better. I've had set under set, out kickered when we both had trips, lower two pairs, I drop about three buyins to the guy and then everyone else is taking my money off him when he calls their flushes with bottom pair.

fuckfuckfuckfuuuuuuuck

[stephen129]

I think if you're fairly new to poker, which I'm assuming you are. It's always to play your big hands strongly, especially preflop. You often see pros limping with Aces, Kings or Queens, but they usually have the ability to lay down on dangerous flops. If your flop play is weak, you should simply play your big hands strong. A raise to 450-600 would have had the desired effect, and you would have taken down a small pot there.

As Doyle Brunson said in his book Super System: "Fact is, with a Pair of Aces or Kings … one of two things will usually happen. Either: 1. You’ll win a small pot or 2. You’ll lose a big pot".

Aces and Kings, although lovely, can cause a lot of problems. By raising 5-6BBs preflop, you're giving the big and small blind really bad pot odds to call with marginal holdings. By raising to 300, it's a pretty cheap call to see and flop and try and flop big.

But yeah, I agree his play was pretty terrible, but these are the people you'll win money off in the long run if you play properly.

Finally, to work out percentages, work out the number of outs, in this case 8, and double it and add a percent or two. So he had about 18% to win before the river fell. If you want to work out percentages on the turn, simply double the river percentages.