Mix Club 2007

[Guest]

Regular Mix Clubbers will know that MW_Jimmy has decided to step down from coordinating our monthly CD Mix Club after a frankly heroic two years in charge. I'm going to be running the show from January so I thought I would open a discussion about any changes you might like to see in the way it works.

I've got a couple of ideas myself, but equally "I think it's all fine and wouldn't change a thing" is a perfectly valid opinion.

To see the full rules of the CD Club as it runs now, check this thread: http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?showtopic=125919

Discuss!

[strawdonkey]

What are your ideas?

The only thing that springs to mind for me is a slightly more regimented registration/notification system - as in, the new month's registration starts on the first of the month and the PMs of addresses are sent out on the 10th, rather than 'usually a week into the month'.

[Mr Do 71]

I get really annoyed at people who completey ignore, the CDs that have been sent to them. Which has happened to my October Mix, in which I took the time to produce a main mix and a bonus mix. No feedback at all

I sent the CDs to: http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?showuser=6270

[Pekoe]

It might be interesting to do a theme each month - similar to the photo club one. So January could be Songs To Wake Up To, February Singular Named Artists/ Bands etc, although I imagine that it would probably create longer delays than what we get now and some may struggle to have stuff to meet the criteria.

You'd have to make sure that the Theme is fairly open ended and not musically based by genre.

[Guest]

What are your ideas?

I thought I'd let you guys get yours out and see what the popular opinions are first!

I get really annoyed at people who completey ignore, the CDs that have been sent to them. Which has happened to my October Mix, in which I took the time to produce a main mix and a bonus mix. No feedback at all

What would you suggest as the appropriate action on that - same process as a non-sender?

[Mr Do 71]

I thought I'd let you guys get yours out and see what the popular opinions are first!

What would you suggest as the appropriate action on that - same process as a non-sender?

Yeah, why not? If you want in the mix club, you should at least listen to the CD and post something about it. Otherwise don't take part.

[Zomby]

I think themed CD's are a great idea.. but I think some people will find it hard to stick to a theme, especially people who listen to a lot of dance music where the only thing they could possibly match is the song title and that’s about it!

It'd be cool to have one person on the list (taken at random each month) pick a rough theme, as it's not too specific.

I think a little write up by the sender as to why they chose the songs on the CD or just a few scraps of info on the artists on the CD would also be a fantastic addition but I do realise this may take some time to knock up maybe it's not such a good idea.

Just my two pence worth anyways.

[strawdonkey]

I usually try and theme my CDs in some way, it's quite entertaining sometimes but they can go horribly wrong. An optional theme would be nice though, no rules; just "try and do this, but if it isn't possible, then no biggie".

I agree with Mr. Do on the feedback thing. I've never had any really late feedback (beep above was the only person late with it but I'd already had a general impression from him previously so wasn't fussed) but I can imagine it's almost as annoying as not receiving a CD as you may as well have not bothered sending one out in the first place if you get absolutely no reaction.

[Art Vandelay]

I'd say that there should be a limit to the amount of CDs you can send, and maybe even a time restriction on the one CD. I know people think they're being really kind by sending a bonus, and they usually are, but some people have a limited amount of time in which they can listen to whatever has been sent - this can lead to offence when a critique isn't exactly forthcoming.

I've had two CDs from ZOK before, which were great because we share a similar musical interest, but by the same token I've had over 2 hours of music I hate before, and it's been a chore. This is especially irritating because I know how much effort has gone in to make the compilations which were to a certain extent, a bit of a waste of someone's hard work.

[acidbearboy]

I don't like the idea of a set theme. If I think of something good one month then I'll run with it, but selecting other peoples music isn't like taking a photograph, or even making your own music. I would find it far too restricting and think it would quickly become tiresome.

I agree 100% with Mr Do about the feedback issue. The point of the mixclub is to send new music to fellow music lovers. If you can't be bothered to even write a sentance or two to say what you thought of the album then you really shouldn't be participating. Fair enough if there is a good excuse for not listening but some people just come across as being too lazy to bother.

I also think you should enforce Jimmy's fairly new 3 strikes and you're out rule for late senders. Far too many people still seem to send out discs late. Perhaps something similar could be set up for people who leave zero feedback. I don't think track by track anaylsis should be compulsory (although it's nice) but at least a general opinion of if it was good or bad and which tracks stood out.

Also, as Art said. I think a limit of one disc should be enforced. Bonus discs can be thrown in, but should be highlighted as such and therefore treated with less importance etc.

[Cosmic_Guru]

I like the idea of a theme and then seeing from the tracklists how people interpret that.

Imposing a time limit of say 45 minutes would be good discipline on senders (less is more folks ) and might encourage better feedback. For example, Boozy sent me 2 full CDs with an incredible range of music on them and I found it hard to formulate any structured feedback, because the overall package knocked me out.

[Boozy The Clown]

I agree with the limit rule too despite having broken it myself. 12 tracks should be ample and it lets you add more feedback per track. It also leads to a tighter mix overall. When i go to make my CD up I end up having to choose from at least 50 tunes and keep adding stuff that probably weakens the overall mix.

The theme could be optional and randomly selected by a participant each month.

Could we also have an optional upload choice. Sometimes reading the feedback makes you want to know what other mixes are like too.

[strawdonkey]

I agree with the limit rule too despite having broken it myself. 12 tracks should be ample

Like...

The theme could be optional and randomly selected by a participant each month.

Like...

Could we also have an optional upload choice. Sometimes reading the feedback makes you want to know what other mixes are like too.

Love.

[Mr Do 71]

I agree with the limit rule too despite having broken it myself. 12 tracks should be ample and it lets you add more feedback per track. It also leads to a tighter mix overall. When i go to make my CD up I end up having to choose from at least 50 tunes and keep adding stuff that probably weakens the overall mix.

The theme could be optional and randomly selected by a participant each month.

Could we also have an optional upload choice. Sometimes reading the feedback makes you want to know what other mixes are like too.

This.

[Guest]

Could we also have an optional upload choice. Sometimes reading the feedback makes you want to know what other mixes are like too.

I was thinking about this too. I reckon it would have to be the recipient who decides if they can accept an upload, as some people are still on slow connections or can't necessarily listen to / burn on the PC they download on. So I would keep a log of who is okay with downloads and then let the sender know each time. It would kind of cut out the anonymous aspect of who is sending your mix but a lot of people blab anyway

It might also make the club fully international if anyone outside Europe wants in - they could be upload only.

How's that?

[Guitar Heroine]

I love getting these cd's but I always feel that I dont have "new" music to send to folk, I never know if Im just tolerated or if anyone likes my cd's - this is not a dig at wiper (i dont know if he liked it or not) btw, just an observation from ages back - which I why I stopped taking part for a year becuase I felt my cd's werent what ppl wanted. I dont really know what to do tbh, I want to carry on taking part but I just dont have some of the new and interesting stuff that others have.

[anewman]

I agree with all the stuff about limiting it to one CD. Ideally I'd say something like 40 minutes absolute max, but that's maybe a bit tight.

Themes are a bit silly if you ask me, but as long as they were optional I guess they could be fun. Trying to stick to one would be horrible though. In the past, I've always just put tracks that I really like and think the other person might not have heard.

On feedback, I agree it's frustrating to not receive feedback, but I think it can only be an unwritten rule, a kind of etiquette, that people should give feedback. I don't think you can make it a rule because you don't know what you're going to receive - and it's always possible you'll get something you find almost unlistenable, or simply have very little to say about.

[acidbearboy]

But surely it's not acceptable to say nothing about a cd. I think anybody who blatently ignores requests by the sender for some feedback should have some sort of slap on the wrist at least. It's just not in the spirit of the mix club.

Also, I'm not keen on the idea of a time limit which is under the 80 minutes of a cd. A lot of music I listen to doesn't fit into the 4 minute pop song bracket and it's nice to fit in some epic tracks now and then. You might only get 4 tracks on your 40 mionute cd anewman!

So, to summarise:

Uploads - YES

One disc only - YES

Time limit - NO

Theme should be optional

Some sort of feedback should be compulsory

[Boozy The Clown]

I was thinking about this too. I reckon it would have to be the recipient who decides if they can accept an upload, as some people are still on slow connections or can't necessarily listen to / burn on the PC they download on. So I would keep a log of who is okay with downloads and then let the sender know each time. It would kind of cut out the anonymous aspect of who is sending your mix but a lot of people blab anyway

It might also make the club fully international if anyone outside Europe wants in - they could be upload only.

How's that?

I was thinking of using uploading more as a bonus for others who want to hear a mix that's been discussed after you've posted a CD. It's the receiving and giving of the CD that makes the club special and I wouldn't want to change that.

[anewman]

Some sort of feedback should be compulsory

If you make it compulsory you'll end up in a situation where people are forced to give feedback about music they have nothing positive or enthusiastic to say about, just so they can stay within the rules and participate the next month.

Also, how do you define feedback? Is 10 words enough? 10 words on each song?

I'm just thinking out loud, of course, but to me giving feedback on a CD you've been sent is just being polite, and you can't really legislate for politeness.

Otherwise I don't mind at all how it ends up in terms of rules. I really like the mix club, and I hope it keeps going.

[Pekoe]

Without feedback the purpose of the mix club would be defeated, you would just end up with a list thread.

[Fletch]

Why can't the mixes be download only as that way surely a wider range of people get to hear them and more critique would be forthcoming?

[Vimster]

I've been uploading my mixes for the past few months, not sure if people other than the recipient bother to download them, but it's no bother so I'll happily keep doing it.

Not keen on a theme, except maybe the voluntary one. As others have said I tend to either put stuff I've enjoyed recently into the mix or try and make a mix that the recipient might largely enjoy.

It's always great to get feedback, any feedback. It's only fair. Surely people can take an hour or two out just to have a listen and get a couple of paragraphs out? No-one is so busy they can't, surely? Or am I just the one with too much time on my hands?

[acidbearboy]

If you make it compulsory you'll end up in a situation where people are forced to give feedback about music they have nothing positive or enthusiastic to say about, just so they can stay within the rules and participate the next month.

Also, how do you define feedback? Is 10 words enough? 10 words on each song?

I'm just thinking out loud, of course, but to me giving feedback on a CD you've been sent is just being polite, and you can't really legislate for politeness.

Otherwise I don't mind at all how it ends up in terms of rules. I really like the mix club, and I hope it keeps going.

Well apart from being polite and saying "thanks, I got your cd today", here are 3 short responses that I would be happy to hear instead of detailed track by track feedback:

1. NEGATIVE:

I tried, but it really wasn't my cup of tea at all. Sorry.

2. AVERAGE:

Not a bad disc, but certainly nothing inspiring. Nothing nothing offended me though. I wouldn't mind hearing some more stuff from the artist of track #, that was probably my favourite of the bunch.

3. POSITIVE:

Thanks, I really enjoyed your cd. It's hard to pick out any outstanding tracks as they all seem to fit together well as a whole.

I just find it irritating when you get no response at all. At least tell me if you didn't like it, tell me why if you can be bothered.

[MW_Jimmy]

I won't put my 2p into the hat for the moment, partly because I don't think it's very fair that I do. I agree with a number of points here and I hope some changes do occur though.

Alright, just this one quick 0.25p:

Why can't the mixes be download only as that way surely a wider range of people get to hear them and more critique would be forthcoming?

This is the only thing I will complete disagree with. Theres something to be said of being selective and actually putting things on a physical medium and making the effort in posting it. Its the whole ethos of this really - the fact that almost anybody can do it and it lets people express their musical interests that would otherwise be ignored.

If its not a mixed mix or a radio show, such a download would be ignored or ultimately, just a bunch of mp3s. I fear lazyness would really set in too (bung these in a download - my side of the bargain, upheld!).

[Mr Do 71]

Not keen on a theme, except maybe the voluntary one. As others have said I tend to either put stuff I've enjoyed recently into the mix or try and make a mix that the recipient might largely enjoy.

o/\o

[anewman]

I just find it irritating when you get no response at all. At least tell me if you didn't like it, tell me why if you can be bothered.

I find it irritating too. Okay, you've persuaded me. I agree it should be a rule that at the very least people acknowledge receipt of the CD and give some feedback as to whether they liked it or not.

[strawdonkey]

I find it irritating too. Okay, you've persuaded me. I agree it should be a rule that at the very least people acknowledge receipt of the CD and give some feedback as to whether they liked it or not.

I think this was the 'mandatory minimum' that was being campaigned for anyway.

[Guest]

Okay, based on all your thoughts here's what I think the changes to the rules should be in January. It's more like tightening up what happens already than any kind of radical change, so we'll see how it goes.

- You must give feedback on the disc by the end of month (with exceptions for late sending!), even if it's just to say you got it and liked/didn't like it.

- Participants not giving this minimum level of feedback will be treated the same way as non-senders

- Non/late sending rules will be enforced

- Maximum of one audio CD, no limit on length aside from this

- I won't outlaw "bonus" discs if you choose to include them but feedback on these is not compulsory

- Feel free to upload your mix after the disc is sent out and feedback arrives

- I'm considering suggesting an optional "mood" (looser than a theme!)

I hope that meets everyone's approval - if not just keep on with the discussion. Otherwise I'll see you all in the January thread!

[Mr Do 71]

Okay, based on all your thoughts here's what I think the changes to the rules should be in January. It's more like tightening up what happens already than any kind of radical change, so we'll see how it goes.

- You must give feedback on the disc by the end of month (with exceptions for late sending!), even if it's just to say you got it and liked/didn't like it.

- Participants not giving this minimum level of feedback will be treated the same way as non-senders

- Non/late sending rules will be enforced

- Maximum of one audio CD, no limit on length aside from this

- I won't outlaw "bonus" discs if you choose to include them but feedback on these is not compulsory

- Feel free to upload your mix after the disc is sent out and feedback arrives

- I'm considering suggesting an optional "mood" (looser than a theme!)

I hope that meets everyone's approval - if not just keep on with the discussion. Otherwise I'll see you all in the January thread!

The mood theme sounds much better, than having to a theme. I like.