Killzone 2

[Nick R]

Killzone is imo a really decent fps. I don't think it was trying to ever be a Halo-beater, that was just a comment from some stupid Sony PR bloke.

[SeanR]

FPS? Killzone? Killzone!?! FPS!?!

No.

It was an on-rails shooter, and don't ANYONE forget that.

[robdood]

Half Life 2.

...

The things that are really impressive with graphics this generation aren't things that need ungodly amounts of processing power and memory to do. They're things that we just didn't have the steady frame rate, scene complexity and resolution to show last gen, so weren't worth implementing. Such as small movements (engine vibration, camera shake, muscle deformation) and things that usually take up a small part of the screen (faces, particles, distant scenery).

that you even think the animation in HL2 is anywhere near the KZ2 trailer

I said before on another thread the PS3 is monster machine - given the time. The 360 has not been given time and early release reflect that. It suffers Pop-up issues and i don't care what you think but to me its testiment to a machines capabilty.

and another if you think that pop up in this day and age is related to the machine, and not the talent of the developer

[alex]

.::: Oh yes, can I just note here that we really need to find a solution to make ragdoll-physics actually look real if they are going to implemented in the future?

Dying doesn't 'unlock' a 1080 range of movement on limbs. It's becoming utterly jarring in these so called 'realistic' games.

I'm with you on this 100%. There needs to be proper weight implemented into these games, like Gears of War - kill a massive Boomer that probably weighs the same as a small car, then when you run into its corpse it's flapping and flailing everywhere like it's made of paper.

Thing is, I saw a Havok collision detection demo once and it looked incredibly realistic, there were hundreds of guys being thrown about and the arms/legs/body deformed perfectly. It was of course pre-rendered. S'all about the processing power! 10 years from now and we'll have it.

Also I think after the PS3 there needs to be a new contender in the console market. Maybe a really high spec console that's more expensive, like the Neo Geo was in its day.

[Super Craig]

The only difference between Sega and Sony is that Sega have some idea about making games.

Sony's programmers will be forced to drop out if things continue the way they are with Sony's stupid pricing and then we'll see a real change with pure PS2 IP crossing over.

[Talk Show Host]

I'm with you on this 100%. There needs to be proper weight implemented into these games, like Gears of War - kill a massive Boomer that probably weighs the same as a small car, then when you run into its corpse it's flapping and flailing everywhere like it's made of paper.

True. But in Gears' case I feel it was more of a development choice than inability. Imagine killing 3 boomers and then you need to run in their direction to avoid heavy fire. If you couldn't toss them around easily you would trip, stuck and have your pace slow down, making you an easy target.

[Qazimod]

Job Interview Simulator FTL.

I dunno, I could see it on the DS...maybe in a Phoenix Wright style battle of wits...

[Eighthours]

that you even think the animation in HL2 is anywhere near the KZ2 trailer

Don't be horrible to MK-1601. It must take real guts for him to come within 100 miles of another Killzone 2 discussion after what happened the last time.

The game could be unbelievably amazing. It could also be pap. Until we actually see something of it, we're all just pissing in the wind with our opinions.

Something for the inevitable Halo 3 comparisons, though: Bungie are allegedly pushing online FPS gaming massively forward again, with loads of new stuff to do with matchmaking and the like that we've never seen before (if we are to believe what's coming out from there, anyway). I think that there may well be legitimate competition between the single player games, but as far as multiplayer goes, I'll be very surprised if Guerilla aren't going to get raped.

[Crisp_Rapper]

True. But in Gears' case I feel it was more of a development choice than inability. Imagine killing 3 boomers and then you need to run in their direction to avoid heavy fire. If you couldn't toss them around easily you would trip, stuck and have your pace slow down, making you an easy target.

yup, my thoughts exactly.

[Dimahoo]

if you think that pop up in this day and age is related to the machine, and not the talent of the developer

I know that. It doesn't excuse lasyness though.

Its funny how its so evident on Test Drive Unlimited -

was this game rushed?

I mean - this is PC hardware - not some hard to fathom PS3. It really shouldn't be an issue these days or at least it should very hard to notice.

Motorstorm was rushed - maintained the detail - no pop up.

As for the Sony bit..

what i mean is that given Sony's current price point - they'll lose this battle.

Therefore programmers will be forced to program for 360/Wii.

(forget the Sega bit - i was pissed).

[Beertiger]

Comparing MotorStorm and TD:U is ludicrous. TD:U is a whole island for crikey's sake.

[MDY]

MotorStorm - (the Japanese version anyway) also is also clearly victim of rushed development.

Whereas the game engine itself is pretty stable, the number of tracks is pretty minimal, there's no online component for it and the racing options (you have career mode only) are the very definition of bare-bones...

Western versions may fix this - but I'd hardly hold it up as a shining example of a fully rounded title.

Deadlines and unyeilding publishers are the bane of the industry.

[Lerschumbo]

Where's the SONY IS TEH D00MED post?

[Meh]

LOL PS3

[MK-1601]

that you even think the animation in HL2 is anywhere near the KZ2 trailer

The facial animation? Perhaps you can explain how it isn't.

[alex]

Am I allowed to make a SONY IS TEH D00MED post?

Another, slightly serious question... How come swearing is allowed in topics but not in topic titles? Just curious, like. There seem to be very few 12 year old fanboys (Da 3SIX0 is DA WINNA!!1!!!1! PSFREEE SUX) frequenting this forum, so...

[Simmy]

To be honest, 90% of that trailer doesn't look that good anyway

[Dimahoo]

Hmm...yes....i think this post does seem to sum my.....no our thoughts on the machine....

ps3 suk its a woman console only women play itt only women do cuz 1one time me and my frends saw a woman play at eb games on ps3 so now we always laff when we tink of it lol its woman game lol etc etc etc buy da real consol da 360 cuz the game are awesome and awesome n more awesome butt the game are good like u can POWN nubs on x b o x live n call m shthead woman n shit etc etc etc.

[alex]

Hmm...yes....i think this post does seem to sum my.....no our thoughts on the machine....

I'm off to POWN some nubs.

[rubberducker]

Killzone will be shown at this upcoming E3 show in July after having a teaser shown at the earlier Game Developer's Conference. It is rumored to being slated for launch in September, but its official release date will most likely be announced after it is shown at E3.

so is there any news on this?

[Cyhwuhx]

so is there any news on this?

.::: I surely hope not. The game should do a sub and stay submerged until about two months before launch with all guns blazing.

It's the only way for the game to make 'the bad stuff' go away and delight.

[henofdoom]

To be honest, 90% of that trailer doesn't look that good anyway

How could anyone in their right mind have ever considered that to be realtime....?

[Norante]

.::: I surely hope not. The game should do a sub and stay submerged until about two months before launch with all guns blazing.

It's the only way for the game to make 'the bad stuff' go away and delight.

Precisely. But you know the suits, they will push for "creating consumer awareness" and fuck it up.

[rubberducker]

How could anyone in their right mind have ever considered that to be realtime....?

SCEA's Vice President, Jack Tretton, was quoted as saying that the Killzone footage, that is believed to be pre-rendered,"is definitely real" and "is real gameplay"

[RubberJohnny]

.::: I surely hope not. The game should do a sub and stay submerged until about two months before launch with all guns blazing.

It's the only way for the game to make 'the bad stuff' go away and delight.

They can't win, it'll never live up to the ridiculous expectations of the trailer.

A dev on GAF leaked that the 'behind closed doors' demo was actually footage of a multiplayer build that Guerilla Games has had running for a while.

Doesn't bode well when it was described as 'Black in HD' and 'A total Downgrade'. 1Up even said they expected to hear it was running on the Source engine.

[b00dles]

.::: I surely hope not. The game should do a sub and stay submerged until about two months before launch with all guns blazing.

It's the only way for the game to make 'the bad stuff' go away and delight.

Is that what they're doing with Duke Nukem 4ever then?

[therearerules]

They can't win, it'll never live up to the ridiculous expectations of the trailer.

In retrospect they must be regretting that trailer. As soon as a glimpse of KZ2 hits the net there'll be comparison videos and all of them will make the game look bad. Even if it's good it will still be dissapointing, and the deceit involved just makes it worse.

[Sprite Machine]

How could anyone in their right mind have ever considered that to be realtime....?

After seeing the level of detail already achieved in Gears of War, Killzone 2 doesn't look so far-fetched at all. It's just on a larger scale with some trickery and scripting going on. You'd probably never get a game to flow like that when playing it, but in terms of graphics and action, I'm sure we'll see something pretty comparable in the future.

Killzone's shite, anyway.

EDIT: Reply from ages ago.

Well firstly, it's 256 main RAM, and 256 video RAM. In fairness if they were leet enough they could coax a bit of the gfx RAM to do game things, but the likeyhood of that is small.

Secondly, since faical animations of that complexity (I'm talking CG movie quality animation here, cos that's what the KZ2 clip was) are 'just geometry' - why do you think they havent been used before?

Third; you are totally, totally wrong about scripted events being 'easier to create' - what does that even mean? Scripted events take a shed load more room in memory than randomly generated ones.

On the RAM point, I don't really know what graphics RAM and main RAM do that is so different, but I figure you need a set amount for each anyway, whether that's forced by the hardware or decided by the developer, so I don't see how it matters all that much.

Complexity of facial animation haven't been used to that extent before because it's processor-intensive (i.e. you need lots and lots of polygons moving together to make it look natural). Polygons aren't particularly memory-hungry as they're just points in space.

Finally, a scripted sequence of a war zone would be much easier than programming all the characters to act out a war. You are right that it would take more memory, but we're again only talking about numbers representing geometry and co-ordinates. Memory gets eaten up more by large amounts of high quality media, like music, sounds and textures than it would be implementing things we've already had in games for generations.

[Reynard]

Dunno if previously mentioned, but the Lead Designer on this has left.

[Cyhwuhx]

Is that what they're doing with Duke Nukem 4ever then?

.::: Not going top-side at all will probably kill your crew.