Fallout 3 - Official Thread

[mlewis]

Strange. My last save is literally just before you go into the radioactive chamber, having already killed Colonel Autumn. I completed the game as normal, and straight after the retrospective sequence it started Broken Steel with a '2 weeks later' message.

[Concept]

Okay, somewhat unrelated to the current conversation thread. It's been a few months post-release and I've been dwelling on what the game does wrong and what it does right. I think I'll get it out there and lay my main criticisms to rest because I'm constantly swinging back and forth between admiration and annoyance.

1) The AI doesn't offer any challenge and has little to no tactical awareness in terms of using the environment to its advantage.

2) Diluted RPG mechanics - the game isn't as balanced as the world deserves. You gain XP too fast and the recent increase of the level cap reduced the impact of the choices you make since everyone more or less becomes the same ultra-powerful player when you hit level 30. To make matters worse, Bethesda seem to acknowledge they don't give a crap for player consequence by offering

a perk at lv30 and saying screw it - reach 9 on all the Specials (or make it impossible to die by becoming a nuclear bomb when you get injured).

I understand they have to make the game accessible, but surely the DLC at this stage should be seeking to enrich the choices you make as opposed to making them mostly redundant? This is my main beef with Fallout 3 overall - I understand Bethesda have to appeal to a low common denominator in order to get it to sell, but if a casual RPG player like myself notices how watered down many of the mechanics are then there are problems in creating a credible, solid system.

3) There's little sense of consequence. It doesn't matter if Dog Meat dies now - he'll respawn! There's no threat to the environment in terms of having to scavenge for food to survive or be mindful as to how irradiated the water is. When you make good or evil choices the world very rarely reacts to it, and when it does it's usually in such a hamfisted and arbitary way that it's hard to take seriously.

4) The broken levelling and the fact that you don't really specalise any more now when facing pressure on having to choose how to spend your skill points wisely. The sense that you're crafting someone unique is reduced, and it's something I don't get at all. After all the criticism Oblivion faced of level scaling, why go and nerf your mechanics after the fact like this?

5) Mundane, stiff voice acting which misses a golden opportunity to give a wonderfully crafted world greater sense of place. This stuff has already been covered before, but I really wish sometimes that Bethesda would defer to a third-party of some kind when it comes to crafting characters. Source out better talent in the voice acting community and hire writers outside of videogaming.

7) Finally as much as I love VATS (it gives the combat an extra dimension and manages to mask many of the problems) it's not used anywhere near as effectively as it should. You should have to go for more body parts than just the head and it honestly baffles me why this wasn't paid attention whilst designing enemies and readjusting the best places to attack. Bethesda have partially modified this with the Albino Scorpian but a good 90% of the enemies are only worth taking down via the head. It might look pretty but VATS is far too shallow for its own good.

And yet, after all this, I still love the game. The thing is I think I'm beginning to realise that I love Fallout 3 for being a first-person adventure game as opposed to being an 'RPG'. I'm hardly a well worn RPG player, but I honestly think the more I consider where Fallout 3 fails the more I accept what many of the critics about Bethesda say. They're brilliant world builders but they're not good RPG developers - the things I enjoy most about the game are atmosphere, artstyle, the down the rabbit hole exploration feeling, the fantastic UI (I know it has it's critics on the PC but it's doing a good job in my opinion if I enjoy opening and browsing it well over 200 hours using a joypad), the rich diversity of the weapons and even the mini-games. All those aspects really aren't to do with the core RPG mechanics though. Fallout 3 fits into the same mould as Metroid Prime for me.

[marcus]

Go for a walk.

When I first installed it it took a few minutes for the game to recognise it, you'll get an in-game message on screen saying BS is installed and the level cap has been increased. If you completed it before you got that it might explain it.

Strangely, I left te game on for 30 mins or so then restarted it and it detected the BS content, seems to of fixed it now so cheers

[Padaxes]

Good post Concept, I agree with you on all that. Flawed but still great.

I often shoot the arms on tough opponents like mutant masters to make them drop their guns buying me more time.

I finally found dogmeat but as im level 22 its a bit pointless but I WISH i had found him right at the start, it almost makes me want to start the game again, he would have been awesome to have at the beginning, would have given the game a really good feeling I think.

[des]

Im gona feel so dumb for asking this, buit Ive downloaded Broken Steel but how do I actually play it? My save in the main game is right at the last moments, Ive carried on and completed the game expecting an option to carry on with BS but it just goes to the main menu. New starts a brand new game, Continue takes me back to the last part of the main game.

/confused

I had the exact same problem and needed to download a patch for Fallout 3 itself. I only connect my xbox to live when I'm downloading something so didn't automatically pick up the update for the game itself. The save I used was from just outside the purifier control bit, about ten seconds before the end.

[Yasawas]

Finished Broken Steel earlier, can't find a single thing I want to play now all the meat of this is gone. I rebought Oblivion this week thinking it might fill a hole, but that combat - ugh. And I'm totally with Concept above - there are glaring flaws all over the place and everything he says is spot on, but I still sunk 70 hours into it because I wanted to see what was in that building, I wanted to see what the next perk was, I wanted to see what the AI did if I killed this guy etc etc.

Anyway, loved that final mission -

Chinese stealth suit, Jingwei's shocksword and Enclave Deathclaw manipulation thinger - good times

[Garibaldi]

Playing on the hardest difficulty and just got into close range combat with a super mutant master and three brutes. :s

It's a bloody good job I had that new armour from Operation Anchoridge on, they only nearly killed me! I'd really recommend this difficulty actually as, even on level 17 with power armour, I find taking on more than two higher ranking super mutants to be a daunting task - just as it should be. The ruins of downtown DC have become somewhere to fear once again.

[Pioscene]

Just started The Pitt, and while I'm sure it's been asked and answered previously, I have to know -

When you get your equipment taken away from you near the start, can you get it all back?

[Joyrex-J9]

Just started The Pitt, and while I'm sure it's been asked and answered previously, I have to know -

When you get your equipment taken away from you near the start, can you get it all back?

Yes.

[Garibaldi]

Just started The Pitt, and while I'm sure it's been asked and answered previously, I have to know -

When you get your equipment taken away from you near the start, can you get it all back?

Yes, though for me it wasn't made clear when so I marched past that point, making do with what I had, and had to check an online FAQ to find out where.

[simms]

I wanted to try and finish Oblivion (I see Fallout 3 as a sequal becuase of the similarities) before starting this but I've been trying to finish Oblivion for the last 3 years and the combat and the level scaling is starting to grate. Has anyone finished Oblivion then started this game ?

[Boozy The Clown]

Finally purchased and built the Rock It Launcher. What a riot, Decapitating raiders with empty Nuka bottles and tea cups. Went on the rampage with it and cleared out Evergreen Mills of all hostiles. I also downloaded BS and the Pitt and was pleased to find that you don't need to have completed the main quest in order to benefit from the new level cap. The new Super Mutants are a bit of a pain though, massive bullet sponges.

[Bojangle]

I fucking adore this game, I can't stop playing it.

Blitzed through the main quest to get the main chunk of the story out of the way, did that as a good character and hit the 20 cap. Started my evil character and she's basically a total bitch. She's my proper character, a wanderer of the Wastes. Exploring every nook and cranny, taking it slow. Clearing each and every location of it's holdings. I'm level 13 with her now and all I've done main quest wise is go to Megaton

which no longer exists!

. I'm having so much fun just exploring the Wastes. Basically surviving. Looting a location then getting back to my house and selling what I don't need, storing what I do. Most recent discovery was the town of Andale. What a dark secret they have!

Can't wait to get stuck into The Pitt and Broken Steel. Despite finishing the 'main quest' it feels like I've only scratched the surface.

[Joyrex-J9]

the labyrinth design of the Steelyard is something I'd like to see brought over to Point Look. It was probably the most satisfying self-contained area to explore in the entire game - felt very Valve-like.

Yes, it's an amazing area, I just kept discovery more and more of it.

And climbing that refinery/tower part, it seriously gave me a little bout of vertigo. As you say, one of the best areas in the game.

[waddie]

7) Finally as much as I love VATS (it gives the combat an extra dimension and manages to mask many of the problems) it's not used anywhere near as effectively as it should. You should have to go for more body parts than just the head and it honestly baffles me why this wasn't paid attention whilst designing enemies and readjusting the best places to attack. Bethesda have partially modified this with the Albino Scorpian but a good 90% of the enemies are only worth taking down via the head. It might look pretty but VATS is far too shallow for its own good.

Headshots are far too easy (and there's an interview floating around somewhere where they acknowledge this), but every body part is worth shooting at. Shots to the head don't automatically do more damage than elsewhere (though humans generally wear more armour on their body than their head) and tough enemies are much easier to deal with if you take the time to cripple and disarm them than if you just spam shots at their heads. Not to mention the comedy gold of taking out an entire gang of Raiders by shooting a grenade out of somebody's hand, or frenzying ants/robots.

Your list is missing "vastly overpowered stealth". Nobody ever twigs you're there even when the dismembered corpses of their compatriots are spiralling across their line of sight, and you can spend minutes slowly punching a Deathclaw to bits while it shuffles around at [CAUTION].

I thought most of the quests were fairly poor. The only main quest I really liked was Tranquility Lane. Some of the minor side-quests are pretty good, but I'd pick The Pitt as the template for any sequel. A genuine dilemma however you're playing, without the blunt good/evil signposting than blights the main game. I'd love to see Karma ditched in favour of your decisions affecting how different factions react to you.

It's baffling to me how bad at overt storytelling Bethesda are, considering how well they tell stories with their environment building.

[Padaxes]

Grrrrr dogmeat is invincible , apparently a rare bug , but it means he can take on anything and kill them (eventually) as enemies always attack him first as well I never have to fight anything any more, kind of ruins things!

[imp]

Grrrrr dogmeat is invincible , apparently a rare bug , but it means he can take on anything and kill them (eventually) as enemies always attack him first as well I never have to fight anything any more, kind of ruins things!

Are you sure he's invincible? He's got pretty high health, and doesn't die unless he's say, fighting a deathclaw.

Still, at least you won't have to reload if he dies!

[Vulgar Monkey]

2 Giant Radscorpions will fuck him up, I don't care how invincible he is.

[son_of_helvetica]

Yes, it's an amazing area, I just kept discovery more and more of it.

And climbing that refinery/tower part, it seriously gave me a little bout of vertigo. As you say, one of the best areas in the game.

Agreed. It's wildly atmospheric too.

[Padaxes]

No he went toe to toe with two deathclaws and had full health afterwards, i sort of wondered around them for a while then finished them off because it was taking forever.

Annoying!

[amnesiac_3]

No he went toe to toe with two deathclaws and had full health afterwards, i sort of wondered around them for a while then finished them off because it was taking forever.

Annoying!

I have a similar situation with Dogmeat. I only just found him at about level 24. He never really seems to lose energy during battles. If he does lose a bar or two he always has full health at the end of the fight. I thought it was a little odd too, but assumed it was my devastating character and battle strategies at work.

I've got the perk that

spawns another dog if he dies anyway

. Not sure if that makes a difference to his health, because I read somewhere that apparently

Dogmeat's Puppy has more health than the original Dogmeat

.

[Joyrex-J9]

Got to the point in The Pitt where I need to "decide"

Take the baby/cure or side with Ashur

But it doesn't feel like a dilemma at all,

Ashur blathered for about 2 conversation choices

before running off outside! so I have no real idea what the impact of my decision will be.

Might just toss a coin.

Bit of an anti-climax

[jcafarley]

Just done the last quest in Broken Steel. If I'm honest, I think I preferred The Pitt.

Same here, Broken Steel felt like 'more of the same,' just harder, whereas The Pitt felt more like something different. I'd like to see Bethesda do something different with the next round of DLC, the UFO thing sounds interesting, but I'd like to see more historical stuff. I'd like to find out exactly what happened during the war, did the enemy manage to get any kind of a foothold into the US, are there any outposts left? Just because the US government has been destroyed doesn't mean that all countries have developed in the same way...

[Rudi von Starnberg]

Heh, you can't have explored Washington itself that thoroughly!

[imp]

No he went toe to toe with two deathclaws and had full health afterwards, i sort of wondered around them for a while then finished them off because it was taking forever.

Annoying!

All companions automatically revert to full health after a battle as long as nothing else is in the area... maybe you were just lucky with the attacks he received! BUt yeah, it does sound like he's invincible if you just let him get on with it by himself...

[Monkeyboy]

Got to the point in The Pitt where I need to "decide"

Take the baby/cure or side with Ashur

But it doesn't feel like a dilemma at all,

Ashur blathered for about 2 conversation choices

before running off outside! so I have no real idea what the impact of my decision will be.

Might just toss a coin.

Bit of an anti-climax

I'm presuming you've made your choice now, but if you haven't, don't read my spoiler:

I liked it. I think because a poor little baby was involved. In the end, I took the baby but ended up killing his mother, when she objected. I felt horrible, even though I was doing the "right" thing. And in my mind, I imagined what the ramifications of this act in the Pitt might be, years down the line, when the boy was grown up, perhaps learning the truth of his early years, and the Wastelander who murdered his mother. Would he seek me out in the Wastelands, bent on revenge?

[And]

So, ploughed some more time into this, playing on hard, and have taken some xp boosting perks to help get to lvl 30 in the remaining quests.

Did operation anchorage. It's pretty good. Yes it's short, and probably not worth the money on a time vs cost basis. But it was something different. And given the number of hours I have spent on this game in total i kind of don't mind that it was overpriced.

Plus you get some really cool kit as rewards.

So I've started the pitt. I went back to megaton and put all my one off guns into a locker, with pretty much all of my valuable kit.

I left with nothing to my name but an AK, an uzi, some tesla armour, a stealth hood, my lucky shades and my lucky 8 ball.

Good job as it all gets confiscated. Is there anyway of getting this stuff back now or do i need to wait until the end of the pitt?

Anyhow, I have been sent out into the wasteland to forage for steel, with nothing but a loincloth, an auto axe and a .32 pistol.

And now i have what i havent had since i was a fresh from the vault pipsqueak. Fear. The pit is genuinely unnerving, the trogs are horrible. Think the goblin things from the descent. Not nice. And they attack en mass. I'm really missing my flamethrower and gatling laser.

Best game ever? Possibly.

[Mogster]

Speaking of Operation Anchorage, it's being reduced to 560 points for a Deal of the Week from June 15th to June 21st. I might as well bite at that price, which will get me a full set of DLC.

[Bojangle]

I really enjoyed Operation: Anchorage. Little short, but for me the

Chinese Stealth Armour

made up for it.

[Bojangle]

So, ploughed some more time into this, playing on hard, and have taken some xp boosting perks to help get to lvl 30 in the remaining quests.

Did operation anchorage. It's pretty good. Yes it's short, and probably not worth the money on a time vs cost basis. But it was something different. And given the number of hours I have spent on this game in total i kind of don't mind that it was overpriced.

Plus you get some really cool kit as rewards.

So I've started the pitt. I went back to megaton and put all my one off guns into a locker, with pretty much all of my valuable kit.

I left with nothing to my name but an AK, an uzi, some tesla armour, a stealth hood, my lucky shades and my lucky 8 ball.

Good job as it all gets confiscated. Is there anyway of getting this stuff back now or do i need to wait until the end of the pitt?

Anyhow, I have been sent out into the wasteland to forage for steel, with nothing but a loincloth, an auto axe and a .32 pistol.

And now i have what i havent had since i was a fresh from the vault pipsqueak. Fear. The pit is genuinely unnerving, the trogs are horrible. Think the goblin things from the descent. Not nice. And they attack en mass. I'm really missing my flamethrower and gatling laser.

Best game ever? Possibly.

I also started The Pitt today, great fun and setting. Very very unnerving atmosphere. Finished up the main quest line and am currently wandering around looking for Steel Ingots. Just a handful more to find.

Don't worry, you'll get it back once you have a certain fight