The old Man Utd Thread

[DC Lemon]

Next week's match against Everton is the key one for me. If we win and maintain the lead (or heaven forbid extend it) at least we know we'll go to Stamford Bridge on top, even if it's just on goal difference. You really can't predict what will happen in-between when we play at Eastlands and they go to Arsenal, but I'm certainly hopeful that we'll come out of those grudge matches with nothing worse than the same points difference as we go into them.

[little che]

The goal difference advantage is in the bag. I agree that Everton at Goodison is the key to the title. If we get through that then I can't see us throwing it all away. but, Everton are going great guns (apart from yesterday anyway) and without a defence to speak of, its going to be a tough task.

[emjay2kay]

I really fear for us now. I knew we'd drop points today, and chelsea are getting all they're players back and winning games when they need to. We need to pick it up next week. Fuck the CL and FA cup, all I want at the end of the season is that premiership trophy.

They're talking about this on talkSport. "What would Man Utd fans rather win, and what would Alex Ferguson rather win?"

The answer seems to be the Premiership and CL respectively. When you look back on this season, winning the premiership won't look like the "someone stopping Chelsea "buying" another title", it'll just be one of Man Utd's 9 or so premiership titles.

Winning the Champions League, though, would surely be much more satisfying, especially if you were to beat Chelsea in the final, no? Ferguson could look back and say he managed to win 2 European Cups. I'm positive he'd prefer that to saying 1 European Cup and 9 title as opposed to 8.

Put it this way. Over the last few pages, you've been discussing winning the Chapions League in 99. Some of you jumped over the settee, slid on your knees on the carpet and couldn't do anything but shout the house down. And you remember it all perfectly as a brilliant, brilliant night. Do you all do the same thing on the last day of the season after winning the league? Can you remember what you did on April 17th 1996 after you won the Premiership by beating Everton 1-0 and Arsenal only managed a draw? Or however it was that you won the title that season?

I'm a Boro fan so have no idea what you do after winning the league. I'd wager it's more of a "job well done", firm handshake kind of feeling than the mental joy that followed your Champions League win in 99

Amen to that, Sister!

The Premiership is the big one IMO. The others are just cup competitions that any lesser team (see Liverpool) can win.

The UCL should go back to the good days when only the 'Champions' were in it.

So, (old argument) Man Utd wouldn't have won it in 99, and you'd be looking forward to that UEFA Cup final (probably) about now, right?

The tournament is fine as it is.

[dogsout]

At what point did I say it was so easy to win?

You implied it by saying "any lesser team can win it".

That's moronic and you know it.

You're quite right there, it is. So is saying "any lesser team can win the Champions League". You can't fluke your way to the European Cup. You're playing games over two legs so a high level of consistency is required. Saying winning the CL is 'just' having a good cup run is ridiculous. I'm off now anyway, before I get accused of trolling.

[Gerald_D]

Ronaldo did the double in the PFA awards.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/6582201.stm

[Mr Do 71]

Ronaldo did the double in the PFA awards.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/6582201.stm

Well done Ronaldo

[The old John Vaughan]

Can't help but think that the premiership has perhaps slipped us by now, the season's just maybe taken too much out of us.

Hopefully we'll be back hard enough to annihilate chelsea in the FA cup and remind them who the best team was this season.

I'm confident Man Utd will win either the league or the UCL. I did say at the beginning of the season that you would win the league, but Chelsea the UCL. I'm less confident of that now but I'm going to stick by my guns.

[Takizawa]

More importantly is this:

PFA Premier League Team of the Year 2007:

Edwin van der Sar, Gary Neville, Nemanja Vidic, Rio Ferdinand, Patrice Evra (all Man Utd);

Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, Cristiano Ronaldo (all Man Utd) and Steven Gerrard (Liverpool);

Didier Drogba (Chelsea) and Dimitar Berbatov (Tottenham)

How Gary Neville got there ahead of Steve Finnan is as wrong as it is ridiculous.

[Takizawa]

I'm a big fan of Gary Neville but thats just wrong wrong wrong.

[Chewylegs]

Everton/Bolton nearly got into the UCL this year (one still might). All they'd need is a good cup run to win it then.

That is ridiculous mate. i'm with you on the, call it Champions League so it should only be the champions of each country but I think a name change is needed rather than returning to the older format. Saying Bolton having a"good cup run" would be all they need to win the Champs League is stupid. Look how well Everton did in their first effort at Champions League football, bloody pathetic. Thats because they are not good enough. You need to be a very good team to win it, thats why Liverpool did it 2 years ago!

[Chewylegs]

So, (old argument) Man Utd wouldn't have won it in 99, and you'd be looking forward to that UEFA Cup final (probably) about now, right?

Fair point I think.

[Chewylegs]

More importantly is this:

PFA Premier League Team of the Year 2007:

Edwin van der Sar, Gary Neville, Nemanja Vidic, Rio Ferdinand, Patrice Evra (all Man Utd);

Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, Cristiano Ronaldo (all Man Utd) and Steven Gerrard (Liverpool);

Didier Drogba (Chelsea) and Dimitar Berbatov (Tottenham)

Probably have to agree with Giggs, Scholes, Ronaldo, Vidic and maybe Evra. However, as someone said, Finnan has been far superior to Neville, Carson or Foster have been better than Van Der Sar, Carragher should be in there somewhere, Gerrard shouldn't (he ain't had a brilliant season) and Fabregas has been immense all season.

A little over the top in my view towards your team. Would be interesting to hear peoples views on this.

Ronaldo player of the year is about right though.

[SeanR]

it'll come down to goal-difference!!!

[bowser123]

However, as someone said, Finnan has been far superior to Neville, Carson or Foster have been better than Van Der Sar, Carragher should be in there somewhere, Gerrard shouldn't (he ain't had a brilliant season) and Fabregas has been immense all season.

Firstly I think these votes started just after Christmas which explains how VDS got in. Upto a month ago he'd been as good as anybody, it's only of late he's looked shite. Keepers are hard. Cech has been utterly amazing since coming back, but seeing as he missed so much means he can't really get a place. The two you mentioned only look good because they have a billion saves a match and I'm not sure they'd be as impressive playing for a better team. James has been good, but still suffers from his usual one idiotic mistake a game syndrome. MotM against Utd, yet he still managed to fuck up massively for the late goal that could have been critical.

So I don't think there has been an outstanding goalie.

Totally disagree about Nev, he well deserves his place. He's the best around and had his best season for ages, therefore he's a shoo-in for me. He creates and attacks way more effectively than the others and is utterly sound defensively. I'm sure Utd also had the best defensive record a month or so ago when he was in, plus the fact he's the captain.

I don't like Ferdinand and think Carvallho or JT should have been in ahead of him and your scouser. Essien should blatantly be in there.

it'll come down to goal-difference!!!

I'm not sure Utd will get beat by Chelsea to allow this.

Then again, if it does happen it'd be perfect. Teach Chelsea a lesson it's not nice only bothering to play attacking football when you're 2 nil down.

[kamaran]

Ronaldo doesn't look right in a suit

lol he looks like a waiter

[Spudulis]

Ronaldo doesn't look right in a suit

I looks like he should be in Thunderbirds there with his shiny face.

[DC Lemon]

Totally disagree about Nev, he well deserves his place. He's the best around and had his best season for ages, therefore he's a shoo-in for me. He creates and attacks way more effectively than the others and is utterly sound defensively. I'm sure Utd also had the best defensive record a month or so ago when he was in, plus the fact he's the captain.

Yep, Red Nev was having a fantastic season before his injury, getting forward more than ever and still a better crosser of the ball than most wingers.

[Reynard]

Everton/Bolton nearly got into the UCL this year (one still might). All they'd need is a good cup run to win it then.

How would you feel if Everton won the UCL by finishing 4th in the Premiership?

Everton, the best team in Europe?

Don't agree with that at all - you think Bolton or Everton could go all the way?

Just taking either of our respective paths in this year's competition - you think Bolton or Everton could be in the semis now?

Would Everton have emulated our run to winning it in '05 (Bayer L, Juve, Chelsea, Milan)?

No chance.

I see your logic, but neither team's good enough or (perhaps more importantly) has the experience needed.

[bowser123]

A few facts for Mourinho to look at while complaining about Man Utd not conceeding penalties

In honesty Jose knows all of this, he's just trying (and succeeding) to be more entertaining than his football team.

Fair play to him, he's pretty funny, especially when ranting about the end of democracy.

[Chewylegs]

If Everton/bolton make the UCL and have a good cup run they could win it.

What's so hard to understand?

No. Simple as that. Going back to your original post, I can understand wanting to win the Premiership over the Champions League as I would prefer to as well. But to belittle the competition by saying that anyone with a good cup run can win it is plain wrong. Its no different (in a less extreme way) from Dogsout saying anyone can win the premiership. A good run and some luck is all you need.

[Reynard]

Wouldn't one of them have won the FA Cup by now if it was that easy?

[Spudulis]

In honesty Jose knows all of this, he's just trying (and succeeding) to be more entertaining than his football team.

Fair play to him, he's pretty funny, especially when ranting about the end of democracy.

I think its more to take the attention away from Chelsea blowing such a massive chance to pull closer to Man Utd. What do all the papers say today? Mourinho might be in trouble with the FA. Not a Chelsea blow it/Title chance over type headline anywhere near the back pages. Pressure taken off players to get on with it. Its what he's brilliant at and the press fall for it every time. Give them a good soundbite and they'll ignore the real story.

[Chewylegs]

A few facts for Mourinho to look at while complaining about Man Utd not conceeding penalties

MANCHESTER UNITED v CHELSEA

5-------Penalties won--------4

4----Penalties conceded----2

I don't quite get that stat. I'm sure I'm missing something so I'll await someone putting me right but how can Chelsea conceded only 2 penalties against Man United when Man United have won 5 against Chelsea? Is there a difference between conceding and winning? Perhaps the 3 not conceded by Chelsea were dives by United's players, hence 'winning' a penalty?!

[Spudulis]

No. Simple as that. Going back to your original post, I can understand wanting to win the Premiership over the Champions League as I would prefer to as well. But to belittle the competition by saying that anyone with a good cup run can win it is plain wrong. Its no different (in a less extreme way) from Dogsout saying anyone can win the premiership. A good run and some luck is all you need.

Were Porto that much better than Bolton and Everton?

[Reynard]

Imagine if Everton did win the UCL. Would the Liverpool fans refer them to the best team in Europe?

No, just like I knew and admitted that we weren't the best team in Europe for winning it in '05.

I'm not missing your point - mine is that there's a big limit in the CL for 'having a good run'.

You can't really have one, due to the general quality of the opposition.

Look at Porto - they needed a massive slice of luck to overcome you lot (Scholes' wrongly disallowed goal?).

[bowser123]

I don't quite get that stat.

No, this season Utd have conceded 4 in total and won 5, against all Premier League opposition. Chelsea have conceded 2 and won 4. So the argument that Chelsea never get penalties and Utd never concede them is plain wrong, especially as 3 of those given away by Utd have been at OT.

Look at Porto - they needed a massive slice of luck to overcome you lot (Scholes' wrongly disallowed goal?).

Their free kick for the winning goal was never a foul, plus it was an almighty fuck up by Howard as well as the disallowed goal.

[Chewylegs]

IF Everton were capable of winning the Champions Leaque then they would certainly be up there with the best in Europe. Anyhow, how is the 'best' team in Europe decided on? Say Man U win the Premiership, it doesn't make them the best in Europe does it? Same for Barce winning La Liga or Inter winning Serie A. You can't really say who is the best in Europe but the Champions League brings together the best teams from around Europe and sticks them in a competition. Its not perfect but its the closest thing we have to seeing who can beat who across Europe.

I just think your attitude suggests that The Champions League is a nothing competition that anyone can win, when in reality your boys haven't been good enough to win it in 8 years.

[Chewylegs]

No, this season Utd have conceded 4 in total and won 5, against all Premier League opposition. Chelsea have conceded 2 and won 4. So the argument that Chelsea never get penalties and Utd never concede them is plain wrong, especially as 3 of those given away by Utd have been at OT.

Ah right, cool. Thought I'd missed something but due to it saying Manchester United v Chelsea above I read it that way. Yep, its of course bullshit but he's just trying to make up for his teams failings.

[Chewylegs]

Were Porto that much better than Bolton and Everton?

Yes, I do believe they were. I think they are perhaps the weakest team to win it in recent times but they would have dealt with Bolton or Everton. They beat enough good teams on the way to winning it.

[Reynard]

Their free kick for the winning goal was never a foul, plus it was an almighty fuck up by Howard as well as the disallowed goal.

Well, there you go - that night should've been their last one for that campaign.