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The old Man Utd Thread


ThePixelbarks
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:eyebrows:

We were better than them in the second half but if the linesman can't spot an offside from 20 yards what are you supposed to do! Someone please nuke Neville from orbit as well, a couple of decent crosses does not make a decent player and he has been universally awful against any half decent winger. Still don't think the league is decided yet as I can't see Chelsea getting 3 points at Anfield but it doesn't make things any easier.

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Yeah, our first half performance didn't really deserve anything. In the second, we were without a cutting edge. So, come on Liverpool, Tottenham and possibly Villa, Chelsea have to drop point in the run-in. Even if we can make up ground, seven losses is not title-winning form, we have got to improve. Team for Bayern;

           Berbatov

Nani                     Valencia

             Giggs

      Fletcher  Carrick

Evra                       Rafael

          Vida   Rio

              VDS

Doesn't really solve the lack of great finishers, but I'm not sure we have a solution to that.

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Yeah, our first half performance didn't really deserve anything. In the second, we were without a cutting edge. So, come on Liverpool, Tottenham and possibly Villa, Chelsea have to drop point in the run-in.

Chelsea thrashed Villa last week.

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Berbatov is not good. I don't care if he scores in lots of nothing games. He cannot seem to stamp his authority over any defence except the kind of deflated porous ones you find at the bottom of the table. I think he is flattered by the team mates around him. I'd love to see him thrown to Stoke or somewhere and see his goal tally at the end of that season. His positioning is just off, he never seems to find space - he has exceptional ball control and makes some lovely passes but as a striker I can't remember the last time he made a goal from nothing as someone like Torres does game in game out.

Man U need a striker next season.

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Can't believe that decision for the Drogba goal, we weren't the best team but it should have been a draw. Shocking linesman work there. :eyebrows:

Shocking decision, but so was allowing Macheda's goal to stand. Anelka should've had a penalty and arguably Park should've had one too. So I reckon things evened themselves up - draw wouldn't have been fair on Chelsea who took the game to you.

Gotta say though, you're a totally different prospect without Rooney and I think you may end up crashing out the CL on Wed and finishing 3rd. I just hope he's back to full fitness in time for the World Cup!

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Dammit, City are going to be fourth aren't they? Playing Champions League football. ARGH. If I could've swapped anyone for Liverpool at the top, you can bet they would've been right at the end of the list. We can add one more to the banner hanging at the Stretford End, but come the end of the season, City fans will feel like they've won a trophy.

Also, Berbatov is great, but few strikers can put up with the 'attention' they receive, playing the lone striker in a game like that. He's not Rooney, Drogba or Torres. We knew that. I don't think our failings were all about missing Rooney though. Yes, he is banging them in for us and when we were on top, we lacked his cutting edge. We weren't on top for most of the game though, and probably deserved to lose. Maybe he would've raised the rest of the team, but if they played like they did he would've made no difference to the result.

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I think a confident striker going at chelsea's defence like a burning dog from hell from the first minute and able to shoot on target from anywhere around the penalty box, and able to read crosses better than entire teams (see Bayern goal) would have made a difference to the result.

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Berbatov is a concern. As I said earlier, most of his goals have been rather irrelevant in the long-run. Apart from maybe Inter last season I can't remember him ever performing against the biggest clubs. Yeah he's had less chance this season but there's a reason for that.

The midfield, though, is really where the games against Bayern and Chelsea were lost. Is Scholes still deserving of a place at the really really top level, or should he play mainly against the lower half of the table sides. He mainly seems to be on the pitch to keep playing long diagonal balls to the wingers which he's quite good at but he's no longer orchestrating games really. I'm not sure what the answer is to be honest. I see Gibson as a good striker of the ball and not much else. Hargreaves and Anderson are injured and Anderson's lack of progress was worrying even prior to that. Hargreaves will forever be a long term injury concern. Park did a job against Milan but realistically it's not a long term position for him. Which just leaves Carrick, Fletcher and Giggs. Giggs is 36, Carrick's form has been uneven. It's still the biggest problem for the team imo.

Apart from maybe Neville. Retire please. You were great but you're just not up to it anymore.

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Dammit, City are going to be fourth aren't they? Playing Champions League football. ARGH. If I could've swapped anyone for Liverpool at the top, you can bet they would've been right at the end of the list.

Well there is one thing you guys can do before the season's out to try and stop them getting it :D

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Completely agree on the midfield, as soon as Anderson got injured it really highlighted the lack of cover we have in there, especially when we deploy a 4-3-3 a lot of the time.

Scholes has probably been better this season than last IMO but his lack of pace make him a liability at the base of a 3-man midfield at times. Whats worries me is that our run of good form seemed to coincide with some consistency in selection, now with Giggs back, Park playing all over the place and Nani swapping wings we're seeing a return to the mix-and-match selection that has cost us enough points already this season.

I was actually hoping Neville would get sent off for violent conduct so he would get suspended. Rafael puts in one bad performance* against Milan, yet Neville has done the same 3, maybe 4 times since and there is still no sign of him being given a rest. If he starts on Wednesday I will honestly consider not even watching the match.

* I didn't think it was that bad at all given the circumstances.

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Shocking decision, but so was allowing Macheda's goal to stand. Anelka should've had a penalty and arguably Park should've had one too. So I reckon things evened themselves up - draw wouldn't have been fair on Chelsea who took the game to you.

Gotta say though, you're a totally different prospect without Rooney and I think you may end up crashing out the CL on Wed and finishing 3rd. I just hope he's back to full fitness in time for the World Cup!

Have to say, i'm not 100% sure that there was anything wrong with Kiko's goal, he had his arms out sure, but to me it loved like it was a chest down, i'll have another look on MotD.

Seemed to me that there should have been a two stonewall penalties, and it's rediculous that at least one of the two (Park and Anelka) wasn't given.

Chelsea did deserve to win, but I still think it should have been a draw based on the actual balls hitting the net legally (like i say i'll have another look at Kiko's later and might change my mind). United were not in the 1st half, did a lot better and had Chelsea panicing for small periods in the second without ever looking dangerous.

I think it's likely that we will finish third and go out on Wednesday too unfortunately the way we are playing at the moment too.

I'm and England fan too, but i'm a United fan 100 times more than that, and the whole being fit for the World Cup thing is scant consolation for us really, infact pretty irksome tbh (some of the chat in the Football thread laughing at Rooney being injured the other day, while still hoping he could be fit for England was pretty shitty IMO - not at you obviously, just while i'm on the subject sort of thing. :D)

-----------------------------------------

I said it at the beginning of the season, that I thought we were going to need a lot of rebuilding in the summer, in a number of key positions specifically, the age of the players we are having to rely on is really showing (Neville and Scholes in particular).

I just don't ever feel confident that we are going score goals without Rooney (and this isn't a swipe at Berbatov) its not that Berbatov isn't capable of scoring as many as Rooney, its just that without Rooney we are lacking a huge amount of attacking build up play as well as the goals. Berbatov isn't a playmaker in the same way as Rooney, and without we seem all out of ideas. All to often today we resorted to booting a long ball to the wings where Chelsea would close ranks and harry the player off the ball, and balls which did come in from the wings were inaccurate and to nobody in particular (Berbatov was not always in the best position, but he also always have at least two players on him at all times, he simply didn't have the service or space to play, and ended up drifting back or wide, leaving nobody in a threatening position at all.

Despite the talent of Nani, Valencia, Paddy, Giggs and Scholes, the hard work or Fletcher, Park and Carrick we simply don't constitute much of a thread to a decent, well organized and disciplined side without Rooney.

Last season in this game we had Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez and Berbatov at our disposal. This year we had an isolated and harried Berbatov and 18 year old Kiko Macheda. It's simply not enough and we can't rely on one player so much if we want to retain our trophy.

Unfortunately I can't see much in the way of significant investment in reliable and proven talent in the summer given the financial situation, and as much as I respect building a squad of young talent for the future (as we always have done under SAF) there comes a point where you have to invest in the current team to keep moving forward in the short term too.

Does anyone think there will be money to spend in the summer?

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I just don't think the team can support another top class striker when we end up playing a 4-3-3 for half of our games each season. The only way it would happen is with someone like Benzema who can play in wider positions when required. It's not Berbatov's fault he doesn't really fit into a 4-3-3 and he's generally been very good playing in a 4-4-2 behind Rooney.

I actually wouldn't be surprised to see Macheda start against Bayern.

I think there will be money to spend in the summer but where I have no idea. Midfield probably but I could see Fergie doing a Wenger and seeing Anderson and Hargreaves as new signings. We've already bought Smalling so I doubt we'll see another defender unless Vidic leaves. Full backs? I'm completely happy with a Rafael/O'Shea combo but I seem to be in the minority there. Could probably do with a left winger although maybe Obertan will resurface at some point. Will be interesting to see if Cleverly goes out on loan to a PL team or comes into the United first team (as Darren Ferguson has suggested will happen) as he always looks like he's got the drive and pace to be an excellent midfielder.

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I just don't think the team can support another top class striker when we end up playing a 4-3-3 for half of our games each season. The only way it would happen is with someone like Benzema who can play in wider positions when required. It's not Berbatov's fault he doesn't really fit into a 4-3-3 and he's generally been very good playing in a 4-4-2 behind Rooney.

I was under the impression we played the way we do because we only have one world class striker - we play to the strengths of what we have, and I doubt its a dream scenario for Fergie to not have a backup to Rooney . There are many teams that have more than one world class striker. Barca for example, Real, Chelsea, hell even City do. We did until this season.

Best case is Red Knights take over and we are able to spend in the summer.

In reality it'll be the same as this summer I think. Money spent but it won't be enough.

If, in some dream scenario, the Red Knights were actually able to tempt the Galzers out from their money pit this summer (finishing 3rd and going out of the CL might help that), i'm not 100% based on what i've seen of their plans that there would be instant access to cash anyway, it would take a while to get back in business and recover revenue streams which had been allocated to covering the previous dept (not to mention the new dept we would need to fund the takeover - albeit a less perilous and Glazer serving deal).

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I was under the impression we played the way we do because we only have one world class striker - we play to the strengths of what we have, and I doubt its a dream scenario for Fergie to not have a backup to Rooney . There are many teams that have more than one world class striker. Barca for example, Real, Chelsea, hell even City do. We did until this season.

We played 4-3-3 last year when we had Ronaldo and Tevez to pick from as well.

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