The old Man Utd Thread

[Gabzy]

Tevez is looking better with every game and I'm sure we'll see a lot of quality goals from him this season. My biggest concern is the way the whole team is failing to break down defenses this season. We're just not creating enough goal scoring chances. I mean...why? Not much has changed from the team that scored the most goals in the premiership last season. I'm hoping it's just a matter of players not being at the top of their game yet as it's still October. But I don't know how much longer we can rely on 1-0 wins.

[cantonarv]

Tevez is looking better with every game and I'm sure we'll see a lot of quality goals from him this season. My biggest concern is the way the whole team is failing to break down defenses this season. We're just not creating enough goal scoring chances. I mean...why? Not much has changed from the team that scored the most goals in the premiership last season. I'm hoping it's just a matter of players not being at the top of their game yet as it's still October. But I don't know how much longer we can rely on 1-0 wins.

I think a big portion of the blame lies with Carrick and Scholes they look well off the pace. They should be DOMINATING the midfield but they are not clicking. I cant wait for OwenH to get fully fit then to see the difference.

[Gabzy]

Yeah, I agree with you there. One thing I've noticed consistently over the last few games is that Scholes' main role is getting the ball from Rio or Vidic, turning, taking a look up and then kicking it up towards Rooney or Tevez. And most of the time he has acres of space in front of him! I find myself yelling at the tv "run with it!! take it forward!!" but he just doesn't seem to do it any more. I wonder if it's how he's been told to play or if he's just not up to the pace yet. Either way, with Hargreaves behind him he'll be forced to move forward so I hope he's fit soon.

[cantonarv]

OwenH out for 4 weeks . Please let him not be another Saha! 17mil and hes only played 3 games for us FFS!!

[dizogg]

He's played more games than that for you! Yeah, about 20 games.

[El Pibe]

He's played more games than that for you! Yeah, about 20 games.

I think he's talking about Hargreaves!

[Ravern]

I think a big portion of the blame lies with Carrick and Scholes they look well off the pace. They should be DOMINATING the midfield but they are not clicking. I cant wait for OwenH to get fully fit then to see the difference.

Last night Carrick and Scholes were played completely out of the game by the central three men in the Roma midfield. They had a solid middle three and left the two central United players to play balls out to the wing were they were pretty ineffectual.

Scholes and Carrick were crucial to Utd's football last season. Now they're just being played out of games by a solid centre. You could see it last night, easily. Scholes in particular would recieve the ball, and be closed down before he could even turn to face forward.

Scholes (understandably) must be nervous about getting forward and leaving Carrick as the sole man in the centre if the attack breaks down, and the feeling must be mutual. Scholes needs to start getting forward more (to give the defence another passing option) if United want to play well in the centre.

[JLR]

I liked the look of Nani last night, he puts in some brilliant crosses, always up and down and curling at a good pace. Ronny got boshed in the head, LOL.

It was a lovely finish from Rooney, and we definitely rode our luck, but it was a determined performance, especially from some of the defense and front men. Scholes and Carrick were very lacklustre though.

[Lucky]

Someone mentioned you might have bought the wrong striker, I mean I like Tevez and think he's a very good player but a bit too similar to Rooney, makes similar runs and basically likes to play in the same areas as Rooney.

I wonder what you'd have been like if say you bought Torres for example.

[oli]

I think Rooney could play as an out and out striker and do extremely well at it

[Lucky]

Rooney and Torres could have been superb.

[JLR]

I've wanted us to sign Torres for seasons, still, I'm happy with Tevez so far, just hoping he fully settles into a role soon.

[sith]

We will buy in January methinks.

I cant belive all these clean sheets tho, were becoming like Chlesea 2 seasons ago, having a very solid defence without ever battering teams 3 and 4-0.

I dont care as long as we keep winning.

[Trigg]

Rooney and Tevez will work. All the talk about them being similar is rubbish in my opinion. Good players can play together, all they need is time. Also, don't forget Rooney and Tevez have only played together twice I think so it's certainly premature to write them off.

I would like another striker in January though. Something that adds to the team and gives us a different option. Like Saha does.

Scholes, and Carrick to a lesser degree need to buck up and get involved and actually do something instead of passing the ball sideways which they seem to do alot of last night.

Back four = WIN!

[bowser123]

We will buy in January methinks.

I cant belive all these clean sheets tho, were becoming like Chlesea 2 seasons ago, having a very solid defence without ever battering teams 3 and 4-0.

I dont care as long as we keep winning.

We're fuck all like Chelsea.

They'd go one, possibly two up early and then totally shut up shop and defend, safe in the knowledge that teams were beat before they'd even kicked off. "1-0 down, against Chelsea? Oh shit, we're fucked." We used to have that sort of effect on teams too.

Utd don't defend after scoring early, they're just playing poorly.

That said, people keep on criticizing Scholes and Carrick, it can't be easy picking passes to the strikers who are constantly so deep it's like they want to be midfielders. Best of all is them being called for passing sideways/ backwards, heh, who needs ball retention! I'd much rather whack it upfield to the player that isn't there, I can see giving the ball away being a big quality.

Buying in January? Err, yeah, it's not like Ferguson has said there's no strikers worthy of the name around, I can see Cup tied ones being even more attractive. Well, that and they have no money (it's interesting our early summer spending was balanced by £30M coming back in which has seemingly gone unnoticed).

[Guest]

I think Tevez is improving with each game. I don't see what all the fuss the commentators make about Rooney not being able to play upfront at the striker. One match they were saying they needed someone with presence and an aerial threat up there, and said they needed Saha on. Surely Rooney is plenty powerful enough and has enough presence to make himself known?

Thing is, Rooney's natural game is to run flanks and bomb about all over the place. He's almost an attacking midfielder.

We saw in the World cup that if he's a lone striker it doesn't work. He can certainly play Striker but not the big guy up top.

[Lucky]

Rooney and Tevez will work. All the talk about them being similar is rubbish in my opinion. Good players can play together, all they need is time.

Gerrard and Fat Frank ring any bells???

[Trigg]

We're fuck all like Chelsea.

They'd go one, possibly two up early and then totally shut up shop and defend, safe in the knowledge that teams were beat before they'd even kicked off. "1-0 down, against Chelsea? Oh shit, we're fucked." We used to have that sort of effect on teams too.

Utd don't defend after scoring early, they're just playing poorly.

That said, people keep on criticizing Scholes and Carrick, it can't be easy picking passes to the strikers who are constantly so deep it's like they want to be midfielders. Best of all is them being called for passing sideways/ backwards, heh, who needs ball retention! I'd much rather whack it upfield to the player that isn't there, I can see giving the ball away being a big quality.

Buying in January? Err, yeah, it's not like Ferguson has said there's no strikers worthy of the name around, I can see Cup tied ones being even more attractive. Well, that and they have no money (it's interesting our early summer spending was balanced by £30M coming back in which has seemingly gone unnoticed).

Ball retention is one thing. But we're not probing like we did last season. Wheres the quick sharp passing? The constant probing on either flank and switching of the ball from one side to the other? Where is that? This is what makes watching Utd so good. Yesterday was a perfect example and Sir Alex said in his half time interview that they wasn't taking any risks and playing it a little too safe. We play best when we play quickly and with one and two touch football. We did this once last night and got a goal.

Scholes also seems to be playing far too deep for my liking.

I don't think its a problem for one of the strikers to come deep as long as one stays up top to occupy a defender or two. Its when both come deep thats the problem (this has happened on a few occasions but not too often thankfully). Tevez and Rooney will work if given the chance. Like I said before, only been paired twice this season I believe so its not going to work from the off.

Scholes and Carrick need to pick up form, quickly. There not being shite that I want them dropped, I just want a little bit more from them. One of them supporting the strikers would be nice too. With news that Hargreaves will be out for a further 4 weeks its time for them to step it up a gear as both, by in large have been fairly average (Carrick against Chelsea being the exception).

I'm sure its only a matter of time before it clicks, but my nerves can't hack these 1-NIL scorelines!

[barkbat]

Nanni was appaling last night. He did pass to Rooney for the goal, but it was Rooney's genius that turned into an assist. Otherwise he really is utterly woeful. I lost count of how often he gave the ball away. He keeps attmepting out landish long balls or ridiculously difficult passes and just conceeds posession again and again. He is obviously feeling the pressure and feels he has to make his mark on the team but he needs to play simple and build up from there.

Tevez is a fine player but he is too similar to Rooney. He hangs back, likes space to run into - we need a Saha (who can actually stay fit and not fall over on contact with the opposition) who is on the back four all game, giving us length, giving Scholes and Carrick a reason not to hang back as soon as Rooney and Tevez are out of position. Right now Man U constantly collapse and implode as a formation, with the so-called strikers chasing balls in midfield. Scholes can't slot balls to no one, and no one is doing runs to take some of the heat away from midfield when they do have posession.

Also - do not underestimate the return of Gary Neville. His crossing from the right is much missed, and really freed Ronaldo to cause mischief.

January - out and out striker bought. Nanni in reserves.

[Trigg]

Gerrard and Fat Frank ring any bells???

They do, yes.

[Trigg]

Nanni was appaling last night. He did pass to Rooney for the goal, but it was Rooney's genius that turned into an assist. Otherwise he really is utterly woeful. I lost count of how often he gave the ball away. He keeps attmepting out landish long balls or ridiculously difficult passes and just conceeds posession again and again. He is obviously feeling the pressure and feels he has to make his mark on the team but he needs to play simple and build up from there.

Tevez is a fine player but he is too similar to Rooney. He hangs back, likes space to run into - we need a Saha (who can actually stay fit and not fall over on contact with the opposition) who is on the back four all game, giving us length, giving Scholes and Carrick a reason not to hang back as soon as Rooney and Tevez are out of position. Right now Man U constantly collapse and implode as a formation, with the so-called strikers chasing balls in midfield. Scholes can't slot balls to no one, and no one is doing runs to take some of the heat away from midfield when they do have posession.

Also - do not underestimate the return of Gary Neville. His crossing from the right is much missed, and really freed Ronaldo to cause mischief.

January - out and out striker bought. Nanni in reserves.

LOL!

The second best player on the pitch behind Rio.

I don't doubt he gave the ball away, but alot of players did last night. Least he was willing to take a chance and try to beat people, get at them and see if he could score or create.

How did Rooney 'genius' make it in to a decent assist. He took his goal very well I'll give you that but you have to give credit to Nani for creating the chance in the first place. If I remember rightly the ball came to him and he flicked it on first time while getting closed down from a Roma player into the path of Rooney for him to be able to strike first time.

Your observation of Nani is rubbish.

[JLR]

He is obviously feeling the pressure and feels he has to make his mark on the team but he needs to play simple and build up from there.

Same applied for Ronaldo in his early days at united, he'll mature as a player. His assist was good, dribbling also, and he was putting in the best crosses all night.

[Trigg]

Its funny, as alot of people on a football forum I post on were critical of him in past games for not taking a risk and trying to beat his man. Saying he played it too simple.

It seems he'll never win the war with the fans expectations...

[Gabzy]

Nonsense about Nani.

Jesus. Are you for real? Nani was the only player willing to create chances for us yesterday, he was actually taking chances and trying to get us a goal. Yes he failed many times and gave away possession more than anyone would have liked, but eventually it payed off. And yes, Rooney took it well but it was Nani's quick thinking with the first time flick that created the opportunity. Where was Ronaldo last night? You should be berating the established players from whom you expect these chances and goals, not the new players who are yet to get to grips with the team. Give him a break, he's doing far better than Cristiano did in his first season.

[barkbat]

The second best player on the pitch behind Rio.

Bum jucie.

I don't doubt he gave the ball away, but alot of players did last night. Least he was willing to take a chance and try to beat people, get at them and see if he could score or create.

Nanni's job is to get at the defense, create chances. It's not a brave choice on his part. It is what his position demands. It's like saying at least Van de Sar tried to catch the ball and stop shots finding the goal. Nanni has obvious potential, but he looks incredibly nervous and is making very stupid decisions on the pitch. He caused a couple of counter attacks by Roma, one of which led to one of thier best chances to score, and seemingly cannot bring himself to make basic passes. I have no idea how you can watch that match and decide he was second best on the pitch. It was woeful. He seems compeltely cauterised from the man U's play.

How did Rooney 'genius' make it in to a decent assist. He took his goal very well I'll give you that but you have to give credit to Nani for creating the chance in the first place. If I remember rightly the ball came to him and he flicked it on first time while getting closed down from a Roma player into the path of Rooney for him to be able to strike first time.

Nani flicked the ball into the right zone for Rooney to run into the penalty box. It was Rooney's foresight that made him take it first time and slot it in from a tight angle. It was a fine pass, but was no stunning through ball, and it's annoying, becuase it just glosses over an otherwise poor performance.

Nani may well find his feet and become a crucial player - but right now he is bag-o-shite. Next time he is on, actually make a mental note of how often he causes Man U attacks to disintergrate.

[DC Lemon]

I was impressed with Nani's second-half performance in particular, last night. If others aren't impressed with a winger beating his markers and putting balls in the box in a Champions League match, fair enough.

Slendid bit of showboating by Evra, too, during the match. It's like Heinze never existed.

[Trigg]

Barkbat in 'talks fucking nonsense shocker'.

He was the most creative player on the pitch, by far. If that doesn't make him second best player on the pitch I'd love to know who you think performed better than him.

I'll say what I said about Nani last night in a match thread. He did the instinct things really well and the simple things not too well. I know he gave the ball away. But he's 20 years of age. In a new country for a new team. These are factors you have to consider. I really cant understand you criticism of him. He's got a goal to his name and also got several assists in the handful of games he's played in.

To call him a "bag-o-shite" makes me think you have something against him as your assessment could not be as far from the truth if you tried.

[JLR]

Nanni's job is to get at the defense, create chances. It's not a brave choice on his part. It is what his position demands. It's like saying at least Van de Sar tried to catch the ball and stop shots finding the goal.

I don't think that was his point. That his job, yes, but at least he succeeded, whereas other united players were lacking for the majority.

[barkbat]

I didn't mean bag-o-shite. Got carried away. He is obviously a fine talent, and full of potential.

BUT he gave the ball away FAR too much, and he is a real liability for a team that is not gelling on any level beyond the back four.

He should not be playing ninety minutes when he is that erratic and Giggs is on stand by.

All players take time to settle, especially young ones. It's not like I don't see it. But it really irritates me to see him getting plaudits for such a shoddy performance.

[Trigg]

But you're the only person I've seen come to the conclusion that last nights performance was shoddy. Which is why I'm so shocked by your recent post slating his performance last night.

Oh, and and on form Giggs will start ahead of him but his early season form as been quite honestly the worst of his career. The game at Birmingham was one of his worst in years. Which is why I think Nani got the chance last night.

Also, apart from Rio. Who do you think played better than Nani last night? As you laughed it off when I second his was the second best player on the pitch. Even Rooney was poor with the exception of his well taken goal.