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rllmuk
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Wipeout HD

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Jesus that looks fucking awful. Worse than Fusion did, worse than F-Zero X. Could it get any more generic? If that's any indication as to how it's going to turn out, this is going to be wank.

They should bin this and just give us Wipeout 3 in HD, with every PS1 track ever made, and 10 new ones. It's becoming more and more obvious with every release that they don't understand what made the first games great.

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I hope Altima VII is in this one, I loved that track <_<

This is one of the first PS3 games I'll buy when it gets reduced to 200 quid :wub:

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Huh? I don't think so. I didn't think it was out til next year. And Store updates only happen on Thursdays anyway? So even if it is this week it'll be tomorrow.

Hope I'm wrong though!

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They should bin this and just give us Wipeout 3 in HD, with every PS1 track ever made, and 10 new ones. It's becoming more and more obvious with every release that they don't understand what made the first games great.

Apparently they don't have the a lot of the code for the original Wipeout games up to W3, which is why they went for Pure tracks instead - I read it in an interview somewhere, I'll try to find a link.

Here we go: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3162288 interview with Tony Buckley, Wipeout HD producer.

On why they're only using tracks from the PSP games...

"The PSP track data made the most sense for several of reasons. Plus, the PS2 game's code wouldn't have been very ideal, and as for the PS1 games, unfortunately most of that code is now lost."

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It wouldn't have been difficult to build approximations of all the old tracks. Sounds very lazy. They just wanted to get something out fast by the sounds of things.

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The old code is available at car boot sales everywhere. This looks ace though, it'll bring my PS3 out of retirement big time.

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The old code is available at car boot sales everywhere. This looks ace though, it'll bring my PS3 out of retirement big time.

No it isn't.

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You seriously suggesting that a quick iso extraction / opening of the discs wouldnt help the actual developers of wipeout . Nah, i don't buy that. I'll still buy it though. The Pure tracks are good.

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I sincerely doubt this will arrive in any store today, you lot shouldn't get your hopes up so much! After all, the complete list of EU PSN content for 2007 was released not to long ago on ThreeSpeech with Wipeout HD nowhere to be mentioned.

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What they should do is make this expandable, so you can download more tracks at a later date. Given the prominence of online gaming, it's dissapointing how few gamnes actual do this sort of thing.

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Well the PSP games did so i think we have a fair chance. I'm actually lookin forward to this now. Hope it's fast.

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You seriously suggesting that a quick iso extraction / opening of the discs wouldnt help the actual developers of wipeout . Nah, i don't buy that. I'll still buy it though. The Pure tracks are good.

From my negligible knowledge of coding all thats available on the PS1 CDs is the compiled code not the source code itself. So thats not that much use.

Although if you have the output code and the compiler itself, is it possible to reverse engineer the sourcecode? :) Or is it more of a case of 'you can't unbake a cake'?

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You think it would at least help, im more amazed such a high profile piece of game code could be lost. Its a huge IP, ripe for pillaging. I bet Nintendo still have the SMW code.

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Of course they can be reverse engineered. Probably made easier by the fact that all the assets are in separate files on the CDs (not just one big executable).

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Probably made easier by the fact that all the assets are in separate files on the CDs (not just one big executable).

Perhaps you worked on the titles or something, but what makes you think they've still got the ability to access the general map files, let alone decode them? There's no universal map format, and if they don't have the software to access the files, and the dev documentation describing the format of the file system and the maps themselves isn't available, it's one long boring job to access the data. Remaking them based on playing through the games and building new ones is possible too, but it'd take as much work just about as making a new map from scratch, since it pretty much is.

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You think it would at least help, im more amazed such a high profile piece of game code could be lost. Its a huge IP, ripe for pillaging. I bet Nintendo still have the SMW code.

TBH I don't think that many devcos will keep archives of all their code, especially given the turnover.

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Perhaps you worked on the titles or something, but what makes you think they've still got the ability to access the general map files, let alone decode them? There's no universal map format, and if they don't have the software to access the files, and the dev documentation describing the format of the file system and the maps themselves isn't available, it's one long boring job to access the data. Remaking them based on playing through the games and building new ones is possible too, but it'd take as much work just about as making a new map from scratch, since it pretty much is.

If Johnny Nobody from the internet can reverse engineer most data formats used by games (look at various non sanctioned patches and add-ons that are available for many games), then I imagine the company responsible for making the thing could have a fair old crack at doing so.

Heck with the right development tools, they could load objects into memory and then rip them out. For example, a piece of software exists for Windows that can extract any 3D model from DX games and convert it into a number of well known 3D file formats.

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Indeed. One famous example is a PC based 3D object viewer for all the PS1 Final Fantasy VII models that some enterprising bedroom coder threw together years ago. It's not a programming task I would particularly relish in, but it's more than possible.

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If Johnny Nobody from the internet can reverse engineer most data formats used by games (look at various non sanctioned patches and add-ons that are available for many games), then I imagine the company responsible for making the thing could have a fair old crack at doing so.

I don't think Sony are entirely happy to pay someone, what, about £12 an hour to possibly, maybe work out a program after two months that might somehow get back some maps from an old PS1 game, to please the minority of people who want PS1 WipEout maps thrown in.

Heck with the right development tools, they could load objects into memory and then rip them out. For example, a piece of software exists for Windows that can extract any 3D model from DX games and convert it into a number of well known 3D file formats.

Yes, but given the publically accessible DX SDK it's not really as difficult as trying to reverse-engineer the maps.

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Yes, it's something that would probably require more resources than they would be prepared to expend. The original point that someone raised was that it wasn't possible, when in fact it is entirely possible.

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I guess this didn't come out today then.

It was originally scheduled for December, but they announced a couple of weeks ago that it's now delayed until early 2008.

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to please the minority of people who want PS1 WipEout maps thrown in.

Although I agree with your general opinion, I don't think this would be such a small number.

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Yes, it's something that would probably require more resources than they would be prepared to expend. The original point that someone raised was that it wasn't possible, when in fact it is entirely possible.

Woah thar varmint- it's possible to the extent that anything is unless proven otherwise. Even with phenomenally well-known engines and compile tools reverse engineering a program to access compiled map files doesn't usually result in anything. Attempts to do so with Unreal Engine (Deus Ex modders have had to rebuild the entire maps from scratch to make the one-level DX Co-op, which I believe is now on permanent hold) and Half-Life (again, attempts to decode the Decay maps from PS2 HL which were built using Hammer again have failed and it's a case of rebuilding the game from scratch) certainly don't bode well.

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I'd put money on it being possible. It was possible with the FFVII models (and they didn't use a standard format). Of course, some of the original developers still probably work for Sony so it wouldn't be a hard task to actually consult them on how to go about the process, even if they don't remember everything. The grand result of these observations is that there are two methods by which the same result can be achieved. The developers have done neither, so for that they lose points.

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It was possible with the FFVII models (and they didn't use a standard format).

I'd bet good money they were all compiled from a generic 3D modelling program. Neither will they be large, or contain a morass of clipping and special-area data on top of the texture and geometry data.

Of course, some of the original developers still probably work for Sony so it wouldn't be a hard task to actually consult them on how to go about the process, even if they don't remember everything.

You'd need to find the guy who wrote the original (Saturn version?) map generation and compile toolset twelve years ago and hope he'd remember a piece of code he wrote back then (Hah! I can't remember stuff I wrote two year ago) in enough detail to decode several MB of uncommented hex. Long shot does not cover it.

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