Metroid Prime 2: Echoes

[Raff]

I did this when MP3 was first announced, after having been stuck on the the boost guardian (or whatever it was called).

In the end I think I enjoyed it more than the original once that was out of the way.

[mdn2]

I found this to be far easier than it's predecessor. It wasn't as charming, but it still held my attention to the end.

[Klatrymadon]

Prime's chief deviation was in giving us a charming and even comforting Metroid world, to be fair. I think the reason a lot of people actually disliked MP2 is because they had only previously played Prime and were expecting to explore a very familiar and Earthlike planet.

[Fry Crayola]

I think Aether is still quite Earth-like. It's got a forest area, and two desert-like areas (one with sand, one without).

Of course, it's also got Dark Aether, and Sanctuary's all futuriffic, but I don't think it's that different.

[Klatrymadon]

Yeah, Torvus wasn't too alien, but the Agon Wastes were a lot more successful, what with the ethereal blue trees and everything. Retro at least had the good sense to make the sky look dreary and bleak, too.

For me, the best room in the game is the one right after the landing site, with all those antennae reaching out for you. It started off really strong...

[angel]

Funny, i thought MP2 had a very weak initial few hours. I'm not sure about the metroidy/none-metroidy environment accusations of MP1 either. Zero Mission and Fusion had water levels, outside levels, very none-claustrophobic environments, and they were Nintendo developed. MP2 was too bleak in places, way more than anything in Super.

[SMD]

I never really played MP2, even though I've had it for absolutely ages. I keep thinking I should play it properly but...it just got silly around the boost ball boss and I just couldn't be fucked.

I'll probably go through 1 and 2 before Corruption comes out, though.

[Klatrymadon]

Funny, i thought MP2 had a very weak initial few hours.

In terms of the gameplay, it kinda does, but those first few rooms, with the antennae and the green spider nest thingies, were really exciting to me.

The thing about Zero Mission, to be fair, is that it had no intention of being an artistically 'heavy' Metroid game, and instead went with these nice wee comic-booky interpretations of classic environments. I guess I just feel the series as a whole has been pursuing fewer of the elements that separated it from the pack since 2001. It's not that I think every planet should look like Zebes, though - I'm waiting for planets that makes Zebes look old-hat and dull.

To hijack the thread and go off on another tangent for a moment, I'm also hoping for planets that make as much sense as Zebes does. One of Super Metroid's best qualities is its painstaking approach to structure. All the areas are interconnected in a believable and meaningful fashion, whether by lifts or physical overlap, and as you get further into the game you find yourself coming full circle into areas you've already visited. By the time you've managed to grab all of the items you're taken aback by just how tightly designed (and seemingly natural and untouched) the map is, as a whole.

Each ecological 'theme' also makes sense according to its position on the map, and the movement from one theme into the next is always subtle and integrated. Brinstar becomes a warm orange/red as you plunge deeper into the labyrinth and draw closer to Norfair, the wrecked ship is partially mired in the waters that eventually give way to Maridia, and so on. Viewed bit by bit the game is polished to a ridiculous degree, but when you know the map intimately enough take in how it all comes together, the forethought on the part of the developers becomes dizzying. This is a key shortcoming of the new'uns.

[squirtle]

In terms of the gameplay, it kinda does, but those first few rooms, with the antennae and the green spider nest thingies, were really exciting to me.

The thing about Zero Mission, to be fair, is that it had no intention of being an artistically 'heavy' Metroid game, and instead just went with these nice wee comic-booky interpretations of classic environments. I guess I just feel the series as a whole has been pursuing fewer of the elements that separated it from the pack since 2001. It's not that I think every planet should look like Zebes, though - I'm waiting for stuff that makes Zebes look old-hat and dull.

Aye, because we're just drowning in Metroid style games, aren't we? They're still very well distinguished from "the pack" if you ask me, because there is no pack actually around them. I think the two Prime games are absolute idiosyncracies in the last generation of games. Indeed, the shit 3D Castlevania games really show just how good the Prime games are.

[Klatrymadon]

I don't really mean "Metroid style" games in that sense, though. I place quite a bit of importance on Metroid as an artistic force in the industry - a leader rather than a follower. We're seeing a lot of following lately.

I really hope that opening area of Metroid Prime 3 hasn't set any precedents for the rest of the game, that's fer sure...

[squirtle]

I don't really mean "Metroid style" games in that sense, though. I place quite a bit of importance on Metroid as an artistic force in the industry - a leader rather than a follower. We're seeing a lot of following lately.

I really hope that opening area of Metroid Prime 3 hasn't set any precedents for the rest of the game, that's fer sure...

I'm not sure I agree to be honest. I still feel that from the last generation there is anything that has the style of the two Prime games. The architecture, the bosses, the denizens of each environment. Hell, even the environments themselves feel different to everything else. Prime 1 may just have had Snow, Fire, Forest and Desert environments, but they felt like nothing I'd traversed before. Same with Echoes. They all still managed to feel suitably alien, whilst strangely familiar at the same time, an achievement that I'd imagine wasn't easy to accomplish.

[Klatrymadon]

Oh, I agree, and that's what makes this stuff a little harder to swallow:

We've seen a lot more of this elsewhere, hehe. Hopefully I'm just being too pessimistic, and the neon-blue space station environments make up 5% of the game, but the host of cynically-designed 'Hunters' and NPCs tell me not to hold my breath...

[Jarik]

That elusive "Metroidy" feel is why is like playing Metroid Prime Pinball so much. In the absence of a 2D or "proper" 3D Metroid on the DS, this is next best thing.

Oh, & it's not a bad pinball game either.

[northy]

Just re-energised the first temple, so far, so 8/10. The Dark Suit is going to reduce the annoyance of the Dark World significantly I should think.

For anyone who missed it, the Corruption release date is now August 27th in the US which gives you an extra week to finish Echoes.

[Deeptone]

I've had a good go at it recently, and last night I defeated Quadaxis or whatever his name is and then energised the third temple.

So now I've got all the weapons and visors (I guess) and can go back to exploring and hunting out all those little hidden bits earlier in the game. have to say, as it progress's it becomes much, much better. I think someone else said it just seemed like a hub with different worlds attached compared to Prime, but now I'm finding the locked shortcuts, it feels much more like a world.

Looking forward to a bit more tonight. Still think I've got masses to do.

[McSpeed]

Well, it's about time I give this one another try I guess. I only made it halfway about 2 years ago, so might as well try to finish it this time around. Fortunately, I happen to have a save just when you are about to enter the Dark World for the first time, so I'll pick that up now

[Fry Crayola]

I've had a good go at it recently, and last night I defeated Quadaxis or whatever his name is and then energised the third temple.

Ah, Quadraxis. The first time I fought him, I was all set to wrap up for the night and so got killed horribly by taking far too long working him out.

Second time out when I had him largely sussed, I also got killed owing to time issues. So back I came and destroyed him completely and utterly. It was only when scanning him during the battle that I realised I missed scanning him in his initial form. Being anal, after he was downed I reset the console and came back once again and wiped the floor with him. What initially seemed to me like a bit of an unfair battle (owing the the lack of light areas for energy regeneration) swiftly became understood.

That scanning business though, why can't the scans just be remembered when I resume? I missed out on the full ending of Prime because I didn't scan Thardus when fighting him for the umpteenth time.

Looking forward to a bit more tonight. Still think I've got masses to do.

My save game says 63% at this point. It's not directly linked to either scans or items (as Prime was), it seems, as earlier in the game I couldn't see how they matched up. I suspect I've plenty of game left.

[Sprite Machine]

That scanning business though, why can't the scans just be remembered when I resume?

I would love for there to be a separate scanning log that auto-saves, so even if you die or reset and need to reload your game, everything you scanned the last time is remembered.

Although you'd then have the temptation to 'trial run' bosses, scanning their multiple forms and then dying on purpose to free up more attacking time on the next attempt. That sounds a bit messy.

[Fry Crayola]

Although you'd then have the temptation to 'trial run' bosses, scanning their multiple forms and then dying on purpose to free up more attacking time on the next attempt. That sounds a bit messy.

Meh. What people do on their own time's none of my concern. Anyone posting up trial times will usually include a vid, and said vid would have to have scanning in it if people were to accept it in those weird communities.

[northy]

I missed out on the full ending of Prime because I didn't scan Thardus when fighting him for the umpteenth time.

In Prime 1 you only need to get the items to 100% to see the secret ending. I missed out on scanning a few bosses and all you miss is some concept art.

[angel]

Scanning everything is a joyless way to play MP/2

[northy]

Scanning is infinitely more fun than it should be. It's only really a chore for the first couple of hours then it's much less frequent that you discover anything new that's not required to make progress.

[Raff]

Scanning enemies is boring and pointless. Reading the stuff from computers and things is essential.

[Talvalin]

Having just completed RE4 and with a dearth of decent 360 games to buy (well, other than GRAW for multiplayer fun), I'm looking at all those second-hand Cube games I bought, of which Echoes is one.

Is Echoes going to be bastard hard if I haven't played through the first Prime game?

[Fry Crayola]

Is Echoes going to be bastard hard if I haven't played through the first Prime game?

It'll be bastard hard even if you have.

But it's the good kind of bastard hard, where it's largely very fair. And really, you very, very rarely die when not in a boss battle, and thus far I've yet to face a truly cuntish boss that wasn't at least interesting to fight.

[Alex W.]

Scanning enemies is boring and pointless. Reading the stuff from computers and things is essential.

The bit I dislike about scanning is the way it's used as a new completion percentage, and that it doesn't roll over when you start a new game on the same save. I find myself worrying about making sure I scan every part of a boss during each stage of a battle which kind of distracts from the sense of fighting a huge-oh mechanical octo-spider beast.

[northy]

The bit I dislike about scanning is the way it's used as a new completion percentage, and that it doesn't roll over when you start a new game on the same save. I find myself worrying about making sure I scan every part of a boss during each stage of a battle which kind of distracts from the sense of fighting a huge-oh mechanical octo-spider beast.

But if you were fighting a huge-oh mechanical octo-spider beast in real life then you'd want to scan it first to find its weak point surely? Or maybe that was just a dream I had.

[angel]

Scanning leaves and dirt to get 100% plain out sucks. Finish it on normal, do it on hard. Use Youtube for the 100% scan ending. Have a life outside.

[Alex W.]

But if you were fighting a huge-oh mechanical octo-spider beast in real life then you'd want to scan it first to find its weak point surely? Or maybe that was just a dream I had.

Sure, it's great the first time, but when I keep dying and have to keep scanning, it gets a bit old.

[Fry Crayola]

Scanning leaves and dirt to get 100% plain out sucks. Finish it on normal, do it on hard. Use Youtube for the 100% scan ending. Have a life outside.

Doing anything to get 100% plain out sucks in my view. Aside from the mission objectives, of course, where sensible.

For example - completing all side quests? Good. Collecting 100 hidden packages? Bag of wank.