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Gran Turismo 5 Official Thread


Harry
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You and me both. Why be negative about a game that's not even out yet!? By all means pan it once you've played it. The very same bandwagon jumped on killzone 2 before release and yet had oozed love and devotion to Halo 3 before that came out. Funny that eh?

Halo 3 did have better provenance than Killzone though, man. If KZ hadn't been labelled a 'Halo Killer' (by Sony, or was it the press and is it only attributed mistakenly to Sony now?) and that E3 target render wasn't shown, it might have had an easier ride.

I can see people's point about GT though, in that the series hasn't doesn't appear to have really evolved, that PD don't listen to anybody but themselves - unlike Turn 10 who like Media Molecule do seem to listen to their fans - and they can see the The RE5 Disappointment Train heading down the tracks. But it's nice to read a bit of enthusiasm and not see it shouted down everytime.

The game isn't out, until it is it's all speculation (and a badly translated press release) and that speculation should be tolerated whether it's good or bad.

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Halo 3 did have better provenance than Killzone though, man. If KZ hadn't been labelled a 'Halo Killer' (by Sony, or was it the press and is it only attributed mistakenly to Sony now?) and that E3 target render wasn't shown, it might have had an easier ride.

I can see people's point about GT though, in that the series hasn't doesn't appear to have really evolved, that PD don't listen to anybody but themselves - unlike Turn 10 who like Media Molecule do seem to listen to their fans - and they can see the The RE5 Disappointment Train heading down the tracks. But it's nice to read a bit of enthusiasm and not see it shouted down everytime.

The game isn't out, until it is it's all speculation (and a badly translated press release) and that speculation should be tolerated whether it's good or bad.

Well done man, you found the balance of pre release speculation and worded it well

We're getting to an unfortunate point where there are always bashers who bash for the sake of bashing! And those with genuine concerns and criticisms, who bring these up not to be negative, but because they care about the franchise and their desire to see where it goes. It gets really annoying when someone wades in and bands them altogether, it's like being labelled a plant because you love a game and won't shut up about it. There are different degrees to it, some ok, some not.

Glad you said that, I was just about to launch into Stolly and his usual line :(

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I wasn't trying to stop people wishing for improvements and I certainly would expect some criticism. I do still think though that there's a reasonable number of rllmuk'ers that view anything exclusive on the PS3 with a glass half empty approach but you're right uzi its not fair to clump everyone in the same boat. I'm not particularly a fan of any racing game to be honest so whatever happens with Gran Turismo 5 when it comes out might well wash over my head but, that said, I personally can't recall ever criticising any game at all until I've actually played it and I do quite like to get enthusiastic rather than negative about games before they come out.

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I wasn't trying to stop people wishing for improvements and I certainly would expect some criticism. I do still think though that there's a reasonable number of rllmuk'ers that view anything exclusive on the PS3 with a glass half empty approach but you're right uzi its not fair to clump everyone in the same boat. I'm not particularly a fan of any racing game to be honest so whatever happens with Gran Turismo 5 when it comes out might well wash over my head but, that said, I personally can't recall ever criticising any game at all until I've actually played it and I do quite like to get enthusiastic rather than negative about games before they come out.

Yes thats fair enough, and you're right, there is a group of people who have always had that outdated attitude towards anything thats Sony exclusive. I hope you realise that to anyone who misses them out, I always quote Stolly's list (V Chronicles/ Demon Souls :( ) as great reasons to have a PS3 to counter that.

It's quite novel that you don't criticise games until they release and that you hold a pretty much exclusive positive stance- I in fact commend you for it, but just like a negative poster whos always miserable and expects other folk to be miserable too, there shouldn't be expectations of everyone else quite seeing the bright side.

That being said, I was watching that Arma 2 head tracking video again and thought it could be could really be cool in GT5, was it demonstrated at all at gamescom? It's something that diffrentiates the competition and should be shown rather than just mentioned in a press release

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I wasn't trying to stop people wishing for improvements and I certainly would expect some criticism. I do still think though that there's a reasonable number of rllmuk'ers that view anything exclusive on the PS3 with a glass half empty approach but you're right uzi its not fair to clump everyone in the same boat. I'm not particularly a fan of any racing game to be honest so whatever happens with Gran Turismo 5 when it comes out might well wash over my head but, that said, I personally can't recall ever criticising any game at all until I've actually played it and I do quite like to get enthusiastic rather than negative about games before they come out.

It can get frustrating with the likes of Poly though - i mean, they know how bad the AI is, and they know they can have damage.

Turn 10 sorted out the damage thing AND added rolls. You know, as minor points that they are, in the GT series, the issue with car bouncing plagued the single modes. You take the inside line - at speed - you bump a car and you gain the position and the AI does nothing.

In Forza 2 its a real risk and because of the damage, people don't do it. And it instills a sense of etiquette.

Not only that but racing MP with that attutide ensures that your get some real flack from other people.

But because its not an issue - you don't tend to care. And whilst 1000 cars is amazing, it becomes somewhat void if that base gameplay isn't there.

I'm sure it'll be great, don't get me wrong but its lost that "grab you the balls" thing it once had and the current videos don't do it justice.

Yet T10's first video was (apparently) an edit of users trying driving stunts. Its not racing, sure, but its highlighting the potential fun you can have with the video editor. You know - heres the game and you can race but if you want to mess around, well your gonna have some fun doing it.

GT5 just appears to be massive technical. I'm sure once we see some proper race videos that will change but i can imagine the likes of Nascar being quite dull if you can just bounce people with lil' ill effect.

Yet I can't wait to see what T10's physics engine will do when a car slides out on the straight of the Nissan ring and some last place racer (probably me!) makes some poor attempt to avoid it only to crash and roll with debris strewn everywhere.

And then the other 6 cars are all bearing down at 200mph plus. I kinda hope it'll end up like the 1955 Le Mans crash (although i've not seen how F3's physics work at high speed).

You just feel that it has that exciting potential and thats great because its an important essence of racing and as i said earlier, you can't say GT5 is a driving sim anymore because its not. It has at least 16 cars on screen (which is really good i might add) and Nascar events.

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It can get frustrating with the likes of Poly though - i mean, they know how bad the AI is, and they know they can have damage.

Turn 10 sorted out the damage thing AND added rolls. You know, as minor points that they are, in the GT series, the issue with car bouncing plagued the single modes. You take the inside line - at speed - you bump a car and you gain the position and the AI does nothing.

A lot of your criticisms here come down to the lack of damage. This stuff is hard to talk about unless you assume the worst, and I can't really blame you for that since they never come out and clear things up. What if it turned out they had full damage on these 170 cars (which would presumably include NASCAR and WRC vehicles) and the rest has these loose panels with degraded performance? Remember they showed a rally car getting wrecked nicely [i just watched it again, not mega impressive but there is actual deformation there rather than just loose panels] in the last proper trailer shown at E3, maybe that's what they're working towards. I know that's optimistic, but someone has to be in this thread!

A lot of people criticise GT's drone-like AI, but I can't say I've noticed much better from Forza 2. They are a little better at avoiding you, which is good because any major contact will probably put an end to your race. Forza 2 gets around the whole issue with online play replacing all those rubbish drones with unpredictable humans. It sounds like GT5 has a more comprehensive online mode compared to Prologue's limp offering, so that might mitigate some AI complaints.

I've played Forza 2 and GT5:P this evening and had a lot of fun with both for very different reasons. Forza's single player never really grabbed me (so much so that I sold off my copy so I'd never be tempted to try career mode again, which worked great until I picked up another copy), but the multiplayer modes are fantastic. The game does a great job of giving you the feeling of racing against a grid of competitors. I love the kind of tortoise and hare situations the damage gets you in to.

GT5:P on the other hand had always been more enjoyable in single player, which is good considering how slight it's multiplayer mode is. If Forza recreates the feeling of racing, GT recreates being in a car on a road much better for me. The focus seems so different that in single races I don't get stressed if it takes a few goes to win, but in Forza anything less than 1st place is annoying to me in single player. People talk about being able to feel bumps in the road in Forza but I never notice any of that - probably to busy focussing on what the guy behind me is doing! The interaction with the road in Forza seems almost binary - either you have grip or you don't. And if you don't, better get some quick! There are quite a few places in GT where small bumps in the road are acutely noticeable both though force feedback on the pad and the car juddering on screen. Even things like the way cars snap into spins when you lose control just feels more tangible to me when it happens in GT, there's somehow more impact to it even without damage. On an entirely personal level I just like the way cars feel in GT more than any other game, and the game's whole interface and presentation is just a cut above.

I've ended up singling out a few of Forza's weaknesses in my eyes, but this is the Gran Turismo thread so I'm not going to worry too much. I enjoy both games for very different reasons, too bad not everyone else can!

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A lot of your criticisms here come down to the lack of damage. This stuff is hard to talk about unless you assume the worst, and I can't really blame you for that since they never come out and clear things up. What if it turned out they had full damage on these 170 cars (which would presumably include NASCAR and WRC vehicles) and the rest has these loose panels with degraded performance? Remember they showed a rally car getting wrecked nicely [i just watched it again, not mega impressive but there is actual deformation there rather than just loose panels] in the last proper trailer shown at E3, maybe that's what they're working towards. I know that's optimistic, but someone has to be in this thread!

A lot of people criticise GT's drone-like AI, but I can't say I've noticed much better from Forza 2. They are a little better at avoiding you, which is good because any major contact will probably put an end to your race. Forza 2 gets around the whole issue with online play replacing all those rubbish drones with unpredictable humans. It sounds like GT5 has a more comprehensive online mode compared to Prologue's limp offering, so that might mitigate some AI complaints.

I've played Forza 2 and GT5:P this evening and had a lot of fun with both for very different reasons. Forza's single player never really grabbed me (so much so that I sold off my copy so I'd never be tempted to try career mode again, which worked great until I picked up another copy), but the multiplayer modes are fantastic. The game does a great job of giving you the feeling of racing against a grid of competitors. I love the kind of tortoise and hare situations the damage gets you in to.

GT5:P on the other hand had always been more enjoyable in single player, which is good considering how slight it's multiplayer mode is. If Forza recreates the feeling of racing, GT recreates being in a car on a road much better for me. The focus seems so different that in single races I don't get stressed if it takes a few goes to win, but in Forza anything less than 1st place is annoying to me in single player. People talk about being able to feel bumps in the road in Forza but I never notice any of that - probably to busy focussing on what the guy behind me is doing! The interaction with the road in Forza seems almost binary - either you have grip or you don't. And if you don't, better get some quick! There are quite a few places in GT where small bumps in the road are acutely noticeable both though force feedback on the pad and the car juddering on screen. Even things like the way cars snap into spins when you lose control just feels more tangible to me when it happens in GT, there's somehow more impact to it even without damage. On an entirely personal level I just like the way cars feel in GT more than any other game, and the game's whole interface and presentation is just a cut above.

I've ended up singling out a few of Forza's weaknesses in my eyes, but this is the Gran Turismo thread so I'm not going to worry too much. I enjoy both games for very different reasons, too bad not everyone else can!

Well, firstly remember that i don't own a Ps3, but my decision to buy one probably rests more on this then anything else so i've got more at risk then existing owners who dont have to commit as much cash to buy a machine.

I think, with a full complement of cars, MP GT5 will be really good - providing people get penalised properly and it doesn't premote poor driving.

I think I prefered Forza's SP only because i'd played 5 incarnations of GT before Forza 2 so was slilghtly bored of the same old tracks - better graphics, but a similar game. But after 5 games - you'd have thought they'd sorted out the crash and rolls and left over race debris.

To me, that and the AI is all it needs - it needs to recreate the essense of actual racing so there are other things it could do but these, i think, are most important. I'd never played any of the GT series online up to this point so really can't comment here, although i'd imagine its fairly good with some decent racers but by GT4 i did find the SP a lil' dull after time.

Another factor i'm feeling.... some big game gets announced with lots of planned features and several little games will come along and poach one small but important element of that big game before it arrives and thats exactly whats happening.

In the time between GT5 we've had Forza2, Flatout, Dirt, Grid, Race Pro, Burnout, etc. Each on their own against a GT game would usually lose easily but theres been no GT game in the meantime so by the time its come out it has no more features of real value. When you take the game winning elements of all those games, GT5's doesn't quite cut it - however many cars it has and thats how i feel about it right now having seen what media has been posted.

Even the Nascar element - a whole series in itself -

its most important and most exciting traits were already well done in Papyrus's Nascar 4 and that'll be nearly 9 years old at GT's release.

At the moment is comes across a jack of all trades and master of some. Just not the ones i think are important enough to wanrrant me buying a new machine. I could be wrong though - if i hear another talk that its truely a great game i'll commit but theres lots of issues at stake here, IMO.

:(

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I think GT5:P showed some hints at doing things a little differently. I liked the challenges in between the pure races, for the same reason I've always like the Licences. They're made to really challenge your driving skill. Coming first in racing games is often relatively easy and only the players restraint from overpowering the race prevents easy wins. The "pass all cars in a lap", lap time and licence challenges are great for setting a challenge you can't force your way through. You have to know how to beat them.

And Nascar is making me a bit overexcited. I hate the sport and for the most part I hate oval racing, But in GT5:P the challenges on the ovals were superb, showing skill is required for optimal slipstreaming.

GT has always had a very dear place in my heart. I bought a PS and PS2 for the series and never regretted it. I own a PS3 for GT5:P predominantly (LBP didn't make things harder) and look forward to GT5 for the car porn it is sure to be. It's presentation is unrivalled. I've always loved the World Map concept. I loved Forza 2 but it's always felt horribly sterile. The menus are cumbersome and the SP structure is boring to say the least.

On a side note of the damage, if it's only on some cars I think I'll be switching it off (if possible) in races where the cars in a race are a mixed or damagable and not. It's one thing to have damage for realism but to have it not happening on some will ruin any addition it gives.

I'm think both GT5 and FM3 will be amazing at what they do. And can't wait to have to chose which one to play on a particular day.

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*edit*

WOAH...that doesn't make sense. Theres 16 or so tracks in NASCAR alone - hows that work?

Or is Nascar a download?

....plus theres the rally tracks - unless that was just to show certain rally cars in their proper environments - but i don't believe that.

You're assuming there's a full Nascar season mode rather than a few of the cars and say, Daytona.

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Hopefully the TGS will reveal more than just the release date. There are still a lot of un-answered questions with regards to this release, and most of it stems from the things they put in Prologue

In order of annoyance...

(1) Grinding - to constantly re-do the same races to the point of beyond tedium to purchase just one car. I know its always been there, but really this needs to be re-addressed. I know its more prominent in Prologue due to its size, but there will still be a massive element of it in the full game. 2 million credits for one car? They always said that the game is more about cars and collecting cars, so Polyphony, lets not make things too silly in the full game please.

(2) Online - has anything been revealed on it? Prologue was a beta for it, and from what we have all played it was behind everyone else in the online racing genre. Can this be done right? Lag was a major factor in Prologue, even after patching. Of course this doesn't stop it been chock-full of tossers who cannot drive or brake. I am going to make a prediction that online in 5 will not be really playable for a good 3+ months after initial release.

(3) Cockpit view - Even after constant update after update, the game still could not remember the last view I selected when booting the game up again. They need to fit this

(4) Update mechanism - Polyphony, just use the normal Sony update procedure please, your one just does-not-fucking-work-properly. Quit!

(5) Polyphony Reverse Engineering - just how much of the game has been backed out to be re-sold as DLC? Remember previous GT announcements about GT-HD? I think this could destroy the game. I am fairly OK with car DLC, but not tracks, thats really not on!

Other than that, I think it will be all-good. Although if this DOESN'T make a 2009 release date, they are just going to drag this out even longer into 2010. Now really is the time to get the game out...

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(1) Grinding - to constantly re-do the same races to the point of beyond tedium to purchase just one car. I know its always been there, but really this needs to be re-addressed. I know its more prominent in Prologue due to its size, but there will still be a massive element of it in the full game. 2 million credits for one car? They always said that the game is more about cars and collecting cars, so Polyphony, lets not make things too silly in the full game please.

I definitely agree with this. In Forza 2, apart from a little bit at the start there really isn't much grinding to do once you get going. Prize cars have got me by and if they need upgrading the winnings usually cover suspension and weight reduction quite easily. I think the worst bit so far was for a race that needed an American car over a certain weight. There were some pretty fast cars in that race and the Acura I bought wasn't powerful enough so I had to grind to afford the upgrades. It wasn't nearly as annoying to do as it was in GT though.

GT's biggest problem for me though is its increasing sterility. I loved the Forza 3 trailer at E3, with all the cars doing tricks and spinning around. It gives the brand personality even if you probably won't be able to do crazy stuff like that in the game.

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(1) Grinding - to constantly re-do the same races to the point of beyond tedium to purchase just one car. I know its always been there, but really this needs to be re-addressed. I know its more prominent in Prologue due to its size, but there will still be a massive element of it in the full game. 2 million credits for one car? They always said that the game is more about cars and collecting cars, so Polyphony, lets not make things too silly in the full game please.

(5) Polyphony Reverse Engineering - just how much of the game has been backed out to be re-sold as DLC? Remember previous GT announcements about GT-HD? I think this could destroy the game. I am fairly OK with car DLC, but not tracks, thats really not on!

(1) You shouldn't have to grind to get through the single player but I don't mind that you have to grind for some cars. Although that leaves me in two minds as well. Given that you pay £40 for the game why can't you use every car on every track from the start? I suppose that's what arcade mode is for then career earns them for use in single/multi -player. I did get the Ferrari F1 car in GT5:P (twice - lost a save) and it was worth it both times. A magical experience.

(5) I think track DLC is fine so long as:

- It's not held from the original release but rather just post release development

- Events are added with a track. I don't play online a lot but want to experience new tracks. This means I want new single player events on it.

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  • 4 weeks later...
but the lighting in the GT vid is miles better.

It does look that way. I still can't judge the game until I see actual in game gameplay footage though, cockpit view if possible. Is there any around? Isn't the game a couple of months away?

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I think GT5 does definitely look better than F3 from the videos I have seen. I don't think the car models are any more advanced, but GT seems to really hit the visuals with reflections, HDR and track detail that F3 lacks. I have a 360 and have F3 on pre-order, but if i'm honest GT5 definitely wins on the graphics front. It's even made me tempted to buy a PS3 for it, but at this stage with no clear release date i'll hold out and see what happens. F3 still holds some weight with me as from past experience with both games (older versions), car handling between models usually goes to Forza as GT has in the past tended to copy and paste to some extent. Saying that, I don't think owners of either console can complain :D

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It does look that way. I still can't judge the game until I see actual in game gameplay footage though, cockpit view if possible. Is there any around? Isn't the game a couple of months away?

Expect a big blowout at TGS this week. It's probably the biggest game on show there.

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I don't really care about both, but the lighting in the GT vid is miles better.

It's obviously rendered vigorously though. I can recognize the tracks from actual in-game versions, but there's been A LOT of video editing there. In the end, in terms of gameplay, I reckon Forza 3 will look better than GT5.

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Well, like I said, I really don't care about both. As you know, I like my videogames less po-faced and realistic. :D

I was just talking about graphics and to me one looks obviously better than the other. But then again, graphic whores keep telling me that Polyphony's lighting models and shaders are amongst the best in the industry.

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GT5 looks really, really good there. But I wonder how much is CGI and how much is after effect filters in replay mode. Just like FM3's snapshots, which also have a lot of filters applied. True in-game footage is needed for an accurate comparison. Graphics are one thing though, but what really matters is the overall 'feel' (sound + handling + AI). I think, based on recent gameplay footage of both titles, that FM3 will have the edge over GT5.

Tell you what. If GT5 proves us wrong, I'm instantly going to buy a PS3 and GT5. I'm nearly out of bollocks to cut off by now so that'll have to do instead.

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Theres no 60fps movies either. I must admit if its really that good it could swing it for me too but you can't leave us now Meerman.

F3 looks to have so many new people coming on board.

I said IF GT5 proves us wrong. I don't defect that easily. :facepalm:

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GT5 will have to do some things (physics) redically different from before to convince you, Meers. But it sure doesn't look like it. I'll get the game for sure and probably play it quite a lot, but I highly doubt I will play it as much and with the same amount of fun as Forza 3.

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