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Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen


Goose
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Sure, and plenty of movies have political or ideological subtexts (Superman and Batman are both fairly right wing characters. Having said that, Star Trek is basically the communist manifesto), but they never use real presidents as characters, even if they're not seen on screen.

The political themes in Transformers aren't even subtext...they're just...text. You have to really want to not see it.

Not really, to the standard viewer it's just the usual action fare/formula. The political themes aren't so political, they're just another force in the conflict between the blah blah good and evil, obstacles. I just saw his name drop as wanting to make the universe in the movie a bit more real, like with the blatant advertising in irobot when they use that futuristic audi- the name tag helps you believe audi might make a car like that in future, or the self tying nikes in Back to the Future. Bridges the gap, I just saw it as that rather than "Oh we so ACTUALLY named the president, hence we're trying to tell you something about him".

I can honestly say you're in the minority to even have picked up on it that way

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I can honestly say you're in the minority to even have picked up on it that way

You're probably right, and that upsets me a little.

I just saw his name drop as wanting to make the universe in the movie a bit more real, like with the blatant advertising in irobot when they use that futuristic audi- the name tag helps you believe audi might make a car like that in future, or the self tying nikes in Back to the Future. Bridges the gap,

Not really like that with people though, is it?

The other reason movies usually invent presidents is so that they're "timeless", so that they don't seem unnecessarily dated in the future. Bay even goes as far as to put the date as "Today" in the intro.

I find it hard to believe he'd deliberately date his movie to within a 4/8 year period unless he had a point to make.

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You're probably right, and that upsets me a little.

Really? Ignorance is bliss to me in the case of a movie like this, you go in and be entertained for three hours, it's Michael Bay!

The kids probably forgot Obama was even mentioned because of the funny and big robots, the teens would have forgot because of well...Megan Fox, the adults too busy enjoying/nitpicking how it relates to the transformers they grew up with. And to those who did it was probably inconsequential, not because of any political or idealogy implications, but because it was glossed over by 2 hours and 30 mins of special effects and noise.

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Bay even goes as far as to put the date as "Today" in the intro.

I find it hard to believe he'd deliberately date his movie to within a 4/8 year period unless he had a point to make.

I just took today as present day- which makes sense in a movie which has alien characters/concepts to real life so you can place a time with certainty, in fact I forgot it was there at all until you reminded me. I doubt it was a deliberate point to imply anything deeper. The point was to set the scene.

Look, you have a very deep and from what I've seen, educated interest in American politics. Your average movie viewer just doesn't fit your shoes, you're seeing things no one else did.

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Really? Ignorance is bliss to me in the case of a movie like this, you go in and be entertained for three hours, it's Michael Bay!

And if he'd managed to entertain me for even one hour, I'd probably have had more sympathy.

The kids probably forgot Obama was even mentioned because of the funny and big robots, the teens would have forgot because of well...Megan Fox, the adults too busy enjoying/nitpicking how it relates to the transformers they grew up with. And to those who did it was probably inconsequential, not because of any political or idealogy implications, but because it was glossed over by 2 hours and 30 mins of special effects and noise.

Consciously, perhaps. And that's the problem.

At some point, those kids, teenagers and adults are going to be asked their opinion on whether America was right or wrong to roam the world searching for the Taliban/Al Quaeda, and some of them are gong to think "That's a bit like what the Autobots were doing to the Decepticons. If it's OK for Optimus Prime, you bet your ass it's OK with me!"

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I just took today as present day- which makes sense in a movie which has alien characters/concepts to real life so you can place a time with certainty, in fact I forgot it was there at all until you reminded me. I doubt it was a deliberate point to imply anything deeper. The point was to set the scene.

Look, you have a very deep and from what I've seen, educated interest in American politics. Your average movie viewer just doesn't fit your shoes, you're seeing things no one else did.

I agree with Ben-K on this, and it disturbed me too (strong term but it best sums up my reaction). The torture scene was more wrong than Hostel because of its context, and it blatantly placed you on the side of the torturer. The references from the army about 'some godforsaken desert' etc were all ways of positioning it as a contemporary setting, and this - particularly combined with the naming of Obama - means that switching off and letting it get away with sneaking right wing neo con jingoism into young viewer's brains is irresponsible, and falling into the ideological pitfall that such blatant nastiness relies on.

Plus the twins were a pair of rent-a-stereotype annoying cunts but that is a whole other issue.

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Like Terminator: Salvation, this was an absolute heap of utter fucking shit.

Unlike Terminator, however, this was rather enjoyable utter fucking shit.

It was overlong, and it was still a bit of a mess, but it was all a bit of a laugh, really.

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See? This is what people remember about it.

It's hardly something you'd forget :(

Like Terminator: Salvation, this was an absolute heap of utter fucking shit.

Unlike Terminator, however, this was rather enjoyable utter fucking shit.

It was overlong, and it was still a bit of a mess, but it was all a bit of a laugh, really.

So, what's it got to do with Terminator again?

How can it be a heap of utter fucking shit and at the same time be enjoyable? Doesn't make any sense man!

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Oh Transformers, let me run through the emotions:

1. Trailers. OMFG this is the best film ever.

2. All those one star reviews. Oh noes, it's actually rubbish.

3. Watching the thing. Somewhere between the two. Amaze FX porn. Terrible story. Gleeful Michael Bay in true Bad Boys 2 offensive mode.

Rather enjoyed it.

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I might, I might not - depends on the context. And I thought it worked well for the original user of the term here. I'm seeing this tomorrow and I suspect that my position will end up thus - this will be a (heap of shit?) guilty pleasure, because it will not really be a good film, but it will have the action to carry it. The first film isn't even that, because it's just not a very good film, and the action is minimal. Both have moments though - mostly dialogue from Optimus - that make them worthwhile checking out from time to time.

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It is - as Stu suggests - a 'guilty' pleasure. The whole cinema seemed to enjoy it, but it was utterly ridiculous in every possible way, with

the Fallen being rubbish as fuck; total lack of any cool aerial combat; fluffed-up running time; the jokes being utterly RIDICULOUS. Devastator has BALLS, for fucksakes!

But that's what's also cool about it - that it knows how ludicrous it is, and how simply impossible it probably is to make a genuinely great piece of cinema from the whole franchise. It's rubbish, but it's really quite funny.

Also, as others have mentioned, Prime kicks some massive bum in it.

And Starscream's still rubbish :(

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It is - as Stu suggests - a 'guilty' pleasure. The whole cinema seemed to enjoy it, but it was utterly ridiculous in every possible way, with

the Fallen being rubbish as fuck; total lack of any cool aerial combat; fluffed-up running time; the jokes being utterly RIDICULOUS. Devastator has BALLS, for fucksakes!

But that's what's also cool about it - that it knows how ludicrous it is, and how simply impossible it probably is to make a genuinely great piece of cinema from the whole franchise. It's rubbish, but it's really quite funny.

Also, as others have mentioned, Prime kicks some massive bum in it.

And Starscream's still rubbish :(

I thought all the humour sunk in well, even though the

Fighter Jet was written as a goody (it was a DECEPTICON!), it's character held it's own. I'd agree on the aerial combat, Starscream didn't take down enough pilots but, atleast he got more screentime than the first. The running time took the piss but I can't say there were too many scenes which bored me or over dragged. Devastator was awesome, it must have taken him 2 minutes to transform and when he did I just sat there with my mouth open.

:(

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Saw this tonight, everything's been pretty much said in this thread already.

The good -

Optimus forest fight. Optimus revival. Bumblebee. Devastator. Shia's screams at terminator girl. Bullet-time robots doing backflip shooting. Action, action, action.

The bad -

Terminator girl, seriously wtf? How the hell did the writers and producers sit together in a room and decide she'd be a great addition to the story? Fuck sake, all this money to come up with that? The entire university scene was pointless. The Fallen didn't actually need to be in this film, Megatron could have been the leader figure and done what The Fallen was trying to do. Megatron was akin to Morpheus in Matrix Revolutions, outcasted as a leader. Having Megatron be what the Fallen tried to be would have made his underwater revival way more gripping.

Megan Fox is hot and all, but come on... they really overdid her scenes, it was rather cringeworthy to watch. Still not sure what Sam's room-mate was supposed to be doing in this film either.

Basically the first half of the movie was drivel, the second is enjoyable nonsense. It's very easy to hate this film, but take it for what it is, robots kicking the shit out of each other.

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Saw it last night, loved the Megan Fox slow-mo running shots.

They never introduce the Transformers enough, it would be nice to see more of them on screen to flesh out the characters of them robots a bit. I couldn't name any of the Transformers in the film really because they just appeared, pulled an arm off something and never came back

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It really needed about half of the robots that it featured, Scorpinok included. Having a whole bunch of random machines in the opening ruck in Shanghai, sure, but most of them seemed to pop up, say "HELLO!" or "I'M BACK FROM THE LAST ONE" and then die.

At some point, those kids, teenagers and adults are going to be asked their opinion on whether America was right or wrong to roam the world searching for the Taliban/Al Quaeda, and some of them are gong to think "That's a bit like what the Autobots were doing to the Decepticons. If it's OK for Optimus Prime, you bet your ass it's OK with me!"

I still think you're overthinking this, but I get what you're aiming for now. I'm not sure what you're saying was deliberate, though, any more than The Matrix trilogy's supposed anti-Palestinian, pro-Israel overtones.

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As long as as a film has

A ) something unutterably cool in it and/or

B ) entertains the fuck out of me I'll forgive an awful AWFUL lot. Seriously, I pay my £8 to be entertained, and if that's just 2 hours of CGI spunk as long as I come out and go "that was cool" it's £8 well spent. It's when something tries too hard to be something it could never be that bothers me. For example (and one I keep banging on about I know) I have a deep disappointment with the Wolverine movie, not because I'm precious about Wolverine but because it could have been so much more, it was such a missed opportunity. The first Transformers film was never going to get universal acclaim, it's the very essence of a Marmite film, but fucking hell I love the big, messy, slapdash, plot holed fuckwittery that's abound in it :)

Wouldn't it be good if they clearly hadn't thought 'Who gives a shit if it's any good, 13 year old boys will just be happy to see big robots hitting each other and a few shots of tit and arse'?

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Tonight is Transformers 2 night for me, and I am looking forward to it. I loved the first film (apart from the daft bit when the Autobots are trying to hide in Sam's garden when he's looking for those spectacles), so I expect this to be "more of the same" (which would be a good thing).

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Tonight is Transformers 2 night for me, and I am looking forward to it. I loved the first film (apart from the daft bit when the Autobots are trying to hide in Sam's garden when he's looking for those spectacles), so I expect this to be "more of the same" (which would be a good thing).

It's definitely not more of the same, it's far, far worse than the first.

The story is complete balls and the action isn't up to the standard of the first, bar the first and last 15 minutes.

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Yeah i was pretty disappointed, even going in with low expectations. With the last film the Transformers goodness just about outweighed the Michael Bay shitness, with this one the sheer crushing badness of his direction is just too much.

Plus - what a waste just having Soundwave

sitting in space for the whole film, and not even have the iconic vocoder voice? Let down! I kept waiting for some appearance by him at the battle at the end, even just to drag Megatron away.

At least Ravage looked good though, really nice animation, and moving slowly enough that you can actually appreciate it.

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Saw it last night, loved the Megan Fox slow-mo running shots.

They never introduce the Transformers enough, it would be nice to see more of them on screen to flesh out the characters of them robots a bit. I couldn't name any of the Transformers in the film really because they just appeared, pulled an arm off something and never came back

Oli has this spot on!

The Robots play second fiddle to the Humans.

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