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Games Workshop, An Appreciation Thread


Lorfarius
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Joek will hopefully back me up on this but dvanced Tau tactica is a rather good GW forum. Granted it's somewhat slanted towards Tau but the level of respect between posters and the accepting attitude to differing views makes it a quality place to visit. It's also rather good for learning about painting and game stratagies.

Yeah, ATT is a great place, but very very different from everywhere else - no messing around please! Having said that, whilst it's a Tau site first and foremost, it's still a fantastic place to get some great feedback and support. There are some exceedingly talented folk who post there.

And then I do... :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thought i'd bump this seeing as it's dropped off the first few pages.

Earlier in the thread I mentioned i'd started work on my GT army so I thought i'd post some pics.

4323446757_bc73ee8b87.jpg

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And here is a bit of a test model for what was going to be a dragon ogre. Since I started building this though i've changed my mind on a few things. While cold one legs will be used for almost all the models, the trolls will have plastic ogre torsos and the dragon ogres will have the new minotaur torsos and rebuilt front legs to make them a bit beefier. The trolls will also have saurus heads where as the dragon ogres will have cold one heads.

4321526854_562fa95225.jpg

I have done some greenstuffing on him since the pic was taken but he's probably going to get left now and i'll start work on a proper troll next week.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yay! Got the first test casting in the post today. I was speaking to him last Sunday and he was mentioning that he's actually going to redo the mould, as there's a bit of a flaw in there which results in a bigger mould line than he wanted. I probably wouldn't have known any different had he not mentioned it, so really pleased with the Q/C standards! However, I can't tell you how good it feels to actually have a near-production figure in my hands. It seems that the finishing post to this one is nearing!

Anyway, here's a snap. Ignore the sword a bit though - as resin does, it was a little bit bent. In my eagerness, I put it in a little warm water and then started to straighten it. I really shouldn't have clamped it though :lol: - probably a bit too strong for the material! Still, nothing that a bit of paint and a little putty won't sort out!

Anyway, hope you like it:

ElfLordtestcast.jpg

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Looks ace man, can't wait to get my version in the post.

Me too. I really like the dynamic pose.

In anticipation of the new lotr releases I've started painting helmingas. So far I've done my test miniature as I'm using a different colour scheme to differentiate them from Theoden's men.

post-1047-1265836388.jpg

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Well.

I haven't ever played a proper game of Warhammer (I've dabbled with Space Hulk and Blood Bowl, and going further back Hero Quest and the like, but never core Warhammer/40k. Oh, and I've played a huge number of the computer games - the Space Hulks, Space Crusade, Shadow of the Horned Rat and its [brilliant] sequel, Rites of War [pretty good, actually], Final Liberation [likewise, and a very good rendition of Epic 40k, by all accounts], Dawn of War [didn't like it], Dawn of War 2 [great fun, but, like DoW, nothing like actual Warhammer]).

This despite having bought a 40k starter kit way back when (had, if memory serves... two five-man squads and a land speeder, along with a couple of dark eldar squads and one of their hover tank things. Probably had the word prism in its name). Prior to that I bought a whirlwind and devastator squad. Oh, and a... squad of attack bikes? Three of 'em, I think. Possibly. Ah, memory.

Anyway, back in those dark days of my early teens, I enjoyed putting all my troops together (and taking a small drill and craft knife to many of them to simulate battle damage), but everything sort of came apart at the seams when it came to painting. I believe I painted the devastators and whirlwind (badly), and got as far as giving another squad an undercoat before realising that no, I really had no ability when it came to this painting malarky. Combine this with having no friends interested in the game, plus the devastating prices for a teenager whose only income was the money saved up by, er, not buying lunch with his lunch money, and I lost interest. Twice, actually, as I'm fairly sure there was a gap of at least a year between the devastator/whirlwind combo and the starter pack.

But now! Now I've been getting urges... urges to glue - and maybe even to paint! (Though I'm sure I'm still awful, as I've done nothing to hone that skill in the intermitting decade+. And after seeing incredible work like JoeK's above, I'm even more aware of how awful my own ability is! But hey, you need rubbish painters like me to make everyone else look good, right? :)) And, once that's done, I'd quite like to try playing, perhaps. I do love wargames, after all.

But where to start?

My adolescent self liked Space Marines. Worse, Ultramarines. My adolescent self was rather dull, you may note.

No, my adult self wants something a bit more flavoursome. I gave serious consideration to the Space Orks - fun flavour, and fun gameplay by all accounts. But I just didn't fancy them enough in the end. Too much green :)

Necrons and Tau are alien to me, and frighten me, so they were out.

Genestealers I came obscenely close to choosing. How I longed to play with the wonderful, traditional pink and blue colourscheme. But no, my love for war machines and technology ruled them out.

So I came to the Imperial Guard. Ah, imps. After condemning the Space Marines as dull, perhaps this seems contradictory, but the imps have that much more character - none of these faceless, fearless space marines here. No, what we want is cowardly cannon-fodder, led by fantastically-suited commissars with a penchant for killing their own men.

And, for a bit of extra flavour, I could always play with allied forces - specifically, with a Daemonhunter contingent. Memories of a GW novel from my youth may have tainted this decision - I forget the name, or the author, or even the story, but I'm certain it featured an inquisitor who ordered the extermination of an entire planet in order to stop the spread of Chaos, or something similar (there was also an assassin who could shapeshift into a genestealer, I think?). Whatever the case - these are the sorts of lunatics I want leading my armies!

But I've learned my lesson.

Buying in bulk will just lead to overwhelming myself into giving up.

(also, a nasty chunk out of my bank balance)

So, instead, I've decided to buy an army in drips and drabs, see how I go.

To start with, I've ordered a commissar, and a couple of death cult assassins.

Problem is, I'm not really sure where to go from there, assuming I don't just give up in tears after ruining my models with a godawful paint job. For one, I don't have the rulebook/codex, and am unlikely to get my hands on them until May at the earliest (I'd rather own the English copies, rather than the French ones I'd find at the moment). Am I right in thinking that every army needs one HQ unit and two troop units? And how does the ally system work - I assume there are limits put on the 'secondary' army's makeup? Do the secondary army's units count towards the required squads? Considering that my main aims with the joint army are to have:

A few commissars doing the rounds.

An inquisitor plus retinue.

An assassin/assassin squad.

Core troops of imperial guard, with fast transport (the Valkyrie does look tastiest here)

A dreadnought (I know, a Space Marine thing, but I do love the look of them. And hey, it's a Daemonhunter dreadnought, so It's Okay, yeah? :D)

Is this feasible in a legal army? And, er, would it be a playable army? Or would it be completely outclassed? I'm guessing the lack of any viable anti-tank units, and use of only one heavy weapon (which I think I'm right in thinking specialises in close combat, unlike most heavy weapons?) might be a problem.

Oh, and finally, have I accidentally picked an army which would be even more difficult to paint than most? Might as well know in advance, so I don't have too unpleasant a surprise :lol:

Sorry for all the questions, it's just I'm a complete novice and could really do with advice (and can't ask at a GW shop... because there isn't one. And if there was, it'd be awkward to explain what I wanted and understand them due to my grasp of French not being perfect, and certainly not being oriented towards gaming terminology. And if I wasn't in France, I'd be terrified of the staff anyway).

(I'll try and look up some basic painting guides online, so as not to bother you all further on that front at least!)

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Wiper, i'd at least try and get hold of the codex books for what you want to use even if it's downloading them somehow until you can pick up a proper copy. Imperial guard as far as I remember have a whole command structure thing where a troops choice used to be something like a 5 man command squad then 2-5 10 man squads just for one choice. Either that or a 10 man squad with a Chimera transport. They tend to have a lot of men. I don't have an up to date copy of the codex though so i've no idea if thats changed or not in the newest one. You could be setting yourself up for painting a lot of models though.

Going from the old codex I have you'd need at minimum a command platoon (5 men) and 2 Infantry Platoons (25 men each). It's possible this might put you off. On the upside though Imperial guard tend to be pretty good for firepower as each of those 7 squads will have a heavy weapon so I wouldn't worry about that side of things.

As for allies. If it's an imp guard army with daemon hunter allies you have to take all the compulsary choices from the parent list and you're allowed up to 1 HQ, 1 Elite, 2 Troops and 1 Fast attack from the allied list. Unfortunately Dreadnoughts are heavy support for Grey Knights so officially you would't be able to have one in an imperial guard army.

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Hmm.

Perhaps the inverse would make sense, then? As in a Daemonhunter army with allied Imp force? Would mean I could bring in the Dreadnought, and not have to worry about the Imps' confusing command structure so much as I'd be following the Daemonhunters for the core units. And I do note that the Daemonhunter core army includes Imperial Guard shocktroopers as Troops*, so I could at least flavour my forces like that. Would limit my commissars on the field, but I could still field whatever two Troops of Imps signifies, and a Valkyrie in the Fast Attack slot.

As for getting my hands on the codices, I'd really rather not download them (as I know if I did the odds of me ever buying them would drop considerably. I'm weak), though I guess I could import them (and the core rules)... it'd just be a fair bit expensive.

Oh, and thanks for the advice - it's much appreciated :(

*amusingly, as they're considered Elites if bought as part of the Imperial Guard force :wub:

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Hmm.

As for getting my hands on the codices, I'd really rather not download them (as I know if I did the odds of me ever buying them would drop considerably. I'm weak), though I guess I could import them (and the core rules)... it'd just be a fair bit expensive.

Maelstrom Games might be worth a look, around 10% discount from the RRP and free shipping worldwide. I've used them loads with no problems.

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Cheers, that should net me the IG codex at least, though they don't seem to have the Daemonhunter codex. And my god, but I'd forgotten how much the core rulebook cost >_<

Edit: I'd meant to ask this earlier, but forgot - am I also right in thinking that there are far fewer plastic kits these days, and much more of a focus on metal troops? Even squads seem regularly to be metal now, and that's a bit saddening - I loved cementing my old plastic squads together. Or perhaps it was always like this, and I just didn't notice.

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Codex: Daemonhunters is out of print. I think the plan is to have it up for download sometime soon.

More of the range is available in plastic now than ever before, and that trend will continue, but it probably won't be obvious if you're looking at the Daemonhunters and Imperial Guard ranges. Only the two main Guard Regiments (Cadians and Catachans) are in plastic, the others (Mordians, Vostroyans, Steel Legion, etc.) are all metal. If you are doing Cadians or Catachans though, most of your army can be plastic including command squads and heavy weapons. All the Daemonhunters-specific miniatures (Grey Knights, Inquisitors, etc.) are metal.

It's possible to make all-plastic Space Marine armies though, and a couple of other armies are getting close (Orks, Tau, Empire in Warhammer).

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Ahh, that'll be why then - my memories of the plastic-heavy Space Marines clearly clash with the Daemonhunter/IG metal orientation.

Seems particularly odd with the Guard though, considering how they favour mass-infantry (and tanks, of course), which would generally lend itself to plastic figures, I'd have thought. And indeed the Daemonhunters, considering many of their models are but Space Marines with different wargear. Ah well, cash for the cash god, I guess.

And didn't realise the Daemonhunter codex was OOP - seems a bit odd that they still advertise and (seemingly) sell it on Games Workshop's own site. Are they now covered in the Space Marine codex or summat, or is the out of print codex still the only place to get the rules specific to Daemonhunters?

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Seems particularly odd with the Guard though, considering how they favour mass-infantry (and tanks, of course), which would generally lend itself to plastic figures, I'd have thought.

As I said, most of the infantry for the two most popular regiments is available in plastic, Stormtrooper Squads being the major exception. Plastic miniatures have to sell far more than metals before they're profitable, so it's not feasible to do it for all 10+ regiments that have ever had miniatures.

And indeed the Daemonhunters, considering many of their models are but Space Marines with different wargear.

They were released seven years ago now, and were much more detailed than regular Space Marines at the time. If they were sculpted today, I imagine the Grey Knights in power armour at least would be done in plastic. The Design Studio is a far more advanced place today than it was c.2001, when work would have started on that army.

And didn't realise the Daemonhunter codex was OOP - seems a bit odd that they still advertise and (seemingly) sell it on Games Workshop's own site. Are they now covered in the Space Marine codex or summat, or is the out of print codex still the only place to get the rules specific to Daemonhunters?

It's just the book that's out of print. I don't think we do sell it online any more, but it's still available from some indie stores who have stock left. Again, I think the plan is to make it and Witch Hunters available as PDF downloads. Another print run probably wouldn't be economical.

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RE: Grey Knights with Guard allies.

As far as I'm aware (a little hazy on the allies section of the Grey Knights and allies) this isn't possible. I believe Grey Knights can take normal space marines as allies but not guard, which makes very little sense. I'm not even sure if Guard can take any allies (outside of doubles tournaments) as part of an official army list, but for just playing with mates and having a laugh you're good to go either way.

RE: Guard command/troop choices

They've sorted this out with the newest codex, you can just take a command squad as your HQ and two squads of 12 men as your troops I believe, if you take vets then you get two 6 men teams (I think) as troops, or they count as a HQ... can't remember. Either way at the end of the day in order to make a survivable army you'll needs lots of troops, as a 5+ save doesn't get used very much and you'll quickly find your guys back in the box once the game has started. Unless you go for a tank army...

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Right, I 'sourced' a copy of the Daemonhunter codex, justifying it in my mind with the fact I can't buy it. Anyway, if anybody else is curious/for those who weren't sure, here's the rules on incorporating an allied force:

You may have either an allied Space Marine force, or Inducted Imperial Guard, alongside a Daemonhunter force, but not both. Space Marines cannot be brought in if Grey Knights are being used (explanation being that because the Daemonhunters only call on their Space Marine allies if their Grey Knights are not able to get to the emergency in time).

The allowed units are:

Troops:

Space Marine Tactical Squad

0-1 Space Marine Scout Squad

Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

Imperial Guard Armoured Fist Squad

Fast Attack:*

0-1 Space Marine Assault Squad

0-1 Space Marine Land Speeder Tornado

0-1 Space Marine Land Speeder Squadron

0-1 Space Marine Bike Squadron

0-1 Sentinel Squadron

0-1 Rough Rider Squad

Heavy Support:*

0-1 Space Marine Devastator Squad

0-1 Space Marine Land Raider

0-1 Space Marine Predator

0-1 Space Marine Dreadnought

0-1 Leman Russ

In other words, there's no way I can legally field a Valkyrie in a Daemonhunter army, but I can have a nice swarm of infantry with a bit of support. Not so bad!

*only allowed if at least two troops choices of the armies to which they normally belong are in your army

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Wiper - I'd go with an Imperial Guard as your main army. The Demonhunters codex is showing it's age now, and is rumoured to have a new version in 2011, possibly as a combined Inquistion codex with Witchhunters.

The IG codex is relatively new, and widely regarded as pretty good. Most of the minis are plastic, and there's a good range of them. Collecting IG can be quite expensive though, as they're quite cheap points wise.

A good start for your collection (HQ+Two troops) would be :-

Platoon Command Squad w/Chimera

Veteran Squad w/Chimera

Veteran Squad w/Chimera

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Cheers for the advice there, but I don't really mind if their codex is out of date - power creep or no, the flavour matters more to me than the quality of the army in game-terms.

That being said, I've ended up deciding against going for a DH/IG allied force, simply due to real world pricing - the IG would just be prohibitively expensive.

Well, that and the fact that, as someone with an absolute beginner's level of painting skill, the large number of small and fiddly models of the IG, plus the relatively complicated designs of the Imperium's gothic-styled vehicles, would probably be overwhelming.

So, in a complete u-turn, I've decided to go for a race that's a little cheaper, and made up of units made up of clean lines, lending themselves well to flat shading - the Tau. Plus, of course, I get to indulge in my love of flying vehicles and mechs :lol: (albeit mechs that are generally less attractive the gothic joy of the dreadnoughts). Though, ironically, it's the infantry that sold me - I just really like the design of the fire warriors, and look forward to making a clean, bone-white army (with purple detail).

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So, in a complete u-turn, I've decided to go for a race that's a little cheaper, and made up of units made up of clean lines, lending themselves well to flat shading - the Tau. Plus, of course, I get to indulge in my love of flying vehicles and mechs :lol: (albeit mechs that are generally less attractive the gothic joy of the dreadnoughts). Though, ironically, it's the infantry that sold me - I just really like the design of the fire warriors, and look forward to making a clean, bone-white army (with purple detail).

Tau are nice - in a doomed attempt to start an army, the Tau was the one I went for. I got to about three I think before I decided I just couldn't cope and decided to give armies a wide berth in the future!

Only thing I'd say about your colour scheme is that painting lots of whites can be an absolute mare when it comes to coverage - it's always doable, but for an army I'd probably get more than a little pissed off with it after a while. Pale blues highlighting up to white might be an easier way to do things.

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