Games Workshop, An Appreciation Thread

[Padlocked]

Tbh I don't even know what washing is, so suspect I've now primed them, will put bad colours on then detail and maybe some highlighting if I'm brave. Then, uh, see how I'm feeling.

Seems scary hard. I must have been fearless at 12.

[Wiper]

Washes are basically paints that have been watered down (though generally not just with, er, water). Games workshop sell premade washes (they used to sell inks, which served a similar purpose). Basically, you 'wash' the model with them, i.e. cover any areas you want shaded with the wash. It coats everything with a thin shade of colour, and seeps into recesses and so ends up automatically shading the model - it's far from perfect, but it does the job. It works particularly well if you've already added basic shading and highlights yourself, as it ends up 'softening' the affect of both, making the edges less clear of your highlights and shading less clear.

[Wiper]

This link should give you an idea of what it means, and how it works (inking and washing are similar techniques).

[Padlocked]

That looks good, cheers. May be beyond my skill and budget right now - presume you do that before detail then?

I'll do a few marines and see if I'm happy with how they come out. If they're on par with the average 8 year old theyll do.

[Wiper]

It depends on how much detail you're going into, really. And assuming your budget can stretch to the £2.30 per pot of wash, it's not too wallet-busting

(admittedly, different colours will call for different washes, and I don't know what colours you'll be working with).

They shouldn't be beyond your skill, either - quite the opposite, they're often frowned upon by the snootier painters as a 'trick' which allows rookie painters look like they know what they're doing. I make use of them regularly when painting massed infantry - my 96 warriors of Minas Tirith, 40 Grey Company and 28 rangers of Gondor were finished with washes, as will the 44 rangers I'm still working on. Without washes, my models would either look very flat, or would never be finished on time. It's a useful technique to learn.

[Padlocked]

Yeah, it's just starting to add up (what with buying the board games too). I think I'll use Space Crusade to get used to the application of paint (volume, depth), work on a steady hand and pick out some details as well. I never even used a detailed brush last time round the block. As I get more confident I'll start to try some of these out I think, otherwise I'll start laying out for loads of stuff and could just find it's a waste of money.

Really appreciate all the help and advice though, so thank you.

[bcofn]

When it comes to the washes you can probably get away with just buying Devalan Mud and use that for every colour.

[Wiper]

Or, indeed, Badab Black - Devlan's good if you want to make things look a little dirtier, Badab if you just want to things to look a little weathered. As I tend to use washes just for assisted shading, rather than aging/dirtying, I match colours.

But to go back to Pelekophoros - yeah, that's understandable. I didn't start using washes until I'd gotten the hang of the basics flat-shading greenskins - just paint in whatever way is most comfortable for you!

[Padlocked]

This is basically what I'm painting:

http://twitpic.com/6jdojl

And this was them post white spray:

http://twitpic.com/6je4hq

So they're not the prettiest figures to go with from the off. A mixture of marines, orcs, gretchin, androids, chaos marines, genestealers and a Dreadnaught. I've got 10 colours to kick things of with:

Red, yellow, blue, black, White, 'skin' brown, purple, green and grey. I've also got a couple of other colours in the garage which I'll use as well (silver and metallic blue I think.

Between them I reckon I can do just normal bog standard painting, try out some brush techniques, pick out details and get to a point where I can then apply a wash later. Let's face it, there are a mass of figures to get to grips with it.

Thanks so much for all the tips guys.

[Cocky]

If you are painting blood angels and imperial fists and have quite a limited range of paints you might be interested to know that you can create an ideal shading colour by mixing the base with it's compliment. So for red use green and yellow use purple.

[Herbalizer]

Where can I get some nice Dice from? Someone told me the name of a website in GW today, but I've forgotten it already.

My army is coming along nicely now. Picked up a Librarian as my HQ and a pack of Terminators today. I'll definitely have a playable army by Oct 1st.

[Wiper]

Getting close now: only 26 models to go - 24 rangers, 1 mounted Faramir, 1 mounted Aragorn. And thanks to the incredibly generous Lyon-Jacques, I have a horse ready-painted for Faramir to be plonked on top of (admittedly, he'll be riding the only brown horse among the white stallions of the knights of Dol Amroth, but that's Faramir, always the odd one out ).

Admittedly, 19 of my rangers could do with more detailing - they don't even have boots or quarrels painted - but they're tournament legal. If I'm lucky, I'll have the time next week to tidy them up.

But still: 178 models painted (not including the 16 warriors and 16 archers of Minas Tirith that I'm not using) out of 204, and thirteen days to do the remainder in. Feels good 8)

[Wiper]

Oh, and I meant to say regarding dice:

If you really care about the randomness of your dice, the GameScience dice are meant to be very good... good luck getting them in the UK, though.

If you want pretty dice, however, just look for places that stock Chessex dice - they're no worse than the dice you'll get with board games/GW products, and come in a variety of fun and interesting designs.

[Padlocked]

So this magic wash. Will it fix these?

http://twitpic.com/6k15w5

(I am truly, truly shit - 45 minutes that "detailing" took me)

[Wiper]

Wash won't really do anything for the black sections, but applied liberally to the red armour it should help give it a weathered texture, and to add shading to the cracks. That said, washes are less effective the less moulded detail there is on the model, and these old Space Marine figures are particularly simple in design - the was should still weather it well enough, but it won't be brilliant for shading. I'm also not sure what colour to use for red - one of the browns, quite possibly Devlan Mud, I'd guess, but you'll want another space marine painter to advise you really.

And don't beat yourself up: painting is always slow going, and any sort of detailing is difficult to do. The more you do it, the more your technique improves; we all have to start somewhere! Also, the models aren't helping you - the old figures don't have that much detail moulded onto them, and the more detail built in, the easier it is to paint, simply matching colours to the moulded detail.

One piece of general advice though - as you can probably tell, large swathes of pure black paint will tend to wipe out any detail, as they cover up all shadows. If you want a colour scheme involving black, it's best to use it sparingly, in detailing, and/or to soften it by mixing it with a grey. Otherwise, you'll have to spend a lot of time picking out details everywhere to give it some definition. Even so, what you've got there is a particularly heavy black - could well be the brand you're using, or it could be that you're layering it on too thick. Always use thin, light brushes of paint, ideally watered down slightly -particularly when using black!

[Wiper]

Actually, while they're far from perfect, the Games Workshop site has a raft of articles about painting, from general techniques to step-by-step guides that might be helpful. And, handily, they're always loaded with pictures.

Some useful ones (it's worth loading one up in advance, as the site may ask you where you're from the first time you visit; after that they should all load immediately):

• Step-by-step guide to painting Blood Angels (don't worry about matching these guides perfectly - generally they end up beyond my ability to mimic, but they give you a good idea of how to proceed)
  
• How washes work
  
• An article on mixing paints
  

And there are plenty of others - it's certainly worth browsing their articles.

[Padlocked]

Cheers dude. The large sections of black appeared after my brush slipped. Shan't use it again!

[remute]

I picked up one of the new finecast Zoanthropes from GW over the weekend and was pretty impressed by the quality. The detail on it is far sharper than that of the metal mini, it goes together a damn sight easier and also is nowhere near as top heavy.

94 models to make, 101 to paint with 31 complete for my game in January.

The two best pieces of I've ever been given about painting are to thin the paint until its about the consistency of milk, my models have improved immensely since I started doing that, as it means you can get a nice flat even colour, rather than the lumpy consistency that I used to get and just to practice. You'll be amazed how quickly you start to see improvements .

[Herbalizer]

Can someone explain the invunerable save rule to me please? My Terminators have a 5+ inv save, but i'm not sure what I have to role to save the wound. Surely its not a 5 or a 6?

I'm finding a lot of the rules baffling as they are poorly explained in the rule book, hopefully I can play a game this Thursday, I think playing the game is the best way for me to learn.

[idespair]

All ranged attacks have an AP value from 1-6 (or none at all). If this is equal to or less than the normal saving throw, then it cancels it out.

In 40k you only get to make a single saving throw per wound allocated to a model, which is always the best save currently available to you.

Terminators have a 2+/5++ (++ is the typical shorthand for invulnerable) save which means that even if they are hit by an AP1 or AP2 weapon (which cancels their normal save), they can still use their invulnerable save of 5++. If they were in cover then they would also receive a 4++ invulnerable save, which would be used instead of their normal invulnerable save.

In close combat, the Terminators would get to make their normal 2+ save against most attacks, except for those made by power weapons or monstrous creatures. These always ignore armour. However they would still get to make an invulnerable save of 5++. Cover saves aren't applicable in close combat.

Some weapons ignore cover saves, but you would still get to make your invulnerable save. A very few models can also ignore invulnerable saves, but that's nothing to worry about.

1. Terminator is wounded by a Bolter (AP5). Make your 2+ armour save.

2. Terminator is wounded by a Melta Gun (AP1). AP1 negates the 2+ armour save, but you can still make a 5++ invulnerable save.

3. Terminator in cover is wounded by a Melta Gun (AP1). AP1 negates the 2+ armour save, but cover provides a 4++ invulnerable save which is better than your standard 5++.

If it all sounds a bit confusing, just bear in mind - you get to make one save per wound inflicted, and that will be the best save currently available to you out of normal, cover and invulnerable.

[Herbalizer]

Cheers fella. So I'm right in thinking that the lower the save value the better?

[Wiper]

Yep. 2+ is as good as it gets. That said, a 5+ invulnerable save is good, because most people don't get an invulnerable save at all. And of course the 2+ armour save that Terminators have is particularly nasty, far, far better than the average.

[Wiper]

(I also have to say that this is one of the areas where I prefer War of the Ring, which eschews any armour/invulnerable/ward/cover saves. It also skips the whole 'roll to hit' rigmarole. Instead, there's a single roll for attacks, and that's it. The number of attacks can be increased and decreased according to the warriors' respective Fight values and positional issues (charge bonus, penalties for being attacked in the flank or rear etc.), and the numbers that have to be rolled for a kill are modified by the Strength of the attacker and Defence of the, er, defender, but that's it. One roll, one result. Nice and elegant)

[Padlocked]

So you've got the disaster that was my first 2 Blood Angels further up thread. After following the advice on here I did a bit of dry brushing on one with the shitty paints I had. I went overboard, but it brought him out better:

Which basically convinced me I needed better brushes and some different paints, so I took the unopened shitty ones I had back and got some proper Citadel paints and a dry brush:

Which let me slap Devlan Mud all over the Blood Angels. I went overboard and you're right - the lack of detail isn't helpful. They look a little better though, and now they're less shiny:

Which lead to me trying my first Genestealer, which as more detail. Undercoated in black, 2 coats of Bleached Bone on top and then a wash of Leviathan Purple has brought it to this:

Provided I can do various bits of highlighting well enough, that's a pretty fast way of getting a workable set of reasonably painted miniatures done.

[Wiper]

Yep, they're looking a lot nicer - the genestealer in particular is looking hideous (in a good, appropriate-for-a-genestealer way). I really wish I knew where my Hero Quest sets were now, I've got a hankering to get the models all painted up... but no, I'll at least finish my War of the Ring army first.

And once that's done, I may have to try painting my other War of the Ring army - by which I mean the Fantasy Flight board game War of the Ring, just received from jonnyalpha, and its plethora of dinky little plastics. At least the 204 figures for it are tiny little things, so hopefully won't take quite as long as the Gondorians that preceded them!

[Padlocked]

Took advantage of a late lunch to finish off the Genestealer.

Limitations on colours meant that I was a little stuck - mix up something with the blue and purple for the traditional blue/purple Space Hulk Genestealer carapace or go for something different? Not being the biggest fan of the traditional I thought I'd try something different.

Went with the Lich Purple dry brushed around shell areas and then for something a bit organic, I used Tallarn Flesh dry brushed over the top of the..uh..flesh areas. It brings up a nice contrast, but that Lich Purple is still an ugly fucking colour.

I'm not happy with the claws - I think I need to practice blending to get the "dried blood" effect I was after but it'll do. I've got 2 more Genestealers from the Space Crusade pack, plus a spare Moose chucked in on Hulk, to find the colour combination I'm after for the main brood in Hulk.

[Padlocked]

Just dropped Devlan Mud over the top of that to see what it'd look like, and it's got rid of all the garishness. Rather than spam with MORE pictures, I uploaded them here

FRONT: http://twitpic.com/6l9e51

BACK: http://twitpic.com/6l9e67

That stuff really does add quite some depth to shadows, doesn't it?

[Wiper]

Yep, washes love models with lots of nooks and crannies to settle in. Magic

[Benji Dude]

Common compliment of Devlan Mud around gaming clubs/stores is that it fixes everything and will one day cure cancer!

[Herbalizer]

My Grey Knight army is growing quickly. I've just put together at 1200 list, stick another Dreadnought and a Razorback in and I'll be done I think.