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Games Workshop, An Appreciation Thread


Lorfarius
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5th had lots of small changes, but nothing radical - the main things were true line of sight, cover from almost anything, wound allocation and the removal of consolidation into combat. It was meant to simplify the game to broaden its appeal, but in reality just neutered it.

From what I've read so far, 6th is a huge rethink of every phase of the game.

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I think it's just a question of product

Yeah i'd image so. Space Hulk did really well because of the legacy behind it. If Dreadfleet had actually been a new version of Man'o'War it probably would have sold out. I'm continually amazed and disappointed a new Warhammer Quest hasn't shown up yet.

The stupid thing I guess is that Dreadfleet was trying to do something new and it didn't work out. Re-hashes of old games are what people want (with shiny new mini's of course).

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I'm quite excited about 6ed. The rumours suggest chaos getting a more prominent role and after reading the horus heresy and night lord novels I'm looking forward to doing a chaos space marine army. The current models are too bland for my tastes and I have little skill in converting so I'm hoping gw deliver with the new kits.

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So I've wanted to own a copy of Rogue Trader for years for nostalgia reasons, the joy of reading all the information and the fact that I've had a 40K story in my head for about 20 years that I want to get down and I think Rogue Trader has the most information on the 40K universe out of all the editions (ore knowledgeable people, feel free to correct me if I'm talking rubbish). The problem is it costs a fucking fortune. What should be a sensible price to pay for it on ebay?

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I think Rogue Trader has the most information on the 40K universe out of all the editions (ore knowledgeable people, feel free to correct me if I'm talking rubbish)

The background has changed an awful lot since Rogue Trader was published, and there wasn't all that much in there anyway. The background evolved across multiple games and rulebooks released during 1st and 2nd edition 40k. From 1st edition, you'd really need the supplements for anything vaguely in line with the current books: the Compendium, the Compilation, the Book of the Astronomican and the two Realm of Chaos books. Maybe Waaagh: The Orks and 'Ere We Go too. All of which are rarer and more expensive on eBay. You'd get a much better overview from the current rule book and maybe a copy of The Horus Heresy: Collected Visions.

If you really want a copy and don't want to get ripped off on eBay, it must turn up in charity shops and at car boot sales all the time for pennies.

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If you're interested in Chaos at all then tracking down the hardback collected edition of Liber Chaotica is one of your best bets. It may well be out of print now but should still be available for around £20, whereas the original soft backs will go for considerably more.

The new Fantasy Flight RPGs (Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch and Black Crusade) also have a wealth of 40K information - crucially, they're all the current version of the background as GW have tidied/changed it a lot over the years.

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Liber Chaotica is great but, if you're specifically after information about the 40k universe, you won't get much out of it. It's 95% Warhammer with a couple of brief "visions of another world" interludes. It goes for stupid money when out of print too.

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No it isn't. You're just not 14 any more.

:lol:

I was actually 14 when Rogue Trader was released!

But I remain a massive sci-fi geek so I don't think that is the answer.

40K is one of the only games played in my neck of the woods (by my friends at least) but I just cannot get into it. For me the background/fluff is execrable.

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Most complaints about Games Workshop can be reduced to "make it like it was when I was 14 years old", regardless of who's complaining. It's uncanny.

The background in Rogue Trader is so thin and sketchy, your imagination had to fill the gaps. What GW filled the gaps with has been pretty consistent since the late 80s. It's never really been sci-fi in anything more than the most superficial sense, but it looked more like it back then. Mostly because Citadel's mould room was full of figures originally made for games like Traveller.

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Yeah as an owner of Realm of Chaos - The Lost and the Damned, it's got a great bunch of 40k stuff in there, Horus Heresey sorta stuff, including a lovely two page illustration of Horus squaring up to the Emperor (although I'll admit to focussing on the WFB stuff). I really should hunt down Slaves to Darkness...

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Most complaints about Games Workshop can be reduced to "make it like it was when I was 14 years old", regardless of who's complaining. It's uncanny.

The background in Rogue Trader is so thin and sketchy, your imagination had to fill the gaps. What GW filled the gaps with has been pretty consistent since the late 80s. It's never really been sci-fi in anything more than the most superficial sense, but it looked more like it back then. Mostly because Citadel's mould room was full of figures originally made for games like Traveller.

That is exactly what I used to love about it.

But then by the time Rogue Trader came out I'd been playing Traveller for about 4 years.

I agree that the "Golden Age" for most gamers is the period between them discovering gaming and discovering girls and booze.

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Most complaints about Games Workshop can be reduced to "make it like it was when I was 14 years old", regardless of who's complaining. It's uncanny.

That's probably the finest summation of the collected GW-related message boards/blogs which I've ever read. Warseer's GW Discussion forum is particularly amusing for this kind of thing - my favourites are the 'I went into GW and they tried to sell me something' complaint threads.

I agree that the "Golden Age" for most gamers is the period between them discovering gaming and discovering girls and booze.

I played games until I discovered girls & booze. Then I discovered drugs and met my wife to be. Then I got married and back into gaming.

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:lol:

I was actually 14 when Rogue Trader was released!

But I remain a massive sci-fi geek so I don't think that is the answer.

40K is one of the only games played in my neck of the woods (by my friends at least) but I just cannot get into it. For me the background/fluff is execrable.

I feel the exact opposite really. I love the background set up to it all, I love the figures and all that but I fine the games themselves absolutely dull as anything. And seemingly bare no relevance to the vast swathes of background that GW drew up!

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I feel the exact opposite really. I love the background set up to it all, I love the figures and all that but I fine the games themselves absolutely dull as anything. And seemingly bare no relevance to the vast swathes of background that GW drew up!

I'm the same. Whilst I will occasionally buy miniatures such as the malifaux stuff or the gw ogres I bought today because I think they'll be fun to paint, I prefer miniatures to which I have an attachment to the background. Hence why I have almost all of the lotr characters and 30+ rohan cavalry. I also bought some space wolves on the back reading Prospero Burns and will happily give over most of my disposable income to gw if they ever release a Horus Heresy range.

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I feel the exact opposite really. I love the background set up to it all, I love the figures and all that but I fine the games themselves absolutely dull as anything. And seemingly bare no relevance to the vast swathes of background that GW drew up!

Spot on,

They've created this lovely rich, incredibly detailed universe packed with possibilities - yet I find the 40k game dull as fuck, and just a huge drawn out affair, devoid of fun.

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Oddly enough I was thumbing through my copy of Rogue Trader the other day.

Waddie is right, the background in it is rather sparse and basic. It's full of inconsistencies and stuff which now comes across as primitive. Races like the Jokero are just stupid. Cutting them some slack they were creating this stuff for the first time, and this grim vision was all there albeit in framework form and needing some fine tuning

I reckon the RPG books that FFG have put out would probably be a better source of 40k lore. The Dark Heresy books I have seem packed with it.

Having said all that - I absolutely love poking thought my copy of Rogue Trader, it's really worth having a copy, even as a curio

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Races like the Jokero are just stupid. Cutting them some slack they were creating this stuff for the first time

:lol:

m1720126a_99060107066_Jokaero_445x319.jpg

They were a bit of characteristic Rick Priestley ingenuity really. You probably wouldn't have models for any unique aliens they thought up, and they might never get round to making everything in the book, but you'd be able to get hold of mundane ape, cat or bird figures - Britains Farm/Zoo models or whatever.

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including a lovely two page illustration of Horus squaring up to the Emperor

I love that picture, the first time I think any of the artists had attempted the Emperor properly (aside from the odd sketch or pic of him as a skeletal husk surrounded by tubes)

horus_vs_emperor.jpg

The best version I can find.

I treasure my copy of Lost and Damned

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They were a bit of characteristic Rick Priestley ingenuity really. You probably wouldn't have models for any unique aliens they thought up, and they might never get round to making everything in the book, but you'd be able to get hold of mundane ape, cat or bird figures - Britains Farm/Zoo models or whatever.

Good point.

There was a big DIY element to the game, I loved the section at the back on creating your own terrain, buildings and vehicles. Proper Blue Peter stuff, but you couldn't go out buy anything in that dept back then. The first ever Rhino kit they released was a big deal.

I'd spend weeks in our shed back home as a kid pouring over my copy of 40k RT, cobbling together all sorts. A bunch of modular board tiles, plant pot bunkers, some ruins I'd made from a polystyrene window box and carefully melted with aerosols and painted up. Looked well ace that did - in my memory :unsure:

God I must sound like a right sad old bastard :(:blah:

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I actually have far more time for the Jokero than Orks!

I agree that I don't think 40K is a great game either. But I could put that to one side if I could get over the bloody background.

Which I can't.

Most of the GW stuff is terribly derivative but in the 40K universe it seems much more obvious. There is no way I would describe it as a "lovely rich, incredibly detailed universe".

Almost all the concepts are stolen from someone else and then fantasy tropes have been grafted on.

Then other bits were added later that don't really fit with the rest of the universe - Tau.

Now I could forgive all of that if the end result wasn't so juvenile and unimaginative. But I think it is.

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I love that picture, the first time I think any of the artists had attempted the Emperor properly (aside from the odd sketch or pic of him as a skeletal husk surrounded by tubes)

horus_vs_emperor.jpg

The best version I can find.

I treasure my copy of Lost and Damned

Damn. What a blast from the past.

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The newer books etc - clearly designed to actually flesh it out - are pretty interesting. Well, I say newer. The Space Hulk novelisation was like a session report, Space Marine was pretty good, Reach was solid enough, but I'm just getting stuck into the Horus Heresy. Seems pretty special so far.

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I'm the same. Whilst I will occasionally buy miniatures such as the malifaux stuff or the gw ogres I bought today because I think they'll be fun to paint, I prefer miniatures to which I have an attachment to the background. Hence why I have almost all of the lotr characters and 30+ rohan cavalry. I also bought some space wolves on the back reading Prospero Burns and will happily give over most of my disposable income to gw if they ever release a Horus Heresy range.

Whatever you do, don't go to forgeworld and look at their range of "historic" Space Marine Armour sets. Mk 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6, all available with "pre-heresy" weapons as well.

mkv-3.jpg

They now also sell RT-styled Land Raiders

proteusdflt.jpg

and Rhinos

rhinomkdeimosbw1.jpg

and Predators

preddeimos1.jpg

I could quite happily spend a moderate lottery win on that stuff. I might have to content myself with a squad of Mark 6 in honour of my sadly departed RTB01 beaky Space Wolves

mkVI-4.jpg

But, at 21 quid for 5 weaponless marines, another tenner for 10 umbra-pattern bolters, and a further tenner for the heavy weapons, that's a lot of wedge for 5 marines.

Pelekophoros, the first 3 Horus Heresy books are pretty special - the ones since have been ups and downs. Mechanicum and the Thousand Sons / Space Wolves pair are pretty good. The Dark Angels books I could have happily skipped, though.

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