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Rllmuk's Official Sales Figures Thread


Boyatsea
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The thing is, the switch from CRT to flat-screens just makes sense. People didn't need convincing and, as mentioned before, for many people it was just because they looked nice and saved space.

I think Blu-Ray will be a harder sell as DVDs look very good, whereas video cassettes looked rubbish and felt antiquated.

People bought LCDs etc because they had no choice.

There was no CRT alternative given - There was a wholesale shift - Why? beacue the manufactureres decided to make the shift, on a basis of cost. Not the consumer, we had no say in it whatsoever.

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No.

I to a certain extent I mean that.

Not owning a DVD player if you have the slightest interest in watching stuff is not really an option at the moment - The same extends to BlURau for the exactly the same reasons. At some point, you aren't going to be able tyo get what you want on DVD.

I see what you mean and you are probably right.

But coming (relatively) so soon after DVD, with downloads getting easier/cheaper/more available, HD on demand from TV companies can Blu-Ray replicate the success of DVD?

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I see what you mean and you are probably right.

But coming (relatively) so soon after DVD, with downloads getting easier/cheaper/more available, HD on demand from TV companies can Blu-Ray replicate the success of DVD?

I think as Ste said, it all depends how willing studios etc are willing to sell product to people like Virgin et al and when they are willing to do it.

I personally think they studios know they can get revenue from BluRay sales and DVD sales , then after a period of time sell the product to Sky and get more revenue, and then eventually to terrestrial TV and get more revenue.

Why cut off of the streams and have it available everywhere from the off?

It makes no sense.

As far as I see it, BluRay will eventually have everything first. The same as DVD does now. THe only difference is you are replaceing DVD with BluRay. The cost of production becomes cheaper than it does for DVD, hence the studios switch (plus they get revenue from re-releases on bluray, which is effectively all profit)

The manufacuturers get a premuim from Early adopters and then drop the price and get people to pay the same money all over again for a BluRay player to replace thier DVD one (since BluRay is now gettign all the films first and with more features) - ANd they dont ave to drop to the silly price DVD players ar enow for a few years, meaning more money for everyone.

The retailers want BluRay because the retail price is higher, meaning a bigger cut.

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I'm not sure the switch from DVD to Blu Ray follows the pattern of the other switches you mention.

CRT to flat panel is easy to understand. Massive switch in technology, factory set up etc. Possibly impractical to support both, the new one is a lot cheaper and more conventient for everyone in involved (consumers and manufactuers). Even the switch from VHS to DVD is similar - more convenient for everyone (consumers and manufacturers), smaller, lighter, cheaper to make. Same for vinyl to tape to CD.

In every case the new technology is fundamentally cheaper (once you've got over the initial high price due to it being brand new tech), smaller, lighter, more convenient, and less hassle to both make and use.

Blu Ray is a more complicated version of DVD. They will never be cheaper to make. They will never be lighter. They will never be more convenient to use. In many respect they will be exactly the same as DVD (weight, size, cost of shipping, packaging etc.), in others slightly worse than DVD (probably always will be slightly more expensive to make, even if negligably so, slightly more hassle to master as you're dealing with bigger files, better fidelity etc), and in others slightly better (better picture / audio quality).

Those reasons don't add up to a *need* for manufacturers to switch, as in the other cases (one type of 5inch optical disk isn't ever going to be fundamentally massively cheaper to produce than another simpler form of 5inch optical disk). Neither is there a massive compulsion for users to switch. It's not different enough from DVD to follow the same pattern.

I don't think manufacturers will be able to switch off the supply of £5 DVDs to replace it with a supply of £15 blu rays. They might want to, but they won't be able to. Big companies don't always get their way when it's against the will of the consumer.

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Have we had the LittleBigPanet numbers yet? There's a lot to trawl through in this thread.

http://kotaku.com/5110889/littlebigplanet-...ales-disappoint

Apparently the UK sales have been better, I can;t get the link because it's taken 5 minutes for me to get into this tab to edit my post :lol:

My brother has a PS3 and he was asking me what that game with the 'wee man made of cloth' was all about. I explained it to him as positively as possible, told him that if I had a PS3 I'd definitely buy it. "Best game on the PS3" I said.

"It looks rubbish"

:huh:

He also didn't get super mario galaxy because he reckoned it was rubbish because 'the wee man is upside down'.

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If the 360 passes the original Xbox's total by the end of the year, that'll be roughly 3 years right? How long was the original Xbox on sale for before the 360 came out? We should be able to compare MS' progress this generation pretty accurately from that information.

It's just passed it.

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CRT to flat panel is easy to understand. Massive switch in technology, factory set up etc. Possibly impractical to support both, the new one is a lot cheaper and more conventient for everyone in involved (consumers and manufactuers). Even the switch from VHS to DVD is similar - more convenient for everyone (consumers and manufacturers), smaller, lighter, cheaper to make. Same for vinyl to tape to CD.

THe point I was trying to make Ste is that the switch from CRT to LCD/Plasma was complee and the consumer did not have an input into that change. it happened whether we wanted it or not.

In terms of manufacture, it certainly was not cheaper until economies of scale made it so, and the same applies to BluRay. You create the Market, then ramp up production.

In every case the new technology is fundamentally cheaper (once you've got over the initial high price due to it being brand new tech), smaller, lighter, more convenient, and less hassle to both make and use.

I disagree that it is fundamentally cheaper - rather economies of scale make it so. In relative terms, the components cost of a VHS and a DVD player are very similar, it is only economie sof scale that force the price down - A control PCB for a VHS will be no cheaper to make than a DVD one other than quantites.

I don't think manufacturers will be able to switch off the supply of £5 DVDs to replace it with a supply of £15 blu rays. They might want to, but they won't be able to. Big companies don't always get their way when it's against the will of the consumer.

Again I disagree I think the consumer is used to paying £12-£16 for a DVD, not £5. Most DVD sales of of chart titles and these don't go for £5.

Blu Ray is a more complicated version of DVD. They will never be cheaper to make. They will never be lighter. They will never be more convenient to use. In many respect they will be exactly the same as DVD (weight, size, cost of shipping, packaging etc.), in others slightly worse than DVD (probably always will be slightly more expensive to make, even if negligably so, slightly more hassle to master as you're dealing with bigger files, better fidelity etc), and in others slightly better (better picture / audio quality).

Again, if you can fit on one BluRay what you can fit on 2 DVDs then your material cost is halved not to mention cuts in replication times.

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My brother has a PS3 and he was asking me what that game with the 'wee man made of cloth' was all about. I explained it to him as positively as possible, told him that if I had a PS3 I'd definitely buy it. "Best game on the PS3" I said.

"It looks rubbish"

:lol:

He also didn't get super mario galaxy because he reckoned it was rubbish because 'the wee man is upside down'.

The man has logic!

:huh:

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Again I disagree I think the consumer is used to paying £12-£16 for a DVD, not £5. Most DVD sales of of chart titles and these don't go for £5.

There are a LOT of Dvds out there for a fiver. They aren't charting because there's a lot of choice and the sales are spread amongst many, many titles.

I bet the sales of 5 quid (or similarly cheap) DVDs dwarfs those of the top 10.

I remember years ago somebody at Sony pointing out that the average price of a CD was 6quid despite chart albums selling for 12ish.

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There are a LOT of Dvds out there for a fiver. They aren't charting because there's a lot of choice and the sales are spread amongst many, many titles.

I bet the sales of 5 quid (or similarly cheap) DVDs dwarfs those of the top 10.

I remember years ago somebody at Sony pointing out that the average price of a CD was 6quid despite chart albums selling for 12ish.

If I went into Blockbusters just now I could buy any DVD released over 3 months ago for less than £6.

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Can you fit twice as much on BluRay at BluRay quality? Genuine question I have no idea.

Im not sure you can, but I do know that "typically" a 2 disc edition DVD will be a single BluRay release. I suspect the features are SD. Certainly that seems to be the case on the BRs I own.

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There are a LOT of Dvds out there for a fiver. They aren't charting because there's a lot of choice and the sales are spread amongst many, many titles.

I bet the sales of 5 quid (or similarly cheap) DVDs dwarfs those of the top 10.

You may be right , John.

I was just trying to say that the "headline" cost, of a DVD is "12-£16 - That is a for a chart DVD in , say, Tescos. BluRays are £15-£20. - The difference is coming down all the time.

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I disagree that it is fundamentally cheaper - rather economies of scale make it so. In relative terms, the components cost of a VHS and a DVD player are very similar, it is only economie sof scale that force the price down - A control PCB for a VHS will be no cheaper to make than a DVD one other than quantites.

I was more talking about the media, than the players. Disks are massively cheaper to make than tapes.

Again, if you can fit on one BluRay what you can fit on 2 DVDs then your material cost is halved not to mention cuts in replication times.

Hmm. Not sure about that. If you're putting multiple disks worth of DVD quality on a blu ray, yeah, there's some value to the consumer. But then you've lost the other advantage which is higher fidelity. Doesn't seem a really compelling reason to switch.

THe point I was trying to make Ste is that the switch from CRT to LCD/Plasma was complee and the consumer did not have an input into that change. it happened whether we wanted it or not.

In terms of manufacture, it certainly was not cheaper until economies of scale made it so, and the same applies to BluRay. You create the Market, then ramp up production.

The point I'm making is the big business very often tries to force consumers to switch from one technology to another - one that's better for business - and they regularly fail.

I say that they only succeed when there's a happy marriage of increased convenience to both manufacturers AND consumers. If LCD / Plasmas were cheaper to manufacture (or would be eventually), but were bigger and bulkier and otherwise less convenient for consumers, they would have failed, no matter how hard the electronics companies tried to make them succeed. They've only been able to switch off the supply of CRTs and SD TVs because consumers WANT flat screen TVs.

I'm not convinced the same is true of blu ray over DVD. If they switch silently, without requiring people to pay any more (if disks cost the same, BR players replace DVD players in the shops at the same price), then of course blu ray will take over. While there's a premium to pay for BR over DVD, DVD will remain, because there isnt' a compelling reasons for consumers to switch, no matter how much the big companies would like them to.

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Im not sure you can, but I do know that "typically" a 2 disc edition DVD will be a single BluRay release. I suspect the features are SD. Certainly that seems to be the case on the BRs I own.

Slightly OT but what do they do with with TV stuff filmed in SD? Do they upscale it?

I quite like the idea of an entire Doctor Who series on single disk rather than a cumbersome box set. DVD quality is fine by me. The source material isn't HD anyway.

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And all new (proper) DVDs are about £13-15 on the highstreet. Not too much less than Blu-ray.

How much is not much?

High street Blu-Ray prices are closer to £20. Online they are closer to £15, but online new DVDs are often closer to £10. When ever I've been thinking baout it ther always seems to be a £4/5 price difference.

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The point I'm making is the big business very often tries to force consumers to switch from one technology to another - one that's better for business - and they regularly fail.

One slight wrinkle is that Sony own both Blu-Ray and a film studio - this *could* be used as a forcing device if they want to get annoying about it, by only releasing Sony Pictures films on Blu-Ray at some point in the near future. Of course, there would be a huge drop in profit from DVD sales, which if Sony is having problems getting credit, may not help them much...

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Yeah, generally £3-4 which isn't too bad. I'm sure BDs are cheaper now than DVDs were at the same age.

I think that's true. I remember DVDs staying at the £20-ish mark for an age, although that could have been before I started shopping online!

When you say £4 it doesn't sound much, but it's still what about 33% extra to the DVD price. I think until the prices are equal most will still go for DVD. Plus Blu-Ray deals are 2 for £25, hardly a bargin compared to the DVD offers that are always around.

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Slightly OT but what do they do with with TV stuff filmed in SD? Do they upscale it?

I quite like the idea of an entire Doctor Who series on single disk rather than a cumbersome box set. DVD quality is fine by me. The source material isn't HD anyway.

I beleive its upscaled, John. But I dont know if that is across the board. Band of Brothers for example is a 6 disc DVD set and , yup, a 6 disc BluRay. I am sure they could fit the whole lot on 2 discs if it were SD.

I suspect they are making HD a pre-requisite for BluRay releases, when as you rightly say, they don't really need to for stuff that you just want the convenience of a single disc .

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I suspect they are making HD a pre-requisite for BluRay releases, when as you rightly say, they don't really need to for stuff that you just want the convenience of a single disc .

And the fact that both the player and the TV can upscale in realtime so it's utterly pointless to store upscaled video on the disk.

I wonder how many Blu Ray disks are upscaled.

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And the fact that both the player and the TV can upscale in realtime so it's utterly pointless to store upscaled video on the disk.

Unless they have super-duper upscaling algorithmns running on fancy computers not running in real-time. Do they? Does it make a difference?

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I bought a HDMI DVD player from sainsburys for 40 quid and the image of a DVD through it is very good. Sure - blu-rays are better but there's no reason for me to justify the expense when DVD's are so cheap. The players are plummeting in price though - 160 quid from amazon. I suspect I'll get one at some point next year.

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you know what I find funny about all this HD talk

the biggest selling versions of Guitar Hero and Rock Band right now are the Wii versions. For all their 'gimped' SD and DLC support.

Rock Band 1 on the Wii is outselling the follow up on the 360 or PS3.

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and one last thing

(I've been away all weekend - need to catch up)

cracking article from game|life

On the occasion of last week's announcement of a release date for Dragon Quest IXand the development of Dragon Quest Xon Wii, Nintendo president Satoru Iwata made some interesting comments about the popular RPG series.

Here's what Iwata had to say, as quoted on 1up:

With the release of Dragon Quest IX, there are two things I'd like to make reality. The first is to build a thriving Japanese game market together with Dragon Questthat rivals the West's. The second is to form a strong tag team to promote Dragon Questoverseas. At Nintendo, we were able to popularize the Brain Ageseries overseas, which was said to be unmarketable. I want to increase the number of people worldwide that understand the appeal of Dragon Quest, which represents all Japanese gaming culture...even if that only turns out to be a single person. I'm looking forward to working together with Mr. Horii and Square Enix.

The significance of these brief remarks should not be overlooked.

Iwata's comments about wanting to build a "thriving Japanese game market" would indicate, at least, that he believes the current Japanese game market is best described as something less than "thriving." Indeed, the only company that seems to be totally happy these days is Iwata's. Japan's market has rebounded from the lows circa 2003, but that's primarily because of the phenomenon that is the Nintendo DS.

Meanwhile, Japanese publishers don't know what to do about home consoles -- PlayStation 3 hardware sales are in the toilet, but third-party Wii games aren't selling, either. So instead of trying to figure it out and potentially losing a bunch of money in the process, they're turning to Nintendo DS and PSP. This is leading to a huge separation in the markets, since Western consumers are looking for home console games but Japanese players seem to have migrated in great numbers to portables.

The announcement, two years ago, that Dragon Quest IXwould arrive on Nintendo DS certainly gave game publishers the confidence to latch on to that platform. Hence the reason for Iwata's "big smile," as reported by Japanese game blogs, when Dragon Quest mastermind Yuji Horii blurted out that the tenth game would arrive on Wii. Even if it takes three years before it happens, just knowing that it is coming will make consumers more confident in buying Wii, and publishers more confident in putting big-name games on the platform. If you don't think that such a major ripple effect could happen, then you don't understand just how huge Dragon Questis in Japan.

And that's Iwata's second issue: Dragon Questis part of the pantheon of Japanese popular culture, but it's just another game series in America. One that doesn't sell that well. One wonders what plan Iwata and Square Enix have cooked up. If it just means that Nintendo will pay for television advertising and host a Dragon Questdrinks night in San Francisco, then maybe the game will sell a few more units.

But what if Nintendo is planning on taking the entire burden off of Square Enix and actually publishing Dragon Quest IXitself? In that case, it would be a fascinating repeat of history. Almost exactly 20 years ago, in August 1989, Nintendo of America, flush with success in the U.S. to a degree that no other Japanese gamemaker had ever experienced, decided to try to get America interested in Japan's popular RPG genre.

You might remember that Nintendo licensed the first Dragon Questfrom Enix, retitled it Dragon Warrior, and published it to great fanfare in the U.S.

You might also remember that Dragon Warriorwas a huge flop.

With Nintendo and Square Enix in roughly the same positions two decades later, it'll be interesting to see if this time their efforts actually do spark Dragon Questpassion in the rest of the world. Brain Ageis one thing, but a cartoony role-playing game is quite another.

Whether or not the plan succeeds, it's clear that Nintendo, for all its worldwide success, is still fundamentally a Japanese company that wants its home market to be strong, both domestically and worldwide.

It's also clear from today's remarks the extent to which the worm has turned. As early as two years ago, when Square Enix and Nintendo executives showed up at press conferences together, it was generally seen as a huge win... for Nintendo,to have the support of this bedrock of Japanese gaming.

These days, the positions seem to have flipped: It's Square Enix, having bet on the wrong horse in this race, that needs to ally itself with power players. To paraphrase one of the message board posts: Compare it to the Square Enix of 2006, just before PlayStation 3 and Wii launched, the company that believed itself to be the kingmaker and the decider of the console wars, the company that said this to the Wall Street Journal :

We don't want the PlayStation 3 to be the overwhelming loser, so we want to support them. But we don't want them to be the overwhelming winner either, so we can't support them too much.

The sorely misguided belief that the strategy of your game publishing company will determine the outcome of the console wars -- and not vice versa -- is what has Square Enix racing to play catch-up this generation. And to have Nintendo's president announce to the world that he will partner with your company to sell your games in the Western markets, where Reggie & Co. are currently -- there is no other way to put it -- kicking ass and taking names, well... that's a huge win for Square Enix.

Let's just hope Nintendo doesn't end up having to give away free copies of Dragon Quest IXwith subscriptions to Nintendo Power.

the circle is complete

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