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What can we do to save PC gaming?


LewieP
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I have honestly never had problems with any game on PC (except for Stalker, being so terribly unoptimised and buggy, which breaks my heart as I always lose the will to persevere about halfway through). Even Starforce/Securom never gave me trouble.

So horror stories like that just puzzle me.

I also never had problems with Steam, even when updating HL2 over a 56k connection with it.

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I have honestly never had problems with any game on PC (except for Stalker, being so terribly unoptimised and buggy, which breaks my heart as I always lose the will to persevere about halfway through). Even Starforce/Securom never gave me trouble.

So horror stories like that just puzzle me.

I also never had problems with Steam, even when updating HL2 over a 56k connection with it.

Same here. I didn't have any of the stuttering problems that plagued many HL2 gamers. Starforce has never given me a problem either.

The Frontlines problem is an isolated incident but it has really annoyed me because it seems like something that didn't get finished properly or wasn't tested.

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I'm sick of PC gaming now. I bought the PC version of Frontlines: Fuel of War because it was £20 for the nice steelbook version rather than £40 for the standard 360 version. All good so far.

So, I install it and go to play it, only to be greeted by a SecuROM error saying I had emulation software that conflicted with Frontlines. I use no such thing so I was puzzled and pissed off.

I had to download a patch AND a hotfix to fix this issue. Because I don't use the software the error mentioned (Alcohol 120%,) I can only assume that everyone with the PC version will have this error. At the time, the extra £20 for the 360 version was looking lie money that would've been well spent.

I think I am officially done with PC gaming.

I'm afraid that didnt actually happen, i brought this up earlier and was told i was wrong and that it would only have happened in the DOS days ^_^

Anyhoo i'm in a charitable mood this evening so i have ordered an ambulance for pc gaming and checked and there is a bed avaliable. NHS mind so PC Gaming may be about to get MRSA :)

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I'm afraid that didnt actually happen, i brought this up earlier and was told i was wrong and that it would only have happened in the DOS days :)

Anyhoo i'm in a charitable mood this evening so i have ordered an ambulance for pc gaming and checked and there is a bed avaliable. NHS mind so PC Gaming may be about to get MRSA :(

If Mac owners weren't so lame there'd be more games for it beyond Warcraft. ^_^

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PC gaming is a bit in the doldrums because the difference, graphically, between the pc and consoles is negligible at best.. for the moment.

Intel are about to enter the gaming market big time, they've been spunking some major cash on some major talent.. things will move away from the current way of doing graphics, creating , hopefully , another shift as we saw with the move to 3d.

That's if peopel are prepared to re do games from the ground up using ray tracing.

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I'm sick of PC gaming now. I bought the PC version of Frontlines: Fuel of War because it was £20 for the nice steelbook version rather than £40 for the standard 360 version. All good so far.

So, I install it and go to play it, only to be greeted by a SecuROM error saying I had emulation software that conflicted with Frontlines. I use no such thing so I was puzzled and pissed off.

I had to download a patch AND a hotfix to fix this issue. Because I don't use the software the error mentioned (Alcohol 120%,) I can only assume that everyone with the PC version will have this error. At the time, the extra £20 for the 360 version was looking lie money that would've been well spent.

I think I am officially done with PC gaming.

Crazy shit... and what if you were using Alcohol 120% for totally legit reasons; I used to use it all the time at work for working with ISOs; not for hacking games.

I'm a bit behind the times on PC gaming, does this shit happen a lot? Seems a stupidly broad-brush approach.

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People still use shit like Securom? That's appalling.

Nowt wrong with Securom. (Well unless devs 'do a Bioshock' and try to apply every restriction available without reading the docs.)

But all the disc-based CP systems will probably die out soon if customers are willing to use online activation.

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Well that is the figure the PGA choose to highlight, not unit sales figures.

US 2007 retail unit sales:

PC: 36.4 million

Consoles: 153.9 million

Portables: 77.5 million

So 36.4 million versus 231.4 million console games sold at retail in 2007 in the US. the PGA figures seem a tad massaged to paint a possibly over-optimistic picture of the true state of the commercial success of PC gaming.

If PC games were making as much money for publishers/developers as console games, then they wouldn't feel the need to port formally exclusively PC game series to console.

So basically those numbers ignore all the online content delivery systems then such as Steam.

AMAZE!

Lets even things out and discount all console sales from high street shops.

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It's not that obvious, but look at it this way. Right now, in every thread in Discussion and OT (and even scarier, ATF) people are posting the equivalent of the nonsense witnessed in here, but on any other topic you can think of. At least when it's a PC thread, you, MK, and I show up to dispense enlightenment. Who takes care of all the other threads?

The problem is when you crazy trio go batshit insane and claim the PC to be the holy grail of innovation. Just because the PC gaming is doomed posse go overboard doesn't mean you guys have to as well. 2 insanes don't make a sane.

Stories like that just make me wonder why I don't start my own PC devco that makes great games and doesn't fuck people about.

People still use shit like Securom? That's appalling.

Stardock really are leading the way here. Treating the customer with respect and shock horror, making a profit. You'd have thought the bigger publishers would have caught on by now. Perhaps sometime in the near future they will. I haven't had any issues at all with copy protection in a long time but then I buy everything through Steam.

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The problem is when you crazy trio go batshit insane and claim the PC to be the holy grail of innovation. Just because the PC gaming is doomed posse go overboard doesn't mean you guys have to as well. 2 insanes don't make a sane.

Oh, I still claim the PC is the holy grain of innovation. You'll never convince me otherwise, and you'll never convince anyone that it makes me mental.

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Oh, I still claim the PC is the holy grain of innovation. You'll never convince me otherwise, and you'll never convince anyone that it makes me mental.

Except for sane people.

Innovation would occur on the PC if consoles died, innovation would occur on the consoles if the PC died. It's not exclusive to one platform or the other. You giant fruit bat, you lot are almost as entertaining as Escape in the GTA thread.

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Before XNA there was basically no way for innovation to be fostered on a console except by people already creatively high up in a first-party developer.

The PC has never had any such barrier to entry. Do you like apples?

So only indie developers can be innovative? No I prefer oranges.

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Before XNA there was basically no way for innovation to be fostered on a console except by people already creatively high up in a first-party developer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_Yaroze

Devil Dice started on one of those.

See also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Develo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WonderWitch

The hard part is not getting the tools, but the people and the time.

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The Net Yaroze (ネットやろうぜ, netto yarōze?, IPA: [netto jɑɺ̠ooze]) is a development kit for the PlayStation video game console. It was a promotion by Sony Computer Entertainment to computer programming hobbyists in 1997. Yarōze means "Let's do it!".

For about $750 USD

And then I stopped reading. How much?

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And then I stopped reading. How much?

$750 is peanuts compared with the value of the time you're going to need to invest to get something halfway decent. I might add XNA targetting a 360 requires a subscription, so you can't really regard that as "free" either.

Also, nobody gives a shit about the PC Engine or Wonderswan. Sorry to be abrasive but it's true.

Because it completely destroyed your attempt at a point? Both those machines were very significant in the far east.

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You know better than that. Of course companies with more to lose gamble less.

Like oh say Ubisoft with Tom Clancy's Endwar? The biggest innovation in RTS games for a long time and it's developed for the consoles by a big company. Oh no!

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Like oh say Ubisoft with Tom Clancy's Endwar? The biggest innovation in RTS games for a long time and it's developed for the consoles by a big company. Oh no!

Or Sony with Bluray.

Or Toshiba with HD-DVD.

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You know better than that. Of course companies with more to lose gamble less.

I think they try to innovate more than they're given credit for, and that's where a decent proportion of bad games come from. The truly rich companies (like Nintendo) will can a game if it turns out atrocious, whereas many will release it to hope to reduce net losses.

Assassin's Creed and Army of Two I think sincerely started out as the token innovative projects at their respective companies, but just didn't quite work out. See also Boogie.

The indie scene is at least as guilty as the commercial world for plagiarism of ideas, and the commercially successful parts of the PC "casual" scene is about the worst around for this particular habit.

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Beertiger, ambassador of sanity. It's not the extremism of the views that the 'pro-PC' people in this thread are taking issue with, it's the outright ignorance.

...

Innovation can come from anywhere, I agree with that. The presence of the PC as a major games platform allows for certain kinds of innovation that otherwise might never happen (currently, this includes things like Dwarf Fortress and Garry's Mod), and find an audience directly without having to convince publishers, retail and press first.

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Doom could be played 4 player online with that BBS system they setup which emulated an IPX network, too.

DWANGO?

Counter Strike has always had voice chat... :)

You couldn't have a conversation via CS's voice chat; it was optimised for short, sharp commands - plus the game wasn't suited to a laid back style of play, whereas on Live you could have both hardcore and laid back games. Your enemies went to the ground muted, unlike in Mechassault, where they blew up yelling and cursing your name.

No doubt the PC was much more powerful for displaying 3D graphics, but Star Fox was about the closest you could get, and it could certainly handle more geometry than your screen shot implies. Have a look at some X-Wing pics if you believe it's more impressive. I think you'll be surprised just how much it's dated too.

FOBT should add that when you look at X-Wing, make sure you look at the original floppy disc version. It was far more simplistic.

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Like oh say Ubisoft with Tom Clancy's Endwar? The biggest innovation in RTS games for a long time and it's developed for the consoles by a big company. Oh no!

Evil Avatar sez

Ever hear of SAGA? How about Dallan Christensen? No? You should have, he was the lead programmer for the highly successful Star Craft expansion - Brood War.

SAGA is the latest project from Dallan, and it's a highly ambitious one. SAGA is a MMORTS from Silverlode Interactive. The game features a large persistant world where players can control massive armies. There are numerous elements popularized by more traditional MMOs like guils, raiding, looting, gear upgrades and even party questing.

I'll take your small-beans voice commands (which were shit in Rainbow Six and will always be shit) and raise you the MMORTS. Out now.

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Isn't that just where RTS titles have been heading, sounds like taking the persistent online mode of Universe at War to the next level. I think completely revolutionising the control system for an RTS is a far bigger thing. After all it's what has kept that genre a poor copy of a great thing on the consoles for ages. Both ideas sound like they'll be moving the genre on in different ways.

Also everything I've read on heard on podcasts has been about how wonderful the voice command system is in EndWar.

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Come on Beertiger - MMOs and other genres merging is quite innovative, and can't be dismissed as just where things have been headed. I'd say total voice control (if it works) and MMORTS are about as innovative as each other! :rolleyes:

This thread is a pretty interesting read, so I shall refrain from properly entering the debate.

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Come on Beertiger - MMOs and other genres merging is quite innovative, and can't be dismissed as just where things have been headed. I'd say total voice control (if it works) and MMORTS are about as innovative as each other! :rolleyes:

That was kind of what I said in my penultimate sentence. Just like popsimax is wary of voice commands because they've not been very well implemented so far, I am equally wary of MMO cross breeds. Will this SAGA be stuck in Huxley hell? Besides I think Relic making the combat smaller and more personal was a bigger step forward for the genre. Seeing your men scamper across the terrain and use cover sensibly in Company of Heroes had a far greater impact than the large scale conflicts of Supreme Commander, which leave you feeling disconnected from the war.

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That was kind of what I said in my penultimate sentence. Just like popsimax is wary of voice commands because they've not been very well implemented so far, I am equally wary of MMO cross breeds. Will this SAGA be stuck in Huxley hell? Besides I think Relic making the combat smaller and more personal was a bigger step forward for the genre. Seeing your men scamper across the terrain and use cover sensibly in Company of Heroes had a far greater impact than the large scale conflicts of Supreme Commander, which leave you feeling disconnected from the war.

True. I love CoH and never tried SupCom because it just looked dull. Did you hear about that CoH-MMO being developed by Relic for the Chinese market? No idea how that will turn out or if it will make it here, but it sounds interesting to me. Things like that are moving forward, while console RTSes are still grappling with the controls and 10-year-old gameplay. However as you mentioned, EndWar could totally avoid that whole problem and free things up technology-wise.

It's a bit of a shame when I hear about things like TrackIR which are completely ignored by the general market but still do well as pure experimentation. No doubt Nintendo will copy it in a few years and everyone will love it :rolleyes:

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That was kind of what I said in my penultimate sentence. Just like popsimax is wary of voice commands because they've not been very well implemented so far, I am equally wary of MMO cross breeds. Will this SAGA be stuck in Huxley hell? Besides I think Relic making the combat smaller and more personal was a bigger step forward for the genre. Seeing your men scamper across the terrain and use cover sensibly in Company of Heroes had a far greater impact than the large scale conflicts of Supreme Commander, which leave you feeling disconnected from the war.

I'm downloading a review client* of Saga right now. So, dev hell isn't really an option.

*I have a kind of interest in this thread - I work for PC Gamer magazine.

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True. I love CoH and never tried SupCom because it just looked dull. Did you hear about that CoH-MMO being developed by Relic for the Chinese market? No idea how that will turn out or if it will make it here, but it sounds interesting to me. Things like that are moving forward, while console RTSes are still grappling with the controls and 10-year-old gameplay. However as you mentioned, EndWar could totally avoid that whole problem and free things up technology-wise.

It's a bit of a shame when I hear about things like TrackIR which are completely ignored by the general market but still do well as pure experimentation. No doubt Nintendo will copy it in a few years and everyone will love it :rolleyes:

A CoH MMO! Now that would definitely be something I would love to try. Although isn't it kind of hard to have a realistic WWII game where the outcome isn't decided? I'd have thought Dawn of War would have made a better candidate for the RTS-MMO genre.

As for TrackIR, I'm not sure it's something that Nintendo would copy. Motion controls work fine because you can have fun in large groups without looking too much of a tool. Attachin something to your head is in the realm of the ubernerd and as such I'd expect to see it on a Microsoft console before a Nintendo machine.

I'm downloading a review client* of Saga right now. So, dev hell isn't really an option.

*I have a kind of interest in this thread - I work for PC Gamer magazine.

Do you know if there's a free trial like traditional MMORPGs? I was slightly disappointed to visit the site and see it's bloody hobbits again.

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