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What can we do to save PC gaming?


LewieP
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True. I love CoH and never tried SupCom because it just looked dull.

I went so far as to try Supreme Commander and was bored to tears by it. I loved Total Annihilation back in the day, too, but SupCom was just so soulless and horrible.

CoH is the total opposite of soulless. From the way your units move and react to the voice prompts (and ambient conversations which I've only heard once or twice because they go on really quietly at ground level) the game drips atmosphere. And going back to any other RTS without the cover system for infantry feels horribly primitive. Even Relic's previous games like Dawn of War. That's the real advance right there.

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A CoH MMO! Now that would definitely be something I would love to try. Although isn't it kind of hard to have a realistic WWII game where the outcome isn't decided? I'd have thought Dawn of War would have made a better candidate for the RTS-MMO genre.

To be honest I just heard a quick thing from the Relic guy on one of the newer GFW Radios, so don't know the exact details. Maybe it has some Total War-style campaign map or something. At least with Relic making it there should be some quality. DoW would work too but I'm not sure how popular that is in China compared to (fictional) WWII.

As for TrackIR, I'm not sure it's something that Nintendo would copy. Motion controls work fine because you can have fun in large groups without looking too much of a tool. Attachin something to your head is in the realm of the ubernerd and as such I'd expect to see it on a Microsoft console before a Nintendo machine.

Yeah that's true. There's other things too, like that mouse thing you hold and it simulates the weight of objects you hold in-game (I think?), e.g. you catch a ball and it makes you feel like you're holding the object in your hand. Maybe that sounds stupid! But that seems like people really trying new things to me, and (even though I can't afford a new PC atm) that's why I like the platform.

I went so far as to try Supreme Commander and was bored to tears by it. I loved Total Annihilation back in the day, too, but SupCom was just so soulless and horrible.

CoH is the total opposite of soulless. From the way your units move and react to the voice prompts (and ambient conversations which I've only heard once or twice because they go on really quietly at ground level) the game drips atmosphere. And going back to any other RTS without the cover system for infantry feels horribly primitive. Even Relic's previous games like Dawn of War. That's the real advance right there.

o/*\o

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Yep, I didn't like the sound of being able to set up huge build orders of units and buildings at the start of the game, then just letting your robots carry them out while you sat there waiting to see if you won. There was meant to be unpredictable stuff but it sounded like a tank-rush game overall. CoH is the opposite - nothing is predictable and the tables can turn all the time. Micro-ing a unit right can overturn a whole attack, but also no unit is too overpowered to win an entire game from the start. When you're on the backfoot there's always a chance to claw it back. Also the atmosphere is great.

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I'll say right now that CoH didn't turn out the way I was expecting - I didn't know it would have any base building (even though that aspect is minimal in the finished game), and I was under the impression it would be more a tactical strategy with fixed forces or something.

However, as much as I'd have loved such a game, I really don't think I'd still be playing that game a year and a half on from release, like I am with CoH. Oh, and that would have precluded Opposing Fronts' British and their mobile HQ command trucks, so fuck that hippy shit.

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1. This is bullshit, there's no jaggies on my 360.

3. Having to pay for rubbish things on the 360 isn't really a useful point. I could make something on the PC that's rubbish and ask you to pay for it too.

4. You mean alt-tabbing which doesn't even work half the time on PC games? I far prefer having MSN on the 360 Dashboard, to be honest.

6. You would only want to do this if you were playing a shit MMO anyway.

I ignored the other points as they were correct. The key here is making sure your side's argument is consistent with reality. :rolleyes:

I don't really know what you mean about "side's" as I have both a 360 and a PC and so can make a balanced view. I dont think you can deny jaggies on the 360 particularly in games with higher levels of detail where compromises have to be made (Battlefield 2 is a good example of jaggies even through component). Compare pretty much any FPS on the 360 and PC and the PC will come out on top for graphics thats just a fact, although I await the 360 version of Crysis...

As for mods, look at all the free modifications created by fans for half-life and half-life 2, Quake etc, would those be free on live?

True they both have their strengths but I still believe if you put in a bit of effot with PC's the gaming experience and community is better.

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So basically those numbers ignore all the online content delivery systems then such as Steam.

AMAZE!

Lets even things out and discount all console sales from high street shops.

Errr, why don't you read the previous posts about the PGA statistics before you go trying to say the numbers are useless. Unless you really believe Steam, etc are selling more PC games than retail does in the US.

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PC gaming is a bit in the doldrums because the difference, graphically, between the pc and consoles is negligible at best.. for the moment.

Intel are about to enter the gaming market big time, they've been spunking some major cash on some major talent.. things will move away from the current way of doing graphics, creating , hopefully , another shift as we saw with the move to 3d.

Relying on Intel to save the PC gaming market? :rolleyes:

Past evidence would put the blame for the majority of PCs sold not being suitable for playing games at Intel's door.

They're even responsible for gimping the possibility of a decent base level performance with Vista as Microsoft were forced to lower specs to allow Intel's onboard graphics to be compliant with Vista.

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Errr, why don't you read the previous posts about the PGA statistics before you go trying to say the numbers are useless. Unless you really believe Steam, etc are selling more PC games than retail does in the US.

Yes I do think online sales count for more than retail in PC land. What about the HUGE amount of pay per play/item stuff going on in the far east? What about all the small independent software that is available via online distribution only?

Your PGA figures gives us retail only for the US, which in the grand scale of things is peanuts in PC land. Even then you ignore the numbers and make shit up.

What other shite would you like to spout now?

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Yes I do think online sales count for more than retail in PC land. What about the HUGE amount of pay per play/item stuff going on in the far east? What about all the small independent software that is available via online distribution only?

Your PGA figures gives us retail only for the US, which in the grand scale of things is peanuts in PC land. Even then you ignore the numbers and make shit up.

What other shite would you like to spout now?

A bit touchy about the state of the commercial PC gaming scene, eh?

The PGA present some figures to say PC gaming is doing great commercially (even in the US), I used some publically available data which showed they were being a tad optimistic in the way they were presenting things, how is that "making shit up" as you call it?

The CEO of Stardock was on Game Theory a while ago, even he said Retail was responsible for the majority of sales for Stardock's games, though online gave them more profit (as they obviously cut out the middle-men).

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A bit touchy about the state of the commercial PC gaming scene, eh?

No, just trying to defend a hobby against fools spouting ignorant shite. Even when shown numbers stating theat PC retail is responsible for 24% of all gaming software revenue you try to spin it as a bad thing or toss out some some loltastic nonsense about them ignoring XBL/PSN. Even EA's accounts for the last financial year show the PC was responsible for more revenue than the 360. Or are they making it up, or spinning things in the PC's favour?

Idiots on here seem to think that just because PC titles do not fill up the top 10 each week that the format must be dying, yet when you actually bother to look a bit deeper you will find that it is far from the truth.

This entire thread is full of crap about how the PC is dying, or how consoles are amazing beasts responsible for every and all innovative moment in gaming history.

lol360.jpg

Would that happen to be the PC generating more revenue for EA in 2007 than the 360..

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$750 is peanuts compared with the value of the time you're going to need to invest to get something halfway decent. I might add XNA targetting a 360 requires a subscription, so you can't really regard that as "free" either.

Because it completely destroyed your attempt at a point? Both those machines were very significant in the far east.

XNA is £60, my point is strong as an ox, and you're deluded.

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I'll say right now that CoH didn't turn out the way I was expecting - I didn't know it would have any base building (even though that aspect is minimal in the finished game), and I was under the impression it would be more a tactical strategy with fixed forces or something.

However, as much as I'd have loved such a game, I really don't think I'd still be playing that game a year and a half on from release, like I am with CoH. Oh, and that would have precluded Opposing Fronts' British and their mobile HQ command trucks, so fuck that hippy shit.

The Brits are amazing in that game. Have you tried the equally amazing World in Conflict? It gets rid of bases all together.

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No, just trying to defend a hobby against fools spouting ignorant shite. Even when shown numbers stating theat PC retail is responsible for 24% of all gaming software revenue you try to spin it as a bad thing or toss out some some loltastic nonsense about them ignoring XBL/PSN. Even EA's accounts for the last financial year show the PC was responsible for more revenue than the 360. Or are they making it up, or spinning things in the PC's favour?

The PGA said it was 30%, I looked into it and had to conclude they are wrong based on what public data exists. The only people doing any spinning are the PGA, I'm just trying to judge the picture as accurately as possible. They lumped in every single possible revenue stream for PC gaming to get to their figure of $2.76 Billion as retail only comes to $911 million, while I just used NPD figures for console retail sales only to compare against it (as revenue from XBL/PSN/VC are not available). Of course I must be making it all up to make the PC look bad :rolleyes:

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certain types of games are struggling on the PC and the reason is that they are too demanding on spec. FPS in particular are better value for money on a console now. However, nothing - NOTHING on a console comes anywhere near the power of WoW or the Sims on the PC. Also - gaming on the PC will change an integrate more into social networking habits as well. Look at the popularity of games like Scrabulous on Facebook. Once they manage to mix the Sims with social networking and MMORPG - then that game will destroy everything in its path.

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I have posted real facts and figures from EA's year end financial results showing the PC is responsible for more revenue than the 360. Is that wrong, are EA in league with the PCGA/Satan/Osama. Or does it show that the PC is still an incredibly strong platform that can more than throw it weight around with the console crowd. No matter what closed minded idiots would have us believe.

So to sum up, the PC is responsible for more revenue than either the PS3 or 360 for the largest entertainment software publishing company on the planet.

PC gaming Doomed?

Not at all.

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I preferred it when we were talking about Starfox and Doom :(

Me too, but you have to slap the PC ARE DOOMED! muppets around every so often before going back to some of the greatest moments in gaming history.

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The Brits are amazing in that game. Have you tried the equally amazing World in Conflict? It gets rid of bases all together.

I played the demo of World in Conflict but I didn't find it as arresting (although it was definitely fun). Probably due to the less focused scale and the fact that it may not have bases but your units are entirely expendable. It's not the case as in Company of Heroes where a single squad can use its special abilities and turn the tide. And I didn't end up rooting for individual squads/squad members, hailing them as heroes and wanting to keep them alive. The units in WiC felt pretty characterless (although the cutscenes in the singleplayer campaign missions were far better than those in Company of Heroes, whose singleplayer campaign is basically a Highlights edition of Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan).

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You couldn't have a conversation via CS's voice chat; it was optimised for short, sharp commands - plus the game wasn't suited to a laid back style of play

WHAT?!

Did you ever actually play CS? It was fucking perfect for a laid back style of play! I had plenty of laughs just fucking about chatting with friends on servers when you were dead, and still do. The whole wait-for-respawns approach means you spend time just chatting shit with friends while waiting for the round to end!

Short, sharp commands? You can talk just like any Xbox Live game, with a microphone... :(

Again, have you actually played CS?

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I think most of us here use a PC more than we use a console.

Damn right. Although I gave up following the big PC games years ago it's still my most played system as I'm flicking between Scrabulous and Desktop Tower Defence all day at work. When they get boring I'll just play any one of another billion fun, free games. Then there's the time I waste on this forum. I even do some work on my PC sometimes too.

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WHAT?!

Did you ever actually play CS? It was fucking perfect for a laid back style of play! I had plenty of laughs just fucking about chatting with friends on servers when you were dead, and still do. The whole wait-for-respawns approach means you spend time just chatting shit with friends while waiting for the round to end!

Short, sharp commands? You can talk just like any Xbox Live game, with a microphone... :(

Again, have you actually played CS?

Most servers definitely weren't suitable for chatting and taking it easy, you had to have a server with Alltalk enabled for that, and you usually then had people joining, flaming and leaving because they didn't expect their teammates to be fucking about so much.

Laid back CS was pretty much dependent on either knowing personally everyone who played (such as on a campus university server when you don't have outside server access) or on having a Ventrilo/Teamspeak server that everyone can chat on continuously while dropping in and out of games whenever they like (something consoles can't do).

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Most servers definitely weren't suitable for chatting and taking it easy, you had to have a server with Alltalk enabled for that, and you usually then had people joining, flaming and leaving because they didn't expect their teammates to be fucking about so much.

Laid back CS was pretty much dependent on either knowing personally everyone who played (such as on a campus university server when you don't have outside server access) or on having a Ventrilo/Teamspeak server that everyone can chat on continuously while dropping in and out of games whenever they like (something consoles can't do).

Or just finding a server you like, playing on it fairly frequently with friends, and getting to know the people on the server. Community-based servers are great for this. So are custom-map servers. Alltalk isn't really necessary at all either, as long as the server isn't a nazi about team selection.

Although admittedly by the end one of us had forked out on a Ventrilo server, but yeah, the community on the server was still pretty active.

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I'm not a PC gamer, never have been, i've always prefered consoles (and still do), but having bought a new PC last month for work, i thought i'd try some games on the system.

Now it's not a bad set-up (2.4 Quad Core CPU, 3gb RAM, 8800GT Video Card) and the games i tried ran great, but when i installed Cysis eveything had to be set at medium in terms of options, which annoyed me as the developers designed the game for all options to be set a full (otherwise they wouldn't have put them in there), hence your running the game the way it should be, but i couldn't because of my setup. As for the Crysis game, IMO it's just another run of the mill FPS...nothing special.

PC gaming still leaves me cold, as it did when i played the first Doom on a 486 PC.

So, what can we do to save PC gaming? Well, nothing...let it disappear up it's own arse i say because it wouldn't be missed for a second!

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