What can we do to save PC gaming?

[RubberJohnny]

Except for all the, uh, competition

Which there was none of on consoles this year, right?

You just said that piracy isn't a big enough incentive to organise a digital distribution framework, or to use someone else's. I never said it wasn't, and I'd appreciate it if you'd not tell lies.

I never said they couldn't use someone elses, but that would mean they wouldn't have the same business model, which was my original point; they'd be service users rather than service providers.

EDIT: Christ.

[Gwynster]

Which there was none of on consoles this year, right?

Not in multiplayer urban warfare on the 360, no.

[RubberJohnny]

Not in multiplayer urban warfare on the 360, no.

So what PC games in this genre am I missing that didn't also release on 360?

[Stanley]

No idea why people think it's a good example for arguing that everyone needs a £2k PC in order to keep up to date nowadays. Maybe because they don't play PC games and are just typing without thinking?

Now for someone accusing me of saying misleading things, I think that's totally misleading. No one's saying you need to spend that amount, but the point is that you need to spend considerably more than £200.

[Rudi von Starnberg]

For £200, you can get a PC that'll do all your work stuff nicely. For another £200-300, you'll get a gaming PC.

Most people pay to get a 'work' PC anyway. The extra money isn't that much on top of it.

[TehStu]

but the point is that you need to spend considerably more than £200.

You're clinging to that £200 figure, so we'll exclude the price of a monitor from the uber PC. The PC version is going to have better load times too, as your Core 360 doesn't have a hdd. My PC beats that Assassin's Creed spec, I'm guessing it's worth £400-500 at the moment.

Mega PC gaming costs more than a console, but you don't need to sell a kidney.

[Gwynster]

So what PC games in this genre am I missing that didn't also release on 360?

Hmm, looks like I made a boo-boo. It's more to do with team gameplay than urban combat.

Quake wars, 32-player TF2, Red Orchestra, UT3, Everything Source, and all the other stuff that people have been playing for ages like BF2 and shit.

What I'm saying is that on the PC you play a game, get familiar with it, find a server you like, and keep playing it. On the 360, you play what all your friends play.

[Gwynster]

Now for someone accusing me of saying misleading things, I think that's totally misleading. No one's saying you need to spend that amount, but the point is that you need to spend considerably more than £200.

The point is, no you don't.

[RubberJohnny]

So, uh, just Quake Wars then, which sold about fuck all. I'm sure that's why the PC sales of CoD4, or every title were so much lower than the console versions.

[TehStu]

Can we just assume the console version of cross platform games will sell more and have done with it?

[Gwynster]

I think I've actually said all the truth needed in this thread. PCs are great, only the misguided and ignorant think otherwise, and ultimately I own both PC and console anyway and don't find any place they overlap functionally.

All we need to work out is where such garbage and misinformation comes from. What's the agenda here? Why must PCs be dying all the time? They've been dying since 5 years ago, why hasn't it happened?

[Rudi von Starnberg]

5 years ago?

1997 at least.

[Gwynster]

So, uh, just Quake Wars then, which sold about fuck all. I'm sure that's why the PC sales of CoD4, or every title were so much lower than the console versions.

Sold fuck all because of TF2, which nobody plays on 360. Thanks for playing, though.

[Stanley]

My PC beats that Assassin's Creed spec, I'm guessing it's worth £400-500 at the moment.

Minimum or recommended?

[Rudi von Starnberg]

Minimum or recommended?

You really are a broken record, aren't you?

Not even a good record. We're talking Jordan and Peter Andre on jerky infinite loop here.

[Stanley]

You really are a broken record, aren't you?

Not even a good record. We're talking Jordan and Peter Andre on jerky infinite loop here.

Aren't we supposed to be discussing why PC development has become less of a focus for more and more devlopers, who are switching their attention to consoles? I'm just trying to discuss the reasons why, sorry if it annoys you.

[TehStu]

1997 at least.

Yeah. I certainly remember this discussion with my friends in school (so we're talking 1990/91 ish), lamenting my 486 and being delighted with their MD/SNESs.

Minimum or recommended?

I don't know what the recommended spec is to compare. Dig it up and I'll see what I can do, but it's better than the minimum spec by a margin. For the DX9 version, granted.

I think we should end clinging to Assassin Creed's high specification though. It's not really representative of what you need to bang out good looking PC games, especially at 720p resolution if you've got a HDTV, which takes less effort than if you ran your McAverage desktop res of 1280x1024.

[Stanley]

The only reason I gave AC as an example is because it's a recent console game, and something of a techical showcase. The recommended spec is in the link I gave earlier.

[Stanley]

dp.

[Stanley]

ddp.

[TehStu]

The only reason I gave AC as an example is because it's a recent console game, and something of a techical showcase. The recommended spec is in the link I gave earlier.

I think I must have misread it then, I'm sure the article quoted it as the minimum spec. Anyway, I found it on wiki, which I think tells a more accurate picture. The minimum requirements on the XP version aren't quite as high.

It also hints at the recommended. Again, something mine trumps, weighing in at twice the price of a premium 360 (an estimate of what mine's worth now, which includes the 19" lcd).

[mushashi]

PC gaming in the west has been on a downward slope since the 90s. Now that consoles can do FPS competently, it just makes the PC less relevant as a mainstream gaming platform than ever for most genres.

The situation in the Asian markets is probably the only really viable way to make big bucks out of PC based gaming, online microtransaction based games played by millions of ordinary people. The PC has some nice positives compared to (HD) consoles, they have lower development costs, no licensing fees or barriers to entry and a potentially much greater market to sell to, you just need a product with wide-appeal.

[Gwynster]

PC gaming in the west has been on a downward slope since the 90s. Now that consoles can do FPS competently

You mean about 10 years ago, surely?

[mushashi]

You mean about 10 years ago, surely?

FPS games were widely recognised as being competent on consoles 10 years ago? I suppose there were the 2 Rare-developed games, but they hardly ushered in the demise of PC FPS superiority like the Microsoft consoles have.

[Beertiger]

No, actually, it's like comparing a 386 PC to a $15k arcade machine.

Jesusface, which had the better graphics? That's what people pushed to strive towards in their games. It set the bar, doesn't matter what it cost, those were the best.

Fuck me PC owners are so damn touchy about their little hobby.

[daveodeth]

FPS games were widely recognised as being competent on consoles 10 years ago? I suppose there were the 2 Rare-developed games, but they hardly ushered in the demise of PC FPS superiority like the Microsoft consoles have.

man what's that smell.

where is this supposed demise of PC fps games.

[The-G]

FPS games were widely recognised as being competent on consoles 10 years ago? I suppose there were the 2 Rare-developed games, but they hardly ushered in the demise of PC FPS superiority like the Microsoft consoles have.

So other than CoD4 and Vegas, what are these great microsoft FPS games you speak of?

[TehStu]

Fuck me PC owners are so damn touchy about their little hobby.

In fairness, there's poo-faced people on either "side". Let's not forget what happens when those who aren't keen on PCs fight amongst themselves.

Anyway, the point's already been raised, Doom was impressive for different reasons. If we're talking raw 3D power as the criteria for attainment, I don't think it was that long after Daytona that PCs were starting to knock out silly o'clock polygons.

[MK-1601]

Not at all, this is about technical innovation and Doom was given as an example of having 3D graphics compared to the 2D we were playing with on consoles. Joyrex-J9 even conceded that point, give it up. This could fast turn into another "Motorstorm and Killzone vids are the real!" for you. Keep claiming that Doom was technically ahead of stuff like Daytona and you'll be carted off into the funny farm.

Doom was by no means the state of the art of 3D graphics when it came out, no one would dispute that.

But it was Doom that showed PC and console developers that making fast 3D action games wasn't the preserve of coinop developers with thousands of pounds worth of custom hardware at their disposal.

It's not misleading at all. If you want to play high end games like Gears, Assassin's Creed, or Crysis, it's a lot more expensive than buying a £200 console.

Man, I wish I knew where you could buy this mythical console that comes in at under 200 UKP factoring in hidden costs.

Those developers all have business models different from the majority of the industry, business models that aren't easy or particularly desirable to adopt, and are pretty impossible to use in any form of PC+console combination.

Also, there isn't a rolleyes large enough for 'putting a stop to piracy entirely', the music industry are kicking themselves for not seeing such a simple answer.

Digital distribution is a piece of piss to adopt these days. It doesn't limit your options for putting out games on other formats either, not sure what you mean there. You're right about steamworks though - it'll maybe reduce casual piracy a bit, but even steam games get cracked.

iD, Epic, Infinity Ward, Bioware, Lionhead, Irrational, Monolith all have moved from being PC centric to being console focused, with PC ports coming after the fact.

Nope. Developing concurrently on multiple platforms is not what you describe. The only games of that lot that have come to PC later are games published by MGS.

I imagine their aren't many developers or publishers willing to set up their own direct-download infrastructure, with all the associated costs, just to avoid people stealing their games. Judging by the fact there is just one - Steam.

Which is why most are using Steam. EA (and maybe a couple of others?) have their own. Protecting their livelihoods kind of justifies the effort.

Now that consoles can do FPS competently

Yeah, but there aren't that many out on the Wii yet though.

[Stanley]

Man, I wish I knew where you could buy this mythical console that comes in at under 200 UKP factoring in hidden costs.

For under £200. Here you go.

Or perhaps you'd like one with a few games, here you are