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Bruce Everiss Vs Stuart Campbell

Swainy

By Swainy,
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choddo

choddo

Posted
Posted
Yep, you're right - probably a lot of people trying it who wouldn't ordinarily have bothered. Though there's still bound to be quite a few of those who would have risked their forty quid on it were it not 'out there'. I suppose we're then getting into the tipping point regarding game prices, then - but that's for another thread, clearly.

The thing is (and I know this is a very old and very tired argument so feel guilty indulging myself) ... why should you have to risk £40? In which other sector do you get to punt up such a quantity of cash in the hope that the product lives up to the hype?

And Mario Kart doesn't seem to have suffered from being a very popular torrent. Sold by the ton. How odd.

Everiss really does seem to disconnect quality of product from commercial success. Now... while marketing can often sell more copies of a game than it deserves, gaming punters are a shrewd and well informed bunch and you can't fool them for long.

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Fugitive

Fugitive

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To get the full measure of Mr Everiss, I believe one only has to read his 'fanboy' blog. Of course 'fanboys' can be irritatingly tiresome as well as being a wholly legitimate target, but I was left with a nasty taste in the mouth on witnessing the supercilious manner in which he takes great pleasure in laughing up his sleeve at those who are quite clearly vastly inferior to Bruce Everiss.

His invective filled tirade is simply the flipside, or bedfellow, of the same fanboyism style coin that leads to nauseating displays of superiority as displayed by various advocates over a whole range of disparate causes and beliefs.

Watch out for that petard there Bruce, you wouldn't want to get caught up in tha...... Oops! Too late.

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MK-1601

MK-1601

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To get the full measure of Mr Everiss, I believe one only has to read his 'fanboy' blog. Of course 'fanboys' can be irritatingly tiresome as well as being a wholly legitimate target, but I was left with a nasty taste in the mouth on witnessing the supercilious manner in which he takes great pleasure in laughing up his sleeve at those who are quite clearly vastly inferior to Bruce Everiss.

His invective filled tirade is simply the flipside, or bedfellow, of the same fanboyism style coin that leads to nauseating displays of superiority as displayed by various advocates over a whole range of disparate causes and beliefs.

Watch out for that petard there Bruce, you wouldn't want to get caught up in tha...... Oops! Too late.

Do you intentionally write like that?

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Gorf King

Gorf King

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Posted
To get the full measure of Mr Everiss, I believe one only has to read his 'fanboy' blog. Of course 'fanboys' can be irritatingly tiresome as well as being a wholly legitimate target, but I was left with a nasty taste in the mouth on witnessing the supercilious manner in which he takes great pleasure in laughing up his sleeve at those who are quite clearly vastly inferior to Bruce Everiss.

His invective filled tirade is simply the flipside, or bedfellow, of the same fanboyism style coin that leads to nauseating displays of superiority as displayed by various advocates over a whole range of disparate causes and beliefs.

Watch out for that petard there Bruce, you wouldn't want to get caught up in tha...... Oops! Too late.

This thing about 'fanboys'?

I read the 'piracy killed my company' debate and thought his arguments weren't very credible or founded in fact, and was ready to dismiss him as just being a bit dim; but then I had the misfortune to read that unpleasant piece. It essentially mocks juveniles for being, well, juvenile, yet goes on to acknowledge they (THE FANBOYS!!) shouldn't be mocked too much as they "spend every penny they can on this industry" and so shouldn't "be mocked too much" - in other words, they pay his wages. That's after saying they appear ridiculous to someone older and wiser than them (such as the author, no doubt), yet also after stating "there is much fun to be had from fanboy baiting". A horribly cynical, stupid, misanthropic and blindly self-regarding piece of badly-written tosh.

I can safely state that this man has no wisdom, appears more childish and unwilling to accept reason or responsibility than most I've encountered on the internets, and makes this forum - stuffed to the rafters with 'fanboys' as it would be in his sneering appreciation - appear a haven of calm, rationality and mutual respect. He'd make me ashamed to be of his generation (or thereabouts) were he in any way representative of it. Fortunately, he seems a bit of an aberration from the norm, as well a total cuntwit.

Don't think I'll be subbing to any of his future newsletters. But well done, Bruce, for publicly appealing to all those horrible, smelly teenage people who buy your products.

I'm kind of hoping he's just done a Ratner actually.

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Big Gus

Big Gus

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Quality reading, but some of these old guys need to let go of the fucking 80's. I bought all sorts of games for my speccy, even in the "Playground tape swapping" era, had loads of "pirate" stuff as well but the quality of tape usually meant I'd be happy to stick with saving my pocket money for the original. Probably the same as a lot of people in current times who will torrent games but still be happy to buy an original when it's released - as long as it's a decent game.

The blog post does seem a bit fishy for using piracy as a reason for a company's demise and Stu puts up a lot of very good reasons why that is the case. I've read a fair bit of the rest of the blog and a lot of it is way of the mark in my opinion anyway. Bruce is really quite out of touch with gaming these days I'd say.

Could both be doing better things with their time though.

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gandhi

gandhi

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Posted
i want bruce to help me download a bit torrent onto my psp memory card. wow!

why did i bother with pandora batteries and CF? i must know nothing about games.

I thought shit like the two memory sticks crack and other software cracks put it in reach of a lot of people, personally. Most people I know seem to have cracked their PSP, one refuses to buy games. Not really a factor in the argument but why the fuck was Campbell so adamant that the PSP was hard to crack?!?

Fucking shit debate regardless. "You weren't there man" "it was the 80s man, I was there more than you!" "no I was at the scene man" "I WAS the scene man" "man" "man".

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gandhi

gandhi

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Posted
I don't think that was the substance of much of the debate, to be fair. Apart from much of Bruce's bits.

True. I think in the view of this forum Campbell came on top because of a certain level of bias though. No-one's fault, just the fact that everyone remembers what they read at the time. Not saying the company was great or crap because I don't know. But in my mind the debate didn't really go anywhere, no-one came up with substantiatial evidence but everyone insisted they were right because they were... right. "You know nothing" "No, you know nothing", etc.

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angel

angel

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Posted

having read most of it, it really feels like an old man arguing about things he didnt really understand 20 years ago with people way more knowledgable and eloquent.

i mean he chastises posters and deletes questions for alleged rudeness, yet starts every post with "X, you are delusional".

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Gorf King

Gorf King

Posted
Posted

(EDIT: To Ghandi) Well, there were several arguments put forward by Mr Everiss that didn't seem to stand up to the evidence presented in support of counter-arguments. I'd say that on the balance of the evidence presented he was pretty thoroughly shown up.

You could present different arguments and present different evidence, of course. But he didn't, and both his arguments and evidence were so flimsy (and so often repeatedly disproven) that I couldn't find any respect for him when he continued to trot them out regardless and accuse his interlocutors of being somehow wrong-headed*. Funnily enough, he sounded a bit like an anti-piracy...'fanboy'?

But it was the fanboy post that did it for me. Horrible, cringeworthy reading.

*And in view of this, quite ironic.

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gandhi

gandhi

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Posted
having read most of it, it really feels like an old man arguing about things he didnt really understand 20 years ago with people way more knowledgable and eloquent.

I don't know about knowledgeable, but I'm sure Campbell wasn't displaying any eloquence there.

Were the questions rude? I didn't see them, they were deleted. Campbell can be rude, it's what he does. Regardless, if he was trying to edit it in his favour it didn't work for Bruce, which makes me think he wasn't.

I'm actually inclined to see Bruce's point. "I was there" sounds like the easy thing to say. Fact is, he was there and he categorically denied a lot of the "stories" which makes it sound like there was a lot of spin at the time. Of course, he could be lying, I suppose.

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gandhi

gandhi

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Posted
(EDIT: To Ghandi) Well, there were several arguments put forward by Mr Everiss that didn't seem to stand up to the evidence presented in support of counter-arguments. I'd say that on the balance of the evidence presented he was pretty thoroughly shown up.

You could present different arguments and present different evidence, of course. But he didn't, and both his arguments and evidence were so flimsy (and so often repeatedly disproven) that I couldn't find any respect for him when he continued to trot them out regardless and accuse his interlocutors of being somehow wrong-headed*. Funnily enough, he sounded a bit like an anti-piracy...'fanboy'?

But it was the fanboy post that did it for me. Horrible, cringeworthy reading.

*And in view of this, quite ironic.

I'll take your word for it, I skipped half of Campbell's posts... I found the other guys far more entertaining :unsure:

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Gorf King

Gorf King

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Posted
I'm actually inclined to see Bruce's point. "I was there" sounds like the easy thing to say. Fact is, he was there and he categorically denied a lot of the "stories" which makes it sound like there was a lot of spin at the time. Of course, he could be lying, I suppose.

He was lying originally (when he told his initial story about the company) in that case.

Anyway, this is going to turn into a Campbell Thing, I think, so I'm bowing out. "I was there" really isn't enough. "I was there so I can tell you we were killed by piracy" is a non-sequitur in any case: he presents no direct evidence for it (poor sales != piracy, let alone does it account for some of his earlier accounts of mismanagement of the company).

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angel

angel

Posted
Posted

you have to hand it to stu, he's like a pirahna once he sees blood. bruce is, frankly, an imperceptive idiot who was there at the time. his comments on the modern industry are almost of daily mail ineptitude.

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stefcha

stefcha

Posted
Posted

TOCA WTC is the only PSX game I still own... It's miles better than GT2 (in that the AI actually has some I, and the cars fall to bits in a nice way) but as the thread implies, it's just misfortune and bad timing that it didn't sell as well as it deserved. Shame, really.

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Rev

Rev

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Bruce seemed genuinely out of touch from start to finish. Whenever I found myself disagreeing with Campbell I knew full well he was doing it to be awkward (the PSP piracy stuff, for example) but when Bruce said things that were wrong (the PSP piracy stuff, for example) it just seemed so hopeless and lost.

Pretty great stuff, all told.

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Ste Pickford

Ste Pickford

Posted
Posted

I like Bruce Everiss's blog.

I don't agree with him about piracy (although I only have gut instinct to go on, not direct experience or evidence), or agree with every single post he makes, but overall I think he's pretty interesting, often talks a lot of sense, and his blog is a good read.

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MK-1601

MK-1601

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I can safely state that this man has no wisdom, appears more childish and unwilling to accept reason or responsibility than most I've encountered on the internets, and makes this forum - stuffed to the rafters with 'fanboys' as it would be in his sneering appreciation - appear a haven of calm, rationality and mutual respect. He'd make me ashamed to be of his generation (or thereabouts) were he in any way representative of it. Fortunately, he seems a bit of an aberration from the norm, as well a total cuntwit.

I think it's a mistake to judge someone's 'wisdom' on an argument with Stu and a misfiring humour piece. He's written much more insightful stuff.

He is obviously non-technical in the same way Stu has a somewhat 'unconventional' grasp of physics.

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