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Kill bill

polygon_monkey

By polygon_monkey,
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danbot

danbot

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A lot of comic fans like to point out how "Tarantino completely misunderstood Superman."

The best response I've heard to that is: No, Tarantino didn't, but the character of Bill did. The fact that he can't understand why Superman would be anything other than contemptuous of normal people with lesser abilities is because Bill does have that opinion of people who aren't assassins or martial arts masters. So his whole analogy with Beatrix is flawed.

His understanding of Superman is analogous to his understanding of Beatrix, whether his understanding of Superman is accurate is irrelevant.

Also the way Bill talks about Clark Kent being the suit and Superman being the reality is what changed my perception and as far as I can see, he got that right. I never really got on board with Clark Kent's feigned weaknesses being Superman's critique of mankind.

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Art Vandelay

Art Vandelay

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It's really not very good. It's just a nerd's wet dream for people with a jackdaw's appreciation of cinema who like to think they're some sort of movie buff, but have probably just seen half a Bruce Lee film and didn't like that very much but feel they need to like kung-fu films to be properly 'well viewed' or whatever. In conclusion, I don't like it.

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Vemsie

Vemsie

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It's really not very good. It's just a nerd's wet dream for people with a jackdaw's appreciation of cinema who like to think they're some sort of movie buff, but have probably just seen half a Bruce Lee film and didn't like that very much but feel they need to like kung-fu films to be properly 'well viewed' or whatever. In conclusion, I don't like it.

What's that supposed to mean? Seriously, I've seen lots of martial arts movies, many of which I liked. I like Kill Bill as well, for many reasons. Thinking I'm a movie buff is not one of them.

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danbot

danbot

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It's really not very good. It's just a nerd's wet dream for people with a jackdaw's appreciation of cinema who like to think they're some sort of movie buff, but have probably just seen half a Bruce Lee film and didn't like that very much but feel they need to like kung-fu films to be properly 'well viewed' or whatever. In conclusion, I don't like it.

Shit, you totally nailed it!

Or maybe you didn't. Maybe some of us just liked it. Maybe some of us don't take too much pride in what we may or may not know about cinema.

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danbot

danbot

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I'm not far off though am I? It seems odd that people enjoy almost a direct facsimile of the films it apes, but not the originals, if that makes sense?

Please tell me the names of the films that Kill Bill is almost a direct facsimile of. I was under (the very possibly wrong) impression that Kill Bill is basically an homage to lots of different films but I thought it was Tarrantino's take on a mish mash of different stories and characters, almost like his greatest hits compilation of his favourite martial arts films.. Regardless, I fail to see what any of this has to whether I enjoy Kill Bill or not.

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Nick R

Nick R

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It's really not very good. It's just a nerd's wet dream for people with a jackdaw's appreciation of cinema

Tarantino acknowledges that: one of the last lines of volume 2 is the cartoon saying "The magpie deserves your respect."

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emjay2kay

emjay2kay

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I'm not far off though am I? It seems odd that people enjoy almost a direct facsimile of the films it apes, but not the originals, if that makes sense?

I don't remember anyone on here saying "Kill Bill's great, but I hate all that shit like Enter the Dragon." and I don't think that's what anyone is saying in here.

Maybe people on here did say that, but I don't remember it.

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danbot

danbot

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It's very similar to the story of Lady Snowblood, isn't it? i.e. female assassin gets revenge on the five people that ruined her (mother's) life.

I've not seen or heard of that. Is Kill Bill sufficiently different to warrant it's release.

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Chopsocky

Chopsocky

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Lady Snowblood was an obvious influence on Tarantino and he paid homage to it in Kill Bill in various ways especially with the song 'The Flower of Carnage' sung by Meiko Kaji (the star of Lady SnowBlood) which was the theme tune for that movie.

However the two movies are very different especially in the way the two protagonists handle their revenge.

I recommend that everybody see both.

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lordcookie

lordcookie

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I agree. Whilst Lady Snowblood is clearly a major influence (and they essentially share the same story) Kill Bill vol 1 more than stands on its own even if it is a mish-mash of other films. Lady Snowblood is brilliant though so well worth tracking down.

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danbot

danbot

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Weren't there two volumes of "Films that inspired Kill Bill" that were released just after? Came in the same yellow and black design. Zatoichi was in there and I'm sure Lady Snowblood was too.

Yes.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kill-Bill-Style-Se...047&sr=8-12

Couldn't find the 1st collection, but there you go.

Cheers i'll check that out. Is the Zatoichi film anything like the Takeshi Kitano Zatoichi? I really didn't like it.

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Chopsocky

Chopsocky

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I haven't seen much Zatoichi but Takeshi Kitano's version seemed very random and the character himself much 'cooler' (not a good thing) than poor old original Zatoichi and I guess it was more of a parody of the earlier films.

You might like the earlier Zatoichi films better.

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David Kenny

David Kenny

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There are a lot of specific references to other films in Kill Bill, in fact I assumed while watching it that even when I wasn't aware of it, each scene was an 'homage' to another film. This impression is enforced every now and then when I happen across some of the original source material. I watched the Five Fingers Of Death recently and the eye plucking motif and a very distinctive element of the soundtrack appeared in that.

I'm never sure if I like the films, they teeter on the precipice between homage and plagiarism which I'm uncomfortable with, and some of the dialogue and acting (especially Thurman's) is really awful. The choreography is poor, and I wonder while watching it if Tarantino understands what makes the films he's referencing so brilliant.

Having said that there are good moments and the story is engaging enough to keep me interested despite the flaws. I massively preferred Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction though. In fact Pulp Fiction seems more like a genuine homage to me than Kill Bill.

Oh and danbotding, I've seen maybe 6 or 7 of the original Zatoichi films and they're fairly standard Japanese samurai films, with the exception that the lead actor Shintarô Katsu is fantastic, as is the character he plays. There's none of the weirdness of Kitano's Zatoichi (although I loved that) if that's what put you off.

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danbot

danbot

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Oh and danbotding, I've seen maybe 6 or 7 of the original Zatoichi films and they're fairly standard Japanese samurai films, with the exception that the lead actor Shintarô Katsu is fantastic, as is the character he plays. There's none of the weirdness of Kitano's Zatoichi (although I loved that) if that's what put you off.

That sounds more up my street.

As an indication of what turned me off about TK's Z, the big song and dance thing at the end just left me thinking "what the hell?!" I thought it must be trying to lull me in to a false sense of security and then bam hit me with some brutal fight. Other than that I watched the whole thing thinking "is this it?" I was kind of waiting for a scene that might throw a different light on it because it all just seemed a little mediocre.

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David Kenny

David Kenny

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That sounds more up my street.

As an indication of what turned me off about TK's Z, the big song and dance thing at the end just left me thinking "what the hell?!" I thought it must be trying to lull me in to a false sense of security and then bam hit me with some brutal fight. Other than that I watched the whole thing thinking "is this it?" I was kind of waiting for a scene that might throw a different light on it because it all just seemed a little mediocre.

Yeah, there's none of that stuff at all. The character of Zatoichi is a bit different as well in these earlier films, on the surface he's totally harmless, even a bit stupid. Most of them have great scenes where the bad guys realise this blind old duffer has outwitted them. Before he chops them up good, of course.

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danbot

danbot

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Yeah, there's none of that stuff at all. The character of Zatoichi is a bit different as well in these earlier films, on the surface he's totally harmless, even a bit stupid. Most of them have great scenes where the bad guys realise this blind old duffer has outwitted them. Before he chops them up good, of course.

Thanks. Sounds good, I'll give them a go.

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deKay

deKay

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I recorded it last night on my V+ box, but thanks to *somebody* who was watching a recorded Celebrity Masterchef this morning and then turned the box off, at the wall, before the end of the programme, the V+ file database got corrupted. Of the 60+ shows on there, guess which *one* was unrecoverable?

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danbot

danbot

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I recorded it last night on my V+ box, but thanks to *somebody* who was watching a recorded Celebrity Masterchef this morning and then turned the box off, at the wall, before the end of the programme, the V+ file database got corrupted. Of the 60+ shows on there, guess which *one* was unrecoverable?

Errrrm, I dunno. Gimme a clue.

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Nick R

Nick R

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I ended up watching most of it again last night even though I've got it on DVD. I was surprised that the BBC showed pretty much all the sets of credits - surely it's the only film where the main cast is listed three times?

- The ones where it goes through all the cast members from both films, with Robert Rodriguez's music. I love that way of summarising the two films.

- The second bit where the camera zooms through the Kill Bill logo and then shows Uma driving along in black and white, with the dead characters' names being crossed out

- Then the old-fashioned "curtain" credits

- Plus the little outtake at the very end

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