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Football Manager 2009


redbloodcell
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SI have just released details of the new game (in video form)

Part 1 (gumpf about the series)

Part 2 (Main new features)

All sounds pretty good to me, I'm still hopelessly addicted to 08 (since 8.0.2 fixed most of the bugs), and having the engine in beta testing for the past year as part of FML sounds like this one is going to be a lot more stable out of the box. The Big Shiny New Feature could be proper mint if they get it right, so here's hoping they do!

Release date is November 14th, Demo 2 weeks before. Hoping it gets a Steam release like the last one (eventually) did!

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People should wait and see the state of the game before buying it. For example, fundamental areas remain broken and illogical even after the FM08 8.2 patch, like the confidence problem, the weather bug, the keeper bug, the transfer market and the regens. Also, the game needs serious improvement to A.I., press, player interactivity, awards and finance in certain leagues to name just a few.

FM08 was a really bad game with many, many show stopping bugs that remained there even after the latest patch. I am sure FM09 is going to try and rectify those problems and add some new features but since we've been listening about transfer market improvements, A.I. improvements, press improvements and regens improvement for the last 4 years, I am taking this year's with a pinch of salt and I will only be buying the game if everything that is being advertised works.

I hope FM08 won't be my final FM game. :lol:

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I'd hardly say FM08 had many show stopping bugs, in fact im still playing it regularly and have done since it was released. Its far from perfect but its still a very good game.

Not really. It has quite a few serious bugs, like the confidence problem that can bring your entire career down, and was released with amazing show stopping bugs like the loose pressing. Transfer market is laughably unrealistic, Press interaction is a joke, Manager A.I. is really stupid (especially on judging what players their team needs), regens are mostly shit, awards are unrealistic, Assistant manager is useless, Team Talks are unbalanced and saying one logical thing can completely destroy your team for no good reason, there is the keeper glitch where it can make you score 2/3 corners, the weather bug (especially Spain where I used to play)... And all these remain after the latest patch... :lol:

SI says that they are making some major changes to year-long problems... But they say that every year and yet nothing happens. They are a bit like Konami in that department. No competition has made them fat and bored. I'm still hopeful though every year but I won't be buying the game this time if I will not be getting what the box says.

Wait and see people. Wait and see.

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Indeed, there are still problems with the engine in 08 but seeing as 09 is using the FML one (which I'm guessing is pretty polished after a year of beta, correct me if I'm wrong!) I don't think that there will be anywhere near the same problems.

Someone on Thedugout forums posted up some more screenshots of the game - I really like the look of the press conferences and it also shows the inclusion of 'trial days' which look like a good idea.

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Indeed, there are still problems with the engine in 08 but seeing as 09 is using the FML one (which I'm guessing is pretty polished after a year of beta, correct me if I'm wrong!) I don't think that there will be anywhere near the same problems.

Someone on Thedugout forums posted up some more screenshots of the game - I really like the look of the press conferences and it also shows the inclusion of 'trial days' which look like a good idea.

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Yeah, I am hopeful too for the engine, though I am waiting to see how the 3D will be handled. As for the press conferences I am not holding my breath see because they can get boring really fast, like the pre match questions in FM08. Which of course are unbalanced too, one wrong answer and your entire team could have its morale completely destroyed for no logical reason (the same happens with team talks). Trial days sounds nice but I am waiting to see how they will handle the transfer market, the regens and the confidence issue. I got no hopes for better A.I. though :lol:

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You've just got to know which one to press for which type of team really. I only ever stick to 'could cause problems' or 'play to their best' depending upon if they're loads worse, or nearly equal to me respectively.

The biggest thing I'm hoping they re-vamp (well, you could call it de-vamp actually) is regens. In 08 they're not ready for competitive top flight football until they're 22 at least, I haven't had anyone younger than that be even close which is annoying and unrealistic, especially as I like to take the youth approach and build teams with very little money.

I think it looks like they're taking a good approach with the 3-D, nothing too complex is really needed, just enough to be able to see when someone puts in a dodgy foul or is just offside when the ball is played.

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I tried to 'go back' once, went back to 03/04 and it felt so limited I just couldn't continue, not having team talks was so frustrating and felt really limiting. I couldn't imagine not having the match engine, probably why I never really got into FMH in a big way.

Its not that they're all really 'broken' anyway, 07 was great but 08 tampered with a load of stuff which drastically changed the game, and then got rushed out a few weeks early.

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Yeah, I am hopeful too for the engine, though I am waiting to see how the 3D will be handled. As for the press conferences I am not holding my breath see because they can get boring really fast, like the pre match questions in FM08. Which of course are unbalanced too, one wrong answer and your entire team could have its morale completely destroyed for no logical reason (the same happens with team talks). Trial days sounds nice but I am waiting to see how they will handle the transfer market, the regens and the confidence issue. I got no hopes for better A.I. though :lol:

But heres the problem - if you know what the right or wrong answer is expected to by why the hell would you press the wrong answer? You would not - so there has to be a level of uncertainty - I dont particularly care for any of that nonsense (unless you are playing with mates) as I have not felt that it was core to the game and made much of a difference.

As for the 3d engine - I'll could not care less i normally put the match to super fast and just go text only!

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But heres the problem - if you know what the right or wrong answer is expected to by why the hell would you press the wrong answer? You would not - so there has to be a level of uncertainty - I dont particularly care for any of that nonsense (unless you are playing with mates) as I have not felt that it was core to the game and made much of a difference.

As for the 3d engine - I'll could not care less i normally put the match to super fast and just go text only!

No, you are missing the point. I want a logical outcome from a logical choice. I don't want a chaotic outcome from a logical choice. When I say to my team "do not get complacent" it means exactly that. It should mean exactly that. Especially since I am one of the best managers in the world atm. In FM08 it doesn't mean that, it means something else. I am not saying it should always be succesful, but it should at least make the players try not to get complacent. You can have a half playing astonishing football, while on the second you can't even pass it back to your keeper because you told the players not to get complacent.

Team talks was a feature with not much thought behind it, just like confidence, and certainly does not offer any elaborate interactivity between the players and the managers. Most of the times it's like lottery.

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I enjoyed FM08, but I barely gave it any time whatsoever, which is a first. I normally buy every release and get at least two decent length games out of it, the first coming when the game is initially released, and then around March the next year I'll return and give it another go. This is more down to my personal situations than anything, although I do find the game difficult to return to after a period away from the game, as it takes time to really get into its flow. I usually alleviate this by electing to start my career mid-season, which immediately tasks me with saving a team from relegation or some other goal, rather than boring myself silly with the pre-season.

Shame the video makes no real mention of leagues, other than Miles stating there'd be 51 of them, which is the same number that the previous versions had. Of course, that still leaves wiggle room to go into more depth in the ones they have - being an LLM type of player and a fan of non-league football in general I'd love to get stuck into even lower tiers.

FM Handheld might get a look in this year, too. Last years version was little more than a quick makeover, to my eyes. What new features were there meant nothing when the gameplay remained virtually identical. The CM3 series managed ok with the lack of a 2D match engine by making sure that the off-pitch game was always interesting, with plenty of players available throughout the world for you to go gem hunting, and the ability to run plenty of leagues to give the impression of a real vibrant footballing world (the lack of which in FM is a big flaw, for me). FM Handheld gave you one country and only a handful of players, with virtually no players existing elsewhere in the world besides the big names. Gameplay boiled down to playing until your tactics clicked, and then playing some more as you won games. There just wasn't enough.

A proper 2D engine (indeed, if they've ported the PC one, that would be tremendous) might give it the oomph required. Some of the most fun I've had in the PC versions has been crafting squads that play beautiful attacking football, where the pleasure is in watching, not just the result. Bring that in, and those bus journeys might get a little more fun.

If I decide to take the bus.

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Team talks was a feature with not much thought behind it, just like confidence, and certainly does not offer any elaborate interactivity between the players and the managers. Most of the times it's like lottery.

All I can really say to that is ur doin it wrong! Team talks are massively effective at getting players to turn their performances around.

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My gripe with teamtalks is that you don't get any feedback whatsoever until after the match. I dunno how these fancy dan managers do it these days, but when I'm talking to someone I'm usually able to gauge their reaction, at least to the miserable degree my assistant does and decides to keep from me.

I'd like to make my team talks, get reactions, and then use that to form my expectations on how things might go in the second half. If a player looked like he was taking on new confidence and started the half well, I'd know right away that he's reacted well. If his head goes low and he starts poorly, he's a candidate for coming off.

On top, I'd like to be able to distinguish between good and bad spells to some degree. When you're playing against a top side and you throw away a two goal lead to draw 2-2, it's a good result, a good performance, but you're disappointed, right? So what do you tell the players, that you're happy, or not? Will they get uppity if you declare your disappointment? Will they get complacent if you say you're pleased?

I wonder if a different system should be employed, with one drop down allowing you to select your disposition (angry, calm, frustrated, etc.), a second giving your reaction to the events (pleased, disappointed, concerned etc.), with perhaps a final option indicating your desires for the second half (no complacency, more aggression, ease off etc) if applicable.

Instead of having a list of five or six full sentences, you would use basic emotions and desires to form a "talk", both to individual players and to the whole team, leaving you under no illusions as to what you were actually intending to get across, whilst also giving you more variety to work with. How your players then react is another matter, but you would have your expectations. A team talk shouldn't really be any more vague than an instruction to run down the flank - imagine if tactics were single sentences and you can imagine the frustrations people would have.

A problem with that is selecting your own mood. I've gone in at half time a very angry man, but if I could appear nice and calm, I'd possibly be missing out on a lucrative self-help career. Not sure how I could implement it any better though, short of microphone support to detect outbursts of fury.

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No, you are missing the point. I want a logical outcome from a logical choice. I don't want a chaotic outcome from a logical choice. When I say to my team "do not get complacent" it means exactly that.

I think you have missed the whole point of football :blink: its never logical and thats why we love it.

Anyway they could not implement a decent team talk system hence why i let the ass-man do it. How could they possibly model the physiological impact and pressure of the relationship between the player and manager in a realistic way?? No supercomputer in the world could manage this.

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My gripe with teamtalks is that you don't get any feedback whatsoever until after the match. I dunno how these fancy dan managers do it these days, but when I'm talking to someone I'm usually able to gauge their reaction, at least to the miserable degree my assistant does and decides to keep from me.

I'd like to make my team talks, get reactions, and then use that to form my expectations on how things might go in the second half. If a player looked like he was taking on new confidence and started the half well, I'd know right away that he's reacted well. If his head goes low and he starts poorly, he's a candidate for coming off.

On top, I'd like to be able to distinguish between good and bad spells to some degree. When you're playing against a top side and you throw away a two goal lead to draw 2-2, it's a good result, a good performance, but you're disappointed, right? So what do you tell the players, that you're happy, or not? Will they get uppity if you declare your disappointment? Will they get complacent if you say you're pleased?

I wonder if a different system should be employed, with one drop down allowing you to select your disposition (angry, calm, frustrated, etc.), a second giving your reaction to the events (pleased, disappointed, concerned etc.), with perhaps a final option indicating your desires for the second half (no complacency, more aggression, ease off etc) if applicable.

Instead of having a list of five or six full sentences, you would use basic emotions and desires to form a "talk", both to individual players and to the whole team, leaving you under no illusions as to what you were actually intending to get across, whilst also giving you more variety to work with. How your players then react is another matter, but you would have your expectations. A team talk shouldn't really be any more vague than an instruction to run down the flank - imagine if tactics were single sentences and you can imagine the frustrations people would have.

A problem with that is selecting your own mood. I've gone in at half time a very angry man, but if I could appear nice and calm, I'd possibly be missing out on a lucrative self-help career. Not sure how I could implement it any better though, short of microphone support to detect outbursts of fury.

Go get a job at SI please, that's a great idea! I think that the enhanced assistant feedback is a step in the right direction in regards to getting more feedback during matches, I hope that with it comes the ability for your tactics changes to be implemented straight away again. Having things not happen until the ball goes out is so frustrating, especially when its something that you know would be getting bellowed at the team by managers IRL.

They also need to look at the way the goalkeeper's distribution works, too many times they hoof the bloody thing upfield when there's no need and their passing is set to short. Having a striker that's a shortarse means you just end up losing possession in those instances again and again until someone manages to nick it.

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I hope they change the fact that if you give your team low performance bonuses at the start of the year it destroys their confidence all season making it almost impossible to get anywhere near the top of the table even if you have won the league the previous 5 seasons.

Also you cannot seem to change it once it is decided.

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No, you are missing the point. I want a logical outcome from a logical choice. I don't want a chaotic outcome from a logical choice. When I say to my team "do not get complacent" it means exactly that. It should mean exactly that. Especially since I am one of the best managers in the world atm. In FM08 it doesn't mean that, it means something else. I am not saying it should always be succesful, but it should at least make the players try not to get complacent. You can have a half playing astonishing football, while on the second you can't even pass it back to your keeper because you told the players not to get complacent.

Team talks was a feature with not much thought behind it, just like confidence, and certainly does not offer any elaborate interactivity between the players and the managers. Most of the times it's like lottery.

But wouldn't that be dependant on what type of players you have in your team? Like for example how some players react fine when you change their status from "1st team football" to "squad rotator" but others put in a transfer request immediately, even if you haven't dropped them from the team. What I'm saying is that just cos you give a team talk saying one thing doesn't necessarily mean you'll get the exact same result, it's surely dependant on lots of factors, such as the type of players you have already and your standing as a manager.

Or something.

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But wouldn't that be dependant on what type of players you have in your team? Like for example how some players react fine when you change their status from "1st team football" to "squad rotator" but others put in a transfer request immediately, even if you haven't dropped them from the team. What I'm saying is that just cos you give a team talk saying one thing doesn't necessarily mean you'll get the exact same result, it's surely dependant on lots of factors, such as the type of players you have already and your standing as a manager.

Or something.

You missed this in my post:

I am not saying it should always be succesful, but it should at least make the players try not to get complacent. You can have a half playing astonishing football, while on the second you can't even pass it back to your keeper because you told the players not to get complacent.

Team talks and media responses before a match are broken and do not work as intended. They have too much influence over the outcome, so much so that whatever tactic or players you use it doesn't matter if you have chosen the "wrong" response.

Don't try to defend some obvious problems, unless you haven't really paid much attention to them.

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  • 1 month later...

Looking forward to the demo, but the timing is a bit off. This week is half term, I am off work and could have had a good go on it, as it is, I'll be sat in work thinking about my new FM09 save. Those people at SI are real trouble makers!

I hope that rather than big changes, they just fix the small things that bugged me in the game. But we'll see, looking forward to the 3D engine too, and seeing the new transfer system in action.

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Demo is out on 2nd of November for those interested. Looking forward to seeing the 3D match engine in action!

It's a strange old situation where by so many FM lovers hated the idea of a 3D match engine when CM were going towards it...and now it's loved! :wub:

TBH FIFA Manager looks awesome, I like the different take, and it's very shiny.

FM08 wasn't bad but it felt like such a grind at times. I like the FIFA Manager take. I played the 07 verison and it was very good - 2 years on they're just adding so much more stuff, and with the FIFA 09 engine...!

189109-fifa-manager09-56.jpg

189102-fifa-manager09-49.jpg

185630-fifamanager-4.jpg

189097-fifa-manager09-44.jpg

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