Shmups

[Dr Seedyman]

Its been a while, and since they have had a little bit of a resurgence since the XBLA release of Ikaruga and the criminally under talked about Triggerheart Excelcia I wanted to start a thread. I know we have some hardcore bullet dodgers on here. Lets talk about what makes them still appeal in todays somewhat slightly stale climate of racers and first person shooters. Whats your favourite and why. This thread is inspired by an afternoon spent playing an awesome trinity of Area 88,Under Defeat and the almighty Psyvarier 2!

[Qazimod]

Well given that my favourite shooter (and indeed game) ever is over a decade old, I'll avoid answering that and keep things modern. Most recently I've been enjoying Ikaruga of course, but other modern favourites include the likes of Psyvariar and Under Defeat, and some PC indie shooters such as CRK 68K and (most recently) Ad Nauseum 2.

I think to work out why I like them, I have to go back to why I like any of my favourite games: pretty much all of them have challenges based around a satisfying amount of player control, so there's no excuse for being crap, no calling the game unfair...and this is what most shoot 'em ups are all about. And I especially like ones that always have a more challenging, yet optional approach (such as all these chaining and comboing games such as Ikaruga and DDP.)

Also, some of the earliest games I played were shoot 'em ups (stuff like Uridium) so I've always enjoyed them.

[Dr Seedyman]

What an awesome post. Seriously. Its about the bosses for me. Call it a bit cheesy but I just love that explosion and slowdown. especially if it gives you an Ikaruga style "Warning:No Refuge" thing on the screen. I love it. Under Defeat does gorgeous bosses. When you sink the big aircraft carrier and it starts to rain. Beautiful

[sir stiff_one]

I've been playing Homura recently, on the PS2.

It's got a pretty cool system

[Davros sock drawer]

PC indie shooters such as CRK 68K and (most recently) Ad Nauseum 2.

Thanks for those links, playing Ad Nauseum now. It's rather lovely.

[Dr Seedyman]

Im gonna admit, I have never played a cave shooter. Ever. Im sure I must have played shooters from nearly every other well know dev. Treasure, G.Rev etc but have never had the equipment to enjoy a cave shooter at home. Im not really a bullet hell kind of guy. I do love Castle Of Shikagami 2.

[nietzschedancing]

I've been playing Homura recently, on the PS2.

It's got a pretty cool system

Definitely. It's never been given the credit it's due.

The only two I've been playing of late are Shikigami no Shiro III and Pink Sweets. I've fallen into their groove and mustering the will to have a fair crack at anything else would be difficult. As for my interest in the genre, I can't put my finger on it. I guess they reward a certain kind of thirst for rote learning/constant refining. The satisfaction from that refining outweighs that offered by many genres. Same reason I play fighting games, even if I'm arse at them.

[Dr Seedyman]

Im thinking Xbox live arcade really should embrace this HD remasters of DC shooters thing. Both Ikaruga and Triggerheart Excelcia look gorgeous. There is a ton of stuff they could port from the 'cast alone. Chaos Field was good for bosses. Karous and Radirigy would look gorgeous in Hd. Under Defeat does that old scool choplifter/area 88/apocolypse now thing nicely. All would be well worth the 6 or so quid they would charge.

[boxoctosis]

I like the way you have to playing them with your tongue poking ever so slightly out, such is the level of concentration required. On something like Gradius V, where your brain is having to operate in about 8 different directions at once, it's pretty good.

[sir stiff_one]

I was talking about this the other day after having a bash on Mars Matrix on the DC and slowly remembering how it works.

I think my brother said that it's amazing how bad you get at these games when you don't play for a while and I think that's a massive part of the attraction - not how bad you get, but how good you got in the first place! There aren't many other genres in which you constantly break skill barriers and amaze yourself in such a small, concentrated, frantic space of time.

[Dr Seedyman]

Definitely. It's never been given the credit it's due. The only two I've been playing of late are Shikigami no Shiro III and Pink Sweets. I've fallen into their groove and mustering the will to have a fair crack at anything else would be difficult. As for my interest in the genre, I can't put my finger on it. I guess they reward a certain kind of thirst for rote learning/constant refining. The satisfaction from that refining outweighs that offered by many genres. Same reason I play fighting games, even if I'm arse at them.

So, whats Shiro 3 like. Awesome? Im seriously considering a Japanese Wii so I can play that and the Milestone Collection. Oh yeah, anyone who owns a 360 and a Hori stick needs to hook up a copy of Wartech:senko no ronde. Its awesome. Stiff? Is it something you have played, knowing you love your shooters and fighters. Did you like it?

[sir stiff_one]

I haven't played it! Link me up homeboy. Have you played Homura?

Basically, you're a dude with wings and you and kill everyone on screen with ninja slices and the music is wicked.

Just had a quick look at HD Ikaruga, it looks pretty smart eh?

[Swallow]

Shiki III is at least as good as II, James. Stupid bastard puzzle blocks are stupid bastards though..

[nietzschedancing]

Shikikami no Shiro III is pretty much the definition of awesome, yeah. The scoring's been given an overhaul to give it a Raizing flavour, so suicides are encouraged for the best scores. To off set the nature of that the difficulty has been kicked up a few notches but the whole system works brilliantly.

[Dr Seedyman]

I like the way you have to playing them with your tongue poking ever so slightly out, such is the level of concentration required. On something like Gradius V, where your brain is having to operate in about 8 different directions at once, it's pretty good.

Gradius V is beautiful. The level with the Timewarp is so cool. I would love to see what treasure could do with Pop And Twinbee.

[TehStu]

Excellent! I'm hopeless at these games, but love playing them and finding new ones.

ABA games

You guys probably know about this guy and his freeware PC stuff, but pretty much everything from his Windows selection is excellent. I'm particularly liking Torus Trooper at the moment, especially the music.

Going to give 68k and AN2 a whirl, cheers for the heads up.

[boxoctosis]

Gradius V is beautiful. The level with the Timewarp is so cool. I would love to see what treasure could do with Pop And Twinbee.

Oh man, Pop And Twinbee, if ever there was a game that needed a remake....

Also, any noise about the SNES one coming to the VC?

[Swallow]

I haven't played it! Link me up homeboy. Have you played Homura?

Senko's a very neat game. It's very pretty, but as most of the action is one vs. one (this is why it's propped as a fighting game/shmup mashup) it doesn't give the adrenalin rush of scrolling shooters, but it has a very satisfying system in it's own way.

Well worth a few hours of your time I think.

[Dr Seedyman]

I like the way you have to playing them with your tongue poking ever so slightly out, such is the level of concentration required. On something like Gradius V, where your brain is having to operate in about 8 different directions at once, it's pretty good.

Gradius V is beautiful. The level with the Timewarp is so cool. I would love to see what treasure could do with Pop And Twinbee.

[Dr Seedyman]

Shikikami no Shiro III is pretty much the definition of awesome, yeah. The scoring's been given an overhaul to give it a Raizing flavour, so suicides are encouraged for the best scores. To off set the nature of that the difficulty has been kicked up a few notches but the whole system works brilliantly.

What console you playing it on. Worth buying a Jap Wii for. Can I freeloader it up?

[Dr Seedyman]

A remake of Pop And Twinbee would be awesome. In the mean time pick up the Konami P&TB collection for the PSP. Its gorgeous. If we are talking HD remakes, surely Prehistoric Isle! You were in a Bi-Plane for fuck sake. Keep your winged ninjas and your mechs, a fucking Bi-Plane.

[nietzschedancing]

I've got it on both the 360 and Wii. The versions are basically identical only with the Wii version looking slightly softer as it can't do the native resolution of Shiki III. Only a very minor bug bear. I don't know if it can be used with a Freeloader, sadly. I'll see if I can find out.

[Jonster]

So, whats Shiro 3 like. Awesome? Im seriously considering a Japanese Wii so I can play that and the Milestone Collection. Oh yeah, anyone who owns a 360 and a Hori stick needs to hook up a copy of Wartech:senko no ronde. Its awesome. Stiff? Is it something you have played, knowing you love your shooters and fighters. Did you like it?

I haven't played Wartech since I got my stick I really should.

[Dr Seedyman]

I've got it on both the 360 and Wii. The versions are basically identical only with the Wii version looking slightly softer as it can't do the native resolution of Shiki III. Only a very minor bug bear. I don't know if it can be used with a Freeloader, sadly. I'll see if I can find out.

Im guessing its not region free is it? :-(

[Qazimod]

Thanks for those links, playing Ad Nauseum now. It's rather lovely.

Excellent! I'm hopeless at these games, but love playing them and finding new ones.

ABA games

You guys probably know about this guy and his freeware PC stuff, but pretty much everything from his Windows selection is excellent. I'm particularly liking Torus Trooper at the moment, especially the music.

Going to give 68k and AN2 a whirl, cheers for the heads up.

If you guys want similar goodness, there are a few indie nuts here who update the indie games thread regularly with any cool stuff we find; it's dead handy.

[Dimahoo]

For me its lots of things. Scoring concepts, the feel of destruction and sprite use are the main ones though. Its quite hard to recommend titles as i have lots of love but i find most of the intresting stuff comes on the PC. Theres some real gems on there like the Touhou series with its use of spell cards (that influence boss bullet patterns), and Trouble Witches - which is the best hori shump since Graidus V IMO and has even made it to arcades in Japan (only the second doujin game to do so i think)...

Of course i shouldn't forget my live gamertag, Dimahoo named after an arcade/Mame/PSP shmup which is seriously underrated yet features a fantastic scoring mechanic of collecting loads of objects when you kill AI with your firey breath.

As Qaz says, most of it is in the Homebrew thread somewhere although i can't recall if it links to Bike Banditz or Lunaria by French Bread.

It does link to Hellsinker, which is the most complicated shmup i've ever played.

[Triple A]

I love SHMUPs, though I don't get hardly enough time to really appreciate them fully. Made even worse by the fact that I've been known to drop hundreds at a time on a Cave kit (or few). Yes folks, I'm sad leet alright. Mushi Futari is absolutely stunning and I can't wait for DDP Dai-Fukkatsu.

[Dimahoo]

Mushi Futari is absolutely stunning and I can't wait for DDP Dai-Fukkatsu.

Yes indeed, you can't really argue with that...

You can never get enough of beautiful bullet patterns.

I must admit i've not played any of the latest 4-5 Cave shmups (from Pink Sweets onwards i think) as none of them have seen conversion on the PS2.

[Dr Seedyman]

Wow, some of that cave stuff looks beautiful. I may have to pick up a Jap PS2 and go on a bit of a spending spree. Something gonna have to work hard to get me away from Under Defeat. It didnt get a huge about of love on release if I remember but by god the explosions are gorgeous and anything that lets me take down a stealth bomber is ace. See also Area-88 :-)

[Dimahoo]

UD gots lots of love on here. With Cave games I'd plump with a PS2 and buy ESPGaluda and Mushimeshama as they're superb and the bullet patterns will blow you away. You just sit their and grin at the sheer number of bullets.

Ibara is different beast though as its more similar to the Battle Gerraga/Bakaid games and features faster more direct attack patterns (with some nasty black bullets - just like the BB/BG games).