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Why shouldn't downloadable content be resellable?


northy
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You buy a downloadable arcade game, additional content or film and you play it to death before probably delete it from the HDD to create some space. Exactly the same thing could apply to iTunes, Steam and will inevitably be standard for full price games and whatever other media becomes popular in the future.

Now I know that the reason for this is to maximise the profits of the companies involved and is leveraged by their proprietary systems but why are we putting up with it? When I was a student, the only way I could reasonably diverse range of games was by selling off games as I completed them and this must be the case for a large number of people.

It would be entirely possible for the company to generate a unique activation code for your game if you chose to resell it which you could email to the buyer through eBay (and then your copy would be disabled) but this situation has never even been mentioned by anyone. We're collectively allowing companies to change the entire dynamic of buying and selling our purchases and not even putting up a fight.

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH US?!

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*waits for a certain JP to post here with the benefits of DLC* :huh:

I can fully understand the reasons companies are so into this, after all why should Game make cash from used titles, when the people who created them dont make a single penny?

But it does (and will) hugely increase the cost of games to the public, and I am 100% sure the publishers/ devs wont pass a single penny of this windfall to the customers, so fuck em :unsure:

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Having thought about it a bit more you could even have places like eBay automating the system by allowing you to enter the ID of the owner and the ID of the seller and a unique security code (which has to be generated from your own console to avoid theft) to expedite the transfer perhaps giving the content provider a cut of the profits on the sale so everyone wins.

Someone who's less lazy than me should start a campaign.

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We don't live in a fair society, which is why people steal and engage in other criminal activities.

I suppose you could find people selling their old HDD and gamertags so you could transfer the licenses for games to your console, but even then, that will only work if Microsoft have the License Transfer Tool online in 20 years time. In reality, I'm sure all the DRM used this gen will be well and truely cracked before that point in time.

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We don't live in a fair society, which is why people steal and engage in other criminal activities.

I suppose you could find people selling their old HDD and gamertags so you could transfer the licenses for games to your console, but even then, that will only work if Microsoft have the License Transfer Tool online in 20 years time. In reality, I'm sure all the DRM used this gen will be well and truely cracked before that point in time.

All fair points but consumers legally buying and then wishing to resell items should be able to do so within the law. If companies wish to prevent this then they should be compelled to do so by the EU. Just because it's what we're used to neither makes it fair nor an unalterable truth.

Edit: I'm definitely against this only being for gametags, individual games etc. should be able to be resold.

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What, you mean I download an album off Itunes and then want to sell it to someone else. To make this possible we would need a system whereby the person who brought the data off me can download it from me and then automatically delete the original file. For this idea to work then it has to work without the new buyer re downloading it from Itunes becuase this costs them money. They would need to connect to your PC and take the data.

I'm not saying this can't work, I guess you would just upload the data to a secure website and give the other person the password to access it. The original company then steps to validate the new owners copy and invalidate yours. However I'm not sure we can use legislation to force companies to take part in this process. Legally companies don't have to make it so that we can re-sell what we buy from them, its just in the past with physical items this has been able to happen without needing to involve the original company. Show me a scenario where you could justifiable and legally sell data onto someone else whilst also removing your right to use that data and allowing the new owner to use it without anything to do with the original company and I might agree. After all don't people already sell Warcraft and other MMO possessions on ebay?

Finally surely the final nail in the coffin of re-selling downloaded content is that lots of downloadable games etc. you are not buying the game you are buy the license to run that game. Can we sell on that license? I'm not sure. And if companies want to just sell us the license to play a game then I'm not sure we can use legislature to change that. Basically when you buy a game (at least in the future it will probably be this way) you are buying the license from the company to allow **** **** (insert your name) to play that game. In that situation if when you brought the original game you agreed to the terms and conditions of the contract that you were merely purchasing a license for yourself or your specific machine to run that game then I don't know how you could legally sell it on and I don't see any reason why this would be considered illegal under the current law...

Not saying its a bad idea, just saying I don't think we can force companies to do this using the law and I don't think they will do it voluntarily. Which means....

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Thinking about it, perhaps the fairest and most logical way of implementing this idea is for companies to buy back the game. Think of marketplace. Say you buy Worms for 800 points. Perhaps a system where once you are finished with it, you tell MS, they disable your system from playing it and refund you 400 points whcih you can then use to buy something else.

You win because you get value back from a game you don't want any more and can use ti to buy another game. MS wins in happy consumers, not really losing any money (it's not like they've actually refunded cash to you and they still get to keep half the original sale value) and encourages people to buy and play more games from different produces thus keeping smaller game companies happy. Plus the game they sold you doesn't get sold to someone else without them seeing any of the value of that sale. I'm actually quite taken with that idea... Kills the second hand market and any potential justification from consumers for wanting to sell on their downloaded items but allows them to operate a trade in scheme so you can try another game but they still make money from the first purchase. Like a long term rental where you pay X up front for it and get half back in store credit when you bring it back...

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You buy a downloadable arcade game, additional content or film and you play it to death before probably delete it from the HDD to create some space. Exactly the same thing could apply to iTunes, Steam and will inevitably be standard for full price games and whatever other media becomes popular in the future.

Now I know that the reason for this is to maximise the profits of the companies involved and is leveraged by their proprietary systems but why are we putting up with it? When I was a student, the only way I could reasonably diverse range of games was by selling off games as I completed them and this must be the case for a large number of people.

It would be entirely possible for the company to generate a unique activation code for your game if you chose to resell it which you could email to the buyer through eBay (and then your copy would be disabled) but this situation has never even been mentioned by anyone. We're collectively allowing companies to change the entire dynamic of buying and selling our purchases and not even putting up a fight.

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH US?!

I'm pretty depressed about it myself. I almost exclusively dabble in the second hand market because of the cost of new games, so seeing that go away is cause for concern. I think this also counts towards the fact that you can't really return your games either. Even if I'm given a preview of it and all the review scores in the world, some games I'll pay forty pounds for and not like and it's going to sit untouched on my hard disk while I rue my expensive, immovable purchase. Yeah, I've bought things like magazines and drinks I don't like too and can't give back, but they don't usually cost forty big pounds.

Ironically, then, while with most games I'll wait six months or so for them to drop to an affordable price, I have no qualms buying an XBLA game on launch day for its full price. Because I know it's almost never going to come down in price and I can never buy it second hand, why wait? Part of me hates giving into my principles, but there is one advantage to DLC there, although I'm not quite sure who for...

I'm sure there's been arguments either way about whether you actually own a downloaded game, film, etc. or just own a license to play it, wherein I think most media outlets favour the latter as it allows them to control pricing. I think it's not much of a mainstream issue right now because physical media is still the norm. Give it a decade or however long, when HMV, Blockbuster and Game shut shop (although I don't think books will ever truly succumb) and I think we'll see the issue of ownership rights landing back in the hands of the buyer where digital content is treated more as a physical object to be passed on and the technology is in place to prove it. That's my hope, at least.

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Thinking about it, perhaps the fairest and most logical way of implementing this idea is for companies to buy back the game. Think of marketplace. Say you buy Worms for 800 points. Perhaps a system where once you are finished with it, you tell MS, they disable your system from playing it and refund you 400 points whcih you can then use to buy something else.

You win because you get value back from a game you don't want any more and can use ti to buy another game. MS wins in happy consumers, not really losing any money (it's not like they've actually refunded cash to you and they still get to keep half the original sale value) and encourages people to buy and play more games from different produces thus keeping smaller game companies happy. Plus the game they sold you doesn't get sold to someone else without them seeing any of the value of that sale. I'm actually quite taken with that idea... Kills the second hand market and any potential justification from consumers for wanting to sell on their downloaded items but allows them to operate a trade in scheme so you can try another game but they still make money from the first purchase. Like a long term rental where you pay X up front for it and get half back in store credit when you bring it back...

Surely this would just mean that prices get raised to cover the projected amount of returns?

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Thinking about it, perhaps the fairest and most logical way of implementing this idea is for companies to buy back the game. Think of marketplace. Say you buy Worms for 800 points. Perhaps a system where once you are finished with it, you tell MS, they disable your system from playing it and refund you 400 points whcih you can then use to buy something else.

You win because you get value back from a game you don't want any more and can use ti to buy another game. MS wins in happy consumers, not really losing any money (it's not like they've actually refunded cash to you and they still get to keep half the original sale value) and encourages people to buy and play more games from different produces thus keeping smaller game companies happy. Plus the game they sold you doesn't get sold to someone else without them seeing any of the value of that sale. I'm actually quite taken with that idea... Kills the second hand market and any potential justification from consumers for wanting to sell on their downloaded items but allows them to operate a trade in scheme so you can try another game but they still make money from the first purchase. Like a long term rental where you pay X up front for it and get half back in store credit when you bring it back...

Good idea, and it is self rewarding to the titles that are good enough / pass the test of time, as a lower percentage of these will be refunded as peeps will want to keep them.

Thing is, its a small step away from rental, and for some unkown reason I still dislike that idea, despite its obvious advantages.

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I like the idea of having a subscription model - paying £X per month for unlimited access to games. I think Gametap does this. The Zune marketplace does this for music too.

I know people love cheap stuff but it's depressing that people would rather give their money to Game than to the developers who work hard to make the games.

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Surely this would just mean that prices get raised to cover the projected amount of returns?

Perhaps. Frankly unless there is pressure on companies I doubt they will do any of the suggestions in this thread. If there is pressure I think they might be more willing to do something along the lines of what I've suggested than allowing an actual second hand market. The lesser of two evils if you will...

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I like the idea of having a subscription model - paying £X per month for unlimited access to games. I think Gametap does this. The Zune marketplace does this for music too.

I ran a website, until the week before last, that did just this for casual games. Metaboli run a similar service for PC games normally supplied on CD/DVD.

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I like the idea of having a subscription model - paying £X per month for unlimited access to games. I think Gametap does this. The Zune marketplace does this for music too.

A HBO of games is one of my dreams both it terms of subscription model and content.

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these things having no resell value doesn't bother me at all for some reason. why should downloadable content be resellable? just cause you can resell some things doesnt mean you can resell everything.

My only concern is that if everything turned into downloads and there was no physical media being output, whereby the publishers of music, films, games, books etc. could dictate the prices indefinitely. don't think that's likely to happen though.

My only real experiences with things that can only be downloaded is xbox live and steam so far. and they're mostly very good value.

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The only thing that concerns me about downloaded content is whether I get to keep it when the next generation of consoles comes along. I would hope this would'nt be too hard with things like PSN, but if the Wii dosen't have some way of transferring my VC & Wiiware purchases they can just forget it & i'll go back to emulation.

As far as i'm concerned, I have bought the right to play Super Mario World & Ratchet & Clank: Quest for Booty, so i'm not going to pay for it again.

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The worst thing is that in the future, there will be no way to play these old downloaded games unless you bought them first time round (and assuming your console still works).

I agree with the sentiment, but this is really no different to retail games going out of print. If a disc-based game is no longer sold, my options are eBay (which may not offer the game at all, or have a ludicrously inflated price based on American kids having heard of it) or piracy. With digital distribution at least the overheads for keeping back catalogue games available are negligible.

I like the idea of having a subscription model - paying £X per month for unlimited access to games. I think Gametap does this. The Zune marketplace does this for music too.

It's a shit model for music (has been tried dozens of times over the last decade, and never caught on), and pretty questionable for games, although if you like dipping into lots of games for short periods of time it probably makes more sense than renting games individually I guess.

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The worst thing is that in the future, there will be no way to play these old downloaded games unless you bought them first time round (and assuming your console still works).

I agree with the sentiment, but this is really no different to retail games going out of print.

It's completely different. At least there will be the option to buy an old game from ebay. There's no way XBLA will exist in the form it does now, with the same content it has now, in 20 years time. In fact, I wouldn't at all be surprised if the next XBox isn't compatible with the current service/games.

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As far as i'm concerned, I have bought the right to play Super Mario World & Ratchet & Clank: Quest for Booty, so i'm not going to pay for it again.

You've only brought the right to play it on the Wii and if you want to play it in the future just keep the Wii.

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