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Star Wars: The Old Republic


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Basically you want the EVE Online concept taken further and placed in a "standard mmo" package. :unsure:

Well, actually, I want the Planetside concept taken into a more mainstream MMO, and developed further - in Planetside, the war waged across the planet everyone played on, and you would be fighting at the current battle-lines, which would move back and forth over time.

EVE is similar, but it suffers from the same problem of both PvP being a long way off for a new starter, and also the combat being about crunching numbers (not JUST about them of course). Basically a player in a battleship will always beat a player in a frigate, merely because a battleship is "better". I want a situation where two or three X-Wings can knock out a Star Destroyer a system at a time, eventually blowing it away through teamwork - if the Star Destroyer player is actually a bit crap, but has just been grinding longer.

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The nature of WoW, with its carefully designed locations obviously makes that infeasible - but something like Star Wars doesn't have that difficulty.

Surely, considering that the main USP for TOR is its focus on controlled storytelling, its even less feasible for it to have a particularly dynamic universe? (Also, early reports suggesting its dungeons to be tightly designed for dramatic effect, with 'reveals' of stunning sights and/or monstrous bosses placed for maximum effect, suggest that a dynamic, moving battlefield would be the last thing Bioware want)

Perhaps another developer would do things differently, but the areas Bioware (as a plot-oriented RPG specialist) want to concentrate on are very different from, and largely mutually exclusive to, the areas you seem interested in.

In other words: move along, this isn't the MMO you're looking for.

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Well i was hoping for the bounty hunter class and there it is, I think they'll release some type of commando class as well which means i'll be stuck on what to play. I've played melee healers in my last 2 MMOs so i'm really hoping one doesn't turn up here because that draw will be far to strong.

WAR does the whole constant war stuff with constant moving battlefronts quite well, it's just a shame that so many other parts of the game totally ruin all the good things about it, i did my 6 months and now i've given up on it, far to many glaring problems. Most people thought patch 1.2 would be the patch to fix the game but it's just made it 10 times worse and making the balance between sides and classes just horrible.

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I still can't get past the 'Sith offering a truce' thing. It's ruining MY IMMERSION, man! We should be marching across the galaxy glassing every last world in the Republic like a bunch of intergalactic Begbies in warships, wiping out the hated Jedi wherever we find them. If we go into a bar and there's a bunch of Jedi there, we're not going to just order a round, sit on the other side of the room and cackle while flicking peanuts over at them because we have a truce, we're kicking off right then and there, ramming their lightsabres up their rectums and hitting them in the face with the fixtures and fittings, picking up snaggletooths and clubbing them to death with them. Then we grab some hot Twi'lek chicks and go to a classy restaurant for an evening of wine and philosphical discussion before a quick tango in the local ballroom then finally taking them home and banging their tentacles out.

Gosh darn it, Bioware.

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Well, actually, I want the Planetside concept taken into a more mainstream MMO, and developed further - in Planetside, the war waged across the planet everyone played on, and you would be fighting at the current battle-lines, which would move back and forth over time.

EVE is similar, but it suffers from the same problem of both PvP being a long way off for a new starter, and also the combat being about crunching numbers (not JUST about them of course). Basically a player in a battleship will always beat a player in a frigate, merely because a battleship is "better".

Sorry to bring this up yet again, but since it has been mentioned yet again I think it's fair to say that neither of those statements is in any way true. PvP can be entered into on day one in Eve, although obviously you're not going to be particularly skilled or well equipped for it on day one. But that's to be expected, no? In any case, it's certainly not "a long way off".

A player in a battleship will not always beat a player in a frigate. Not at all. It may well (most likely in fact) end up in a stalemate or a retreat, but wouldn't you expect that, what with one being a heavily armoured behemoth and the other a small, nimble attack ship? It's actually technically possible for the frigate to win the fight*. (Although this isn't the same thing, I once in a fit of boredom attempted a level 4 mission (usually the sort you'd do in a battleship) in a frigate - and not only that, a Tech 1 frigate, the kind that you'd these days be able to jump into in your first day or week of play. It took a while to down the various battleships, admittedly, and I had to be careful about what I was doing, obviously making my speed and manoeuvrability key assets, but I downed them all in the end. If you had an absolute klutz of a pilot in the battleship who wasn't equipped properly, you could do the same. If you know what you're doing, that is, which is what takes longer than anything else for some (some seem never really to 'get' it at all, and they're fair game whatever they're flying and however long they've been in the game).

I want a situation where two or three X-Wings can knock out a Star Destroyer a system at a time, eventually blowing it away through teamwork - if the Star Destroyer player is actually a bit crap, but has just been grinding longer.

But that's exactly what you do in Eve. Even in old Apple Corp, we did over some top ranked, massively well-equipped, super-expensive ships whilst flying inferior craft by dint of good teamwork, tactics, and (it has to be said) sheer bloody-minded ruthlessness and guile. The idea of getting a few cheap ships together to down huge opponents is the essence of many a corp, most well known of which would be the Goons in their earlier days. Obviously, you can't expect to just jump into the first piece of shit you start the game with and fly into zero space looking for, and expecting to win, a scrap - but surely no-one would want that? It is an MMORPG after all, and skills, experience and, yes, kit, are a factor. But moreso the intelligence necessary to use them properly and to pick your fights correctly.

It sounds like you're describing another MMO altogether here. You're certainly not describing Eve. It may have its own problems, but not being able to beat the big/expensively-equipped/veteran guys certainly, absolutely, isn't one of them. You just have to be better than them. Whatever that takes.

On the subject of this new Bioware offering, it sounds more like WoW than some sort of (actual) warzone. Which is a great shame.

* Although this misses the point slightly. Eve's a social, societal game. You are supposed to have colleagues. The pilot of a battleship attacked by a frigate would first think "fuck, where's his backup?" before committing to a fight. It's rarely one-on-one, and tactical and environmental awareness are key skills in Eve that any amount of time and 'grinding' won't teach you, just experience (not EXP) and a fully-functioning central nervous system. So anyway, yeah, unless I was sure of what was going on, the first thing I'd consider doing as the battleship pilot would be warping the hell out of there before I get my warp drive scrambled shortly followed by the arrival of the frigate pilot's three colleagues through the nearest stargate.

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my Rifter (crappy tech 1 frigate)

Hey! Less of that. (Nice shooting though, Tex.)

It's the Rifter I chose for my BS-slaying level 4 mission stuff, as well as just about anything calling for a frigate in zero space combat. It's a lovely, lovely, lovely ship.

*sigh*

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I still can't get past the 'Sith offering a truce' thing.

Could just be the Sith up to shenanigans again. After all, Palpatine was all about "peace". Perhaps we work towards the a war again within the story, as you'd expect from something BioWare do.

As a total and utter aside, as I don't think we have a thread for it and we appear to have Star Wars fans here, SWGemu might launch this year. They appear to be making excellent progress, anyway.

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I trust Bioware totally, i'm a huge star wars fan and i hate it when new people come along and fuck with already existing story totally screwing with continuity but i trust Bioware to do the right thing.

I'm really hoping that it's PVP heavy and i will opt for the OPVP/RP if given the option, knowing Bioware the peace thing could be an early part of the game, they keep talking about story and how they can progress it. Why not have peace at the start of the game and as you get further in the war breaks out for you and Jedi/Sith are fair game. This could actually be the first MMO that actually does proper story telling mechanic throughout the game rather than hitting max level and nothing happening until the next expansion.

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  • 1 month later...

Take with the usual pinch of salt but here is a supposed inside look someone's managed to sneak.

Below Im posting an inside view of The Old Republic based on an inside source. And no I didnt have to dumpster dive this time to get this info rofl.

Oh and before the flame wars begin, lets not forget I was dead on correct when I said Bioware was making a Star Wars theme MMO. And this was despite Bioware and LA both stating for a fact that this would not be a Star Wars MMO.

This is going to be long and so I'll do my best to organize what I know as best I can.

Many MMO's start out as an idea. Developers formulate a basic concept and then workshop ideas. A basic blueprint is written up and a budget is estimated. Then work begins. At this point some of the larger MMO dev houses present their blueprint to a marketing team. The team will do research to determine what kind f projected revenue they can expect and if the game will reach an intended target. Ideas are given back to the development team who may or may not revise their blueprint.

I describe this as whats normally done within a development of an MMO. I mention this because TOR didnt start in this traditional sense.

TOR was born from a business model. This business model was handed over to developers who were then asked to design a game around it. What was this business model you ask, it was a book.

This book was written by Lucas Arts and inspired by KOTOR and its success. I dont know the origins of when and why it was done but this book is the framework for TOR.

The game has been designed to play like a virtual book. Each chapter will have alternate endings based on which dialog you chose in the quests. The goal is to make the game replayable and new each time you start over.

Each chapter has roughly the same content as a KOTOR game. And there are several chapters so the game does have a ton of content.

The game is heavily instanced. If you have ever played Lord of the Rings Online, its similiar to the beginning quest sequence and some of the books. You will literally watch a story unfold in front of you in your own little world. There are several cinematic scenes in the game.

Its definitely NOT open. There are no giant worlds you can freely explore. Its sort of like Guild Wars or a variation of Age of Conan. No player cities and no housing.

There is no space content so if your hoping for a JTL in TOR you better look elsewhere. There is a few quests involving boarding a ship but you arent going to fly around in an X-Wing doing missions.

The story evolves. Think Books in Lord of the Rings. They plan on adding new chapters to the story. Here is the catch, you will likely have to pay for each new chapter. Its not really an expansion, so its more like buying some additional quests.

There are classes in the game but not in the traditional MMO sense. There isnt a tank class or a healing class really. Each class can dps and has some healing abilities.

Each class will start on its own planet and will have a unique series of quests to start the game. Once you leave the planet, the quests will be mostly the same as other classes but the dialog is unique to each class. Of course there are different possibilities based on the dialog you choose. Also cinematic sequences will be different depending on class.

You can solo through the entire game. Not to say there arent group quests, there are but you can skip them.

If you dont like questing, this game isnt for you. There really is no other means to play the game.

There is no non-combat class.

There is a limit to the number of companions you can have. And in a group you cant have two of the same companions out at the same time. Also you can only have one companion out at a time.

Crafting is very basic. You craft your own lightsaber. There is no weapons crafting or armor crafting of any kind. There are some quests that require you to do some basic crafting like fixing a shield generator or fixing a droid. There are some modifications you can add to your gear. But you arent going to make your own gear.

There is currency and you can buy consumables like health pots. There will be a standard auction house.

Its definitely a PvE focused game. PvP will be limited to duels at this point. There are no raids, at least not in the traditional sense where 25 people go into a dungeon like in WoW.

combat is classic rpg with a toolbar and specials with cooldowns.

Bioware wont support addons and apparently it will be considered an exploit to use one. No idea why.

The game currently is in full alpha test mode.

To summarize the game, its not really an MMO in the traditional sense. Some people are going to be upset by the design. Others like KOTOR fans will absolutely love this game. Oh and there will definitely be RMT plus a subscription fee.

*If* true, then it sounds a lot more like the single player experience a lot of people originally wanted from a new KotOR is there but with other players if you want it. The lukewarm water between the fire of an MMO and ice of a single player RPG, if you will. The space and planet exploration thing would be disappointing but not at all surprising.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

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I think part of me just died reading that, it doesn't make any sense, Sith - Jedi and no PVP. I don't get it, if their is no raid end game or pvp then why would you continue to pay and play. If their is no crafting their'll be no economy, please don't make this some super MMO-lite where it plays more like a single player game just with other people around.

I'll take it with a pinch of salt but i'm really hoping that isn't true.

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It sounds like some fanboy's demented idea of the ideal KOTOR game. It's based on some mysterious "book" that Lucasarts have apparently written - an interactive book where each chapter is as big as KOTOR 1 or 2, with multiple endings for each. Chinny reckon.

In fact, it sounds like a bunch of kids dreaming up their perfect game - stupid amounts of content, and no original ideas.

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I don't think there's anything up there that goes against what we've seen or heard about the game, and I definitely hope it's all true. Way more single player focused than we thought is a good thing for a game and world so story-based. A monthly fee would be a bit shit though.

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Sounds like Hellgate: London with a better storyline to me. Got no opinion on whether that's a good thing or not, will depend entirely on the game. I got most of my enjoyment in H:L from finding silly terrain glitches.

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I don't think there's anything up there that goes against what we've seen or heard about the game, and I definitely hope it's all true. Way more single player focused than we thought is a good thing for a game and world so story-based. A monthly fee would be a bit shit though.

I don't know - a monthly fee for a megahuge co-op Knights of the Old Republic doesn't sound too bad to me.

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Well after reading this interview

http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/starwarstheo...topslot;thumb;2

I think the insider thing looks like it could most certainly be true, a single player RPG on a server with many other people playing there own single player experience that you can group up with. I don't think it's really going to be a true MMO, the way they talk about it sounds more like a single player game that you pay a monthly sub for.

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a single player RPG on a server with many other people playing there own single player experience that you can group up with.

That sounds a lot like Guild Wars (which is a good thing).

But the monthly fee still rubs me the wrong way :/

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Sounds pretty good to me, a Kotor sequel with an online component. Who needs another Wow clone anyway? Bioware tell good stories, and I'd rather experience that than kill 10 swamprats over and over for hundreds of hours.

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Well after reading this interview

http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/starwarstheo...topslot;thumb;2

I think the insider thing looks like it could most certainly be true, a single player RPG on a server with many other people playing there own single player experience that you can group up with. I don't think it's really going to be a true MMO, the way they talk about it sounds more like a single player game that you pay a monthly sub for.

Conversely, thank God Bioware for not accepting the dogma that to be an MMO a game requires a persistent world, not giving us ANOTHER WoW clone and accepting that Star Wars is about small parties of people going up against incredible odds - not shitloads of cunts in the unavoidable overworld all playing as Jedi and Bounty Hunters.

Sounds a bit like Guild Wars. Great. Guild Wars IS an MMO and this will be one too.

The only issue I have is with Guild Wars already existing, and being free, how does this justify the fees?

Phantasy Star Wars Online, then?

Sign me the fuck up.

Totally.

Sounds pretty good to me, a Kotor sequel with an online component. Who needs another Wow clone anyway? Bioware tell good stories, and I'd rather experience that than kill 10 swamprats over and over for hundreds of hours.

Ditto.

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The only issue I have is with Guild Wars already existing, and being free, how does this justify the fees?

I'm not sure about justifying it, but I imagine that they're relying on the twin perks of it apparently telling a Bioware-single-player-RPG-quality story, and it being Star Worz to sell it. I do wonder about the endgame though.*

*as in, I'm curious how the intend to keep people playing beyond the end of the story. I'm worried they just intend to pad out the story with standard MMO giganto-grinds, which would completely put me off the game. I'm hoping they instead have some standard MMO 'who can get the shiniest skills/hat/lightsabre' endgame content for me to happily ignore, enabling me to play the game for a month, finish it to my satisfaction, then never return to it until I fancy trying a different story, a la KOTOR. Which, I fear, is precisely why I doubt the latter choice, and expect the former - more moneyz, like. Still, curious to see how it works out.

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I'm not sure about justifying it, but I imagine that they're relying on the twin perks of it apparently telling a Bioware-single-player-RPG-quality story, and it being Star Worz to sell it. I do wonder about the endgame though.*

*as in, I'm curious how the intend to keep people playing beyond the end of the story. I'm worried they just intend to pad out the story with standard MMO giganto-grinds, which would completely put me off the game. I'm hoping they instead have some standard MMO 'who can get the shiniest skills/hat/lightsabre' endgame content for me to happily ignore, enabling me to play the game for a month, finish it to my satisfaction, then never return to it until I fancy trying a different story, a la KOTOR. Which, I fear, is precisely why I doubt the latter choice, and expect the former - more moneyz, like. Still, curious to see how it works out.

Well, Guild Wars did it by releasing new chapters to the story as paid-for expansions. Perhaps the gameplay is episodal?

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Aye, they've said it will be. But, as they (unlike Guild Wars) are charging a monthly rate, they have more of a reason to try and keep people bashing away between updates, rather than just playing in short bursts with breaks inbetween.

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