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Here's to Louis Theroux!


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The one base line that they all seem to have in common is that they were all or are 'gamers' and have amassed a small fortune from streaming/gaming etc. What I find fascinating is that at some point we've all encountered what appear to be lunatics spouting racist bullshit and hate online and you kind of walk away from it going 'well I'm certain that not like that in real life?!?'

 

And the tragic answer is that they really are, and they have so many platforms to spout their shit to whatever audience they can find. So here's to the south african chap that threatened to burn my house down after a fruity encounter in gt sport a few years ago, he probably did go an burn someone's house down.

 

 

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1 hour ago, marsh said:

The one base line that they all seem to have in common is that they were all or are 'gamers' and have amassed a small fortune from streaming/gaming etc. What I find fascinating is that at some point we've all encountered what appear to be lunatics spouting racist bullshit and hate online and you kind of walk away from it going 'well I'm certain that not like that in real life?!?'

 

And the tragic answer is that they really are, and they have so many platforms to spout their shit to whatever audience they can find. So here's to the south african chap that threatened to burn my house down after a fruity encounter in gt sport a few years ago, he probably did go an burn someone's house down.

 

I could write an essay on this shit. At one point I was earning around minimum wage from Twitch and that was with banning SO MANY FUCKING PEOPLE but I loved it and kinda tried my best to block out all of the horrid people. It's impossible. So many other streamers wanted to collaborate to help us both but 9/10 times I'd look into them and they would be saying some awful shit - most of the time it was light incel gibberish against women so casually as if it was nothing. I'm not exactly Mr PC myself - In my chat I'd tolerate stupidity, off topic etc so long as people were happy but bullying or things that go against my morals (so basically whatever was big in Twitch memes because they rarely come from a good place) would be one warning and an instaban if repeated unless it was really nasty stuff when I'd just ban them. You have no idea how many threats on my life I got for that or how many overjoyed messages hoping I'd die I got when I told people I couldn't stream anymore last year.

 

I genuinely think Twitch/streaming is at least 75% occupied by toxic scum; both viewers and streamers. Can't wait to watch this later. Love Louis.

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That was good Louis, but really frustrating and depressing. I don't really understand why they never really own their views - they're so hateful already, I'm surprised the nazi salute was so confrontational for the bearded troll  ('a surprisingly think-skinned troll' or something like that).

 

I'd never heard of the Fuentes guy but he does seem dangerously 'professional' (for want of a better word) at what he does.

 

The Guardian review wonders if even giving them any air time, even though Louis did a good job of challenging them, is more harmful overall: https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/feb/13/louis-therouxs-forbidden-america-review-a-terrifying-meeting-with-the-new-far-right

 

Quote

Ever since Theroux in effect made the Westboro Baptist Church famous – on his most recent visit, he met people who had been prompted to join the notoriously and aggressively homophobic sect after they saw his documentary about it – the question of whether he (or anyone) should be drawing attention to extremists and potentially giving them access to new audiences has been particularly pertinent. For my money, in the case of the far-right movement (or the rise of neo-fascism, or whatever else you want to call it, depending on how gay your agenda is, I suppose), increasing general public awareness of how it’s gaining ground – and Theroux gave more context and analysis to his interviewees’ practices than usual here – and how far it has got, is likely to do more good than harm. But maybe “likely” is doing too much work there.

 

I don't necessarily agree that a Louis Theroux documentary itself will earn them new followers, but I can only imagine all those people are posting reaction videos today and using it to show how biased the mainstream media is, and stirring up their following and maybe it legitimizes them in a way ("Even the BBC want to knock Fuentes/keep the white man down").

 

It's interesting to compare to the Rogan scenario where he gets a knock for not challenging on his platform, but there's an argument to say that no platform should be given at all, no matter how critical it is.

 

Seems a bit "damned if you do and damned if you don't".

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I'm surprised there hasn't been a documentary, from anyone, on prank donations yet? It's lightly touched on here but I feel like that's a whole documentary in itself. Though I have no idea on how to expand it beyond 'Look at what these berks are doing! How low will they go eh?!"

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I’m not convinced Theroux is massively gaining anyone additional followers. It’s happening already and if anyone watches that documentary and thinks Louis holds the incorrect viewpoint then most were probably lost already. 
 

That beardy guy talking about the female streamer was horrendous and I felt a little sorry for her. I felt like she had perhaps seen what they were really about but couldn’t completely detach as her social identity and life were wrapped up in the same sphere. I think she said she got hooked into all the streaming stuff because she didn’t have any friends - she was perhaps already marginalised at that point.

 

Depressing. 

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On 14/02/2022 at 22:41, iknowgungfu said:

I’m not convinced Theroux is massively gaining anyone additional followers. It’s happening already and if anyone watches that documentary and thinks Louis holds the incorrect viewpoint then most were probably lost already. 
 

That beardy guy talking about the female streamer was horrendous and I felt a little sorry for her. I felt like she had perhaps seen what they were really about but couldn’t completely detach as her social identity and life were wrapped up in the same sphere. I think she said she got hooked into all the streaming stuff because she didn’t have any friends - she was perhaps already marginalised at that point.

 

Depressing. 

Brittany Venti is no victim or idiot, its' the only time I feel Louis dropped the ball but she can try to rewrite history but she's not a nice person at all. She's cleaning her act because $$$ and apparently who knew being associated with Nazis is a bad look.

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Oh god, that was so stressful. I feel like I need a shower after that, or to spend some time in the company of kinder, more generous people, like the Westboro Baptists for example. 

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It's terrifying and I have no idea how to deal with it. When I discovered the DJ sets of Solarstone on Twitch and YouTube they became a staple part of the week in much the same way that EastEnders is appointment viewing for my mum.  It's brilliant that one guy, from his recording studio in Wales, can set up a camera and broadcast to the world, despite Twitch often silencing the broadcast for copyright reasons.  But the same wonderful technology allows anyone with a camera to make whatever they want to, good or bad, and Twitch doesn't seem as eager to silence hate speech as they are to silence copyrighted 90s trance music. 

 

The scariest part is that it's all brand new to humankind.  We've never had the ability to make our voices heard on such a grand scale before.  But, much as I'd hate it for the internet to be censored or silenced, something has to be done because it doesn't matter how appalling your views are, on a worldwide platform you're going to find enough people who agree with you to make it worthwhile carrying on.  There's always been crazies, but they've never had the opportunity to be heard and get together so easily before.  The internet is an incredible achievement and has opened my eyes to a lot of new Trance music artists.  I'm glad my interests are slick beatz, reverb, cut off and resonance dials, not machine guns and bad politics. I'm happy to have discovered this new music I never set off looking for.  But if my interests were guns, ammo and revolution  I have no idea where the internet could take me.

 

I feel these movements will make events like the Capitol Building Seige the first of many, as the wrong message spreads and grows to that disenfranchised, angry demographic that doesn't trust the mainstream.

 

The one hopeful is that these movements have always collapsed or gone away and come back in another form, rather than continuing to grow.  Many Trump supporters regret their beliefs now, but will be sucked into the next thing that comes along, where 90s Trance music will never die.

 

As abhorrent as the people in the Louis Theroux show are, they don't appear to get it mainstream, they bubble under the radar then get deplatformed and someone else takes their place. This seems to keep things at a constant lower level, unlike 90s trance music which is more popular now than it was then.  The worry is that the internet's unlimited reach means at some point this message will be mainstream. It doesn't help that there seems a genuine basis to some of the grievances these people have (Marcus Rashford seems to be achieving more than any current politician) and if people like Prince Andrew (and now Charles) keep getting away with it, more fuel to the fire. 

 

And when I think of that fire, it makes me think of "Keep the Fires Burning" by Clock.  Primarily led by Stu Allan and Pete Pritchard, Clock were a UK based dance band fronted by rapper Marcus Thomas (using the name ODC MC) and vocalist Lorna Saunders (using the name Tinka). "Keep the Fires Burning" was sung by Georgia Lewis though, and it's important to know this as the song is quite different in tone. Clock resembled many Eurodance acts of the time with a female singer and male rapper. Their earlier work was harder, similar to Cappella, but once they started releasing covers, their sound became more dance/pop oriented. Thomas left in 1998 to join the band Tzant, to be replaced by Ché-gun Peters.

 

 

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For trolls they were surprisingly defensive. Every time he questioned them they immediately resorted to "you're gay/ a retard/ piece of shit", literally no attempt to have an intelligent debate. 

 

Nicholas was a great speaker, it's just a shame that he spoke about the things he did. I googled him and apparently he's Hispanic/ Italian :rolleyes:

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I’m looking forward to the rap one tomorrow. We might get the next verses in Louis’ classic “my money doesn’t jiggle, it folds…”. I’m expecting a bit more camaraderie between Louis and his subjects at least.  

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Likewise, I’m looking forward to the next two episodes. I understand the need to cover the darker subjects like last week’s, and rap and porn both have potential to be fairly grim topics, but they also are likely to offer more offbeat stories.

 

Not quite light relief, but hopefully won’t go to bed afterwards despairing at the world.

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39 minutes ago, marsh said:

Potentially more of a concern than last week, as these stars are 'well armed' just seems they have a fairly short life expectancy...

 

Another challenging watch.

 

Yeah it's hard going. And also reminds me I'm old as fuck. 

 

Is this the kind of rap that's popular with the kids? It's terrible. 

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This one appears like an old tale - a real life Clockwork Orange. They are just kids really - if they escape being shot, killed or imprisoned then they will get older and realise it's all a load of bollocks.

 

As for the music, it's problem to me is that it's very similar sounding cut and paste musicianship that it's impossible to discern a difference, to this old codgers ears anyway. What happened to all the good producers?

 

I'd love to know what Louis thinks of the music and the message deep down, he's professed before that he is a hip hop/rap fan from the pre-millennium days.

 

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I didn't get into it as much as I expected - I have no understanding of the music, but had a similar reaction to others i.e. I am old and no-one expects me to get it but yeah, hard pass on looking up any of the music featured.

 

It was similar to the time he met the rappers years ago, in that the art form still carries a lot of associated risk with the lifestyle. This one had an additional drug/addiction element along with the gun violence, and maybe the average participant was much younger than back then. He definitely wasn't speaking to anyone's parents last time out. We got some Louis mumble-rap which will not be up there with his classic hits. (I watched the Chicken Shop Date episode that @ravonmentioned - wasn't expecting it to be so short but it was good). Anyway, I don't know if anything Louis covered is really that new. This sort of Florida rap nutter was doing similar things 7 years ago (video is age restricted so won't embed).

 

I don't know if this is intentional or just in my head but he's covering classic Louis ground (extremists, rap, porn) where the participants are getting younger and the culture has been significantly changed/disrupted/made more extreme by the internet. I'm now expecting next week to be about a younger cohort getting into OnlyFans and maybe a look into the prescription drug abuse in the background caused by the alienation of the career or something. Probably not though if that sounds interesting, Jon Ronson did a good version of some of this in a podcast series in recent years (the one before 'Last Days of August', called 'The Butterfly Effect').

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Just watched the first one. Nothing I didn’t already know really. I still think Louis is the best at disarming people. He clearly found this pretty hard but still managed to maintain his demeanour 99% and as such I think got us a glimpse of the reality behind these losers. 
 

They all looked like slightly broken and confused kids at times. I think if they were genuinely confronted by the repercussions  of their actions (or by a genuine violent neo nazi for that matter) they would shit themselves. Shame there’s no money or algorithm engagement in being nice. 

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I watched the first episode, and I'm unconvinced that the need to expose this kind of thinking outweighs the harm done by giving it more airtime. There were a couple of bits where Louis said something like "Why have these kind of fringe views suddenly acquired a kind of mainstream respectability?" and it's hard not to say "because people like you keep making documentaries about them Louis, like this one that's being aired on prime-time on BBC1". I feel like there's a certain arrogance behind this kind of doc, where the people who make them think that they can really settle the issue of whether racism is bad.

 

Maybe it's a result of the fact that I know a fair bit about the far right, but I didn't learn much from the programme. I note that Louis confronted a couple of his interviewees, but I felt that was like shooting fish in a barrel - the Beardy McBeardface guy seemed like a minor figure, and came across as being a bit thick and insecure, and Baked Alaska is notoriously as thick as pigshit, so I'm not sure what benefit really came from those encounters. There was no climactic confrontation with Nick Fuentes, who comes across as the most politically astute and the person who could do the most harm, so presumably he either didn't try or Fuentes got the better of him. It was interesting, but I would question whether it's really worth Louis or the BBC's time and resources to track down a loser like that Beardy guy, and try and discredit him, as he seemed like he didn't have any credibility anyway.

 

It feels unfair to compare him with Jon Ronson, but Ronson seems to find stories and people and insights that I'd never heard of. This series - the far-right, rap, and porn - feels like Louis revisiting old territory, with not much new to discover.

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3 hours ago, K said:

I watched the first episode, and I'm unconvinced that the need to expose this kind of thinking outweighs the harm done by giving it more airtime. There were a couple of bits where Louis said something like "Why have these kind of fringe views suddenly acquired a kind of mainstream respectability?" and it's hard not to say "because people like you keep making documentaries about them Louis, like this one that's being aired on prime-time on BBC1". I feel like there's a certain arrogance behind this kind of doc, where the people who make them think that they can really settle the issue of whether racism is bad.

 

Maybe it's a result of the fact that I know a fair bit about the far right, but I didn't learn much from the programme. I note that Louis confronted a couple of his interviewees, but I felt that was like shooting fish in a barrel - the Beardy McBeardface guy seemed like a minor figure, and came across as being a bit thick and insecure, and Baked Alaska is notoriously as thick as pigshit, so I'm not sure what benefit really came from those encounters. There was no climactic confrontation with Nick Fuentes, who comes across as the most politically astute and the person who could do the most harm, so presumably he either didn't try or Fuentes got the better of him. It was interesting, but I would question whether it's really worth Louis or the BBC's time and resources to track down a loser like that Beardy guy, and try and discredit him, as he seemed like he didn't have any credibility anyway.

 

It feels unfair to compare him with Jon Ronson, but Ronson seems to find stories and people and insights that I'd never heard of. This series - the far-right, rap, and porn - feels like Louis revisiting old territory, with not much new to discover.

I agree he’s re-treading old ground but there’s clearly been an evolution which is interesting to see. I mean, I know things have changed but seeing the ages of the participants as well as their methodologies and being familiar with LT’s previous stuff the sharp contrast brings home quite hard how things have changed. 
 

I also think that there are plenty of people out there (e.g. my wife) who aren’t as familiar with this stuff who will find it quite shocking. It reminds parents perhaps that we need to make sure our kids aren’t being sucked into this type of vortex. That they’re educated and aware that this stuff is damaging and dangerous. So from that perspective, it serves a possibly excellent purpose. 

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