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Demon's Souls - remake's OUT - mindful of the spoilers, please!


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Demon's is by far the most straightforward and cheesable, but the posturing tone is a little bit silly. I finished it on SL45 and took down almost every boss first go, including ME and OKA, but I wouldn't claim that it's without challenge. It requires much more patience and awareness than most games, and there are definitely some serious spikes. 

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45 minutes ago, Minion said:

@CrichStand you should play Bloodborne or Dark Souls 3 next, the standard grunts in those games all have different movesets so you can't just breeze through levels easily twatting drones like in Demons Souls, it's a fair criticism but try out the 2 best Soulsborne games if you think Demons is too easy.

 
Yeah, I’ve played up to the boss fight in a chapel on Bloodborne and up to Undead Settlement on Dark Souls 3. Both seemed significantly harder than Demon’s Souls as did the first Dark Souls, which I played up to the Gargoyles boss fight. Might jump straight into either 3 or Bloodborne and see how I fair now, given the knowledge I’ve picked up playing this.

 

20 minutes ago, Marlew said:

Demon's is by far the most straightforward and cheesable, but the posturing tone is a little bit silly. I finished it on SL45 and took down almost every boss first go, including ME and OKA, but I wouldn't claim that it's without challenge. It requires much more patience and awareness than most games, and there are definitely some serious spikes. 

 

There’s no posturing tone! Just voicing my opinion. I haven’t said the game is without challenge! Just that I’ve found it to be a fairly easy game for the most part, especially when considering all the hype surrounding it’s supposed difficulty. I’ve also stated that the further you get into it, the easier it becomes, to the point where there’s been no challenge for me late game and so some of it has felt slightly underwhelming. I’ve also mentioned how I think some of its “difficulty” maybe comes from frustrating trial and error sections, irritating boss runs, it’s oppressive atmosphere, a need for knowledge that’s not contained within the game itself and at times how sadistic it can be.
 

Just interested to see what other people found so difficult in it. Maybe it could be how they approach and play it, more than the games actual difficulty level? Maybe it could be their character build? Maybe it’s the bosses? Maybe it’s having to start levels from the beginning each time you die? 

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@CrichStand Fair enough, no hard feelings. The difficulty isn't what's interesting or valuable about these games but I totally understand that the reputation precedes, so that's something you've focused on. It's clearly clicked with you straight away but I think most newcomers would find it pretty tough. 

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People thought it was difficult mostly because you're not allowed to level up until you beat the first boss, to get to which involves fighting a lot of basic enemies that can kill you in a few hits, hide round corners, throw bombs from platforms above and behind you and refuse to wait patiently one by one to attack you, precarious ledges and walkways that don't have invisible walls to stop you falling off, a knight down one corridor who can one-shot you, a dragon who burns an entire bridge when you set foot on it, and enemies who stab at you from behind a shield that your weapon bounces off, all of this without a map or waypoint marker or explanation and almost certainly with half a health bar.

You could also have chosen a character who has a slow roll, or a shield that doesn't block 100% of damage, or who doesn't have any armour at all.

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20 hours ago, wretcherd said:

People thought it was difficult mostly because you're not allowed to level up until you beat the first boss, to get to which involves fighting a lot of basic enemies that can kill you in a few hits, hide round corners, throw bombs from platforms above and behind you and refuse to wait patiently one by one to attack you, precarious ledges and walkways that don't have invisible walls to stop you falling off, a knight down one corridor who can one-shot you, a dragon who burns an entire bridge when you set foot on it, and enemies who stab at you from behind a shield that your weapon bounces off, all of this without a map or waypoint marker or explanation and almost certainly with half a health bar.

You could also have chosen a character who has a slow roll, or a shield that doesn't block 100% of damage, or who doesn't have any armour at all.


Makes me think back to the 10 hours or whatever it took me to get through the Undead Burgh and Parish in Dark Souls 1 :blush: 
 

A simple 15 minute knock about if I were to play it now, but those first few dozen goes man :wacko:

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1 hour ago, Darwock said:


There’s no pos votes on your posts either, I’ve noticed... ;)

 

And??? Why would anyone be bothered about that? Weird!
 

It’s really strange on here at times.......if you follow the crowd and just agree with the majority, there’s not a problem and everyone has a big love in! However, if you air your own view as an individual that doesn’t fit in with the majority viewpoint, then no matter how credible or valid that view is, you tend to be deemed a “troll” and people attempt to marginalise your opinions or just start throwing insults. It’s pretty odd behaviour.
 

It’s especially weird that certain people seem to be having a problem with my viewpoint, seeing as I’ve actually said, multiple times now, that I think the game is brilliant! I just don’t think it’s a difficult game, because having played it and now completed it, it’s er........not a difficult game! Maybe it’s a generational thing I don’t know. But this is not even a fraction as difficult as most C64 games or something from the 80s that I’d have been playing when I was about 7 yrs old! I’m sure it’s exactly the same for many people on here who grew up playing similar games.
 

Of course, it’s all subjective though. If someone struggles with it and thinks it’s difficult then fair enough. I didn’t and I personally don’t understand what all the fuss is about, especially considering all the hype and focus it got leading up to the PS5 launch. For me personally, it’s no harder than most of the games I’ve played recently, such as Everybody’s Golf, Resogun, WRC9, Assassin’s Creed Valhalla etc. One thing I would add though in terms of the difficulty.......if you played the PS3 version, I can see why it might have got its reputation, as half of the time playing would have been spent sat watching loading screens, which would have been insanely punishing. That’s completely bypassed by the PS5 version though obviously.
 

In many ways, I think the hype around the games difficulty, actually does the game a disservice, as I know a few people who were interested in picking this up, but decided not to, due to its supposed “insane difficulty level”. Having finished it myself, I know for a fact that those people would breeze through it, as they’ve finished stuff like Ninja Gaiden, Bayonetta, DMC3, etc all of which are waaaaay more difficult games to complete than Demon’s Souls.

 

So yeah, I’ve just finished my play through. It’s a brilliant game. The main play mechanics are excellent and there’s a pull to them that’s highly addictive. The level design is fantastic, as is the atmosphere created within each one of them. Some of the levels will definitely be burnt into my gaming mind for all time. It’s graphically sumptuous. It’s audio is best in class, just absolutely stunning. Bluepoint have done an incredible job and put out one of the best launch titles ever made. The fact that this is even a day one PS5 launch title still blows my mind! 
 

That said the game is not without faults. It can be pretty obtuse at times. There’s a fair bit of trial and error gameplay.  It can be cheap and unfair. It can be frustrating and irritating due to some of its design decisions. Some of them could be seen as poor design, some of them probably are but, with hindsight, I feel they can be overlooked in the grand scheme of things. A lot of the boss battles are underwhelming quirky affairs that fall flat, especially towards the end of the game, when any kind of challenge goes completely out of the window. Bizarrely, the last few bosses aren’t even as difficult as the first boss you would encounter on most other games. It leaves the tail end of the game feeling underwhelming. It fizzles out instead of building to the epic conclusion it deserves. The final end boss is an absolute non event and the actual ending itself, sadly falls really flat too. It is what it is though so yeah......
 

Overall, it’s a fantastic game. Probably one too many flaws to be a straight up 10/10 for me, as much as I’d like it to be. I’d say it’s a game rightly hailed as “an all time classic” and one that’s had a much deserved impact and influence on video games in general. It’s easily one of the best launch titles for any system ever released and probably the best remake ever made. It’s that good I might even jump straight back in on New Game+, which is high praise indeed, as it’s something I very rarely do!

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For what it's worth I do agree somewhat. I don't think its difficulty is on par with, say, Kirby, but it's also not the nightmare some make it out to be. The game's design stands in sharp contrast to the more common "accessibility means dumbing down" philosophy during its original release. Not having a tutorial for every mechanic, system, and strategy in the game, meant a lot of trial-and-error reminiscent of 80's game design. Of course, that was the entire point with the intention of having all players communicate solutions to each other by the medium of floor (and wikis). It also meant that most players just rammed themselves into a wall at 100mph.

 

Most of the Soulsborne genre's perceived difficulty lies within the unknown. 1-1 is basically an unfair trial by fire enforcing that method. You don't know anything? This game's going to be hard as hell. You know the game/have access to a wiki? Then it's still a challenge but one that's at least manageable. My least favourite boss in DeS is DG, mainly because... well, it's not hard at all, but its timing just feels off every time I attempt the first bit, making me question my sanity. Always feels like I have no control and it's a roll of the dice whenever I do manage to make it past it.

 

But if you play this genre long enough, you will go full Neo at some point, seeing through the game and perceiving the mechanics for what they are. Right up until the moment you get just a tad too greedy. (F*ck off, FL.) Really, you are your own worst enemy in these games.

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55 minutes ago, CrichStand said:

 

And??? Why would anyone be bothered about that? Weird!
 


It would have been too much of a cliche if I had just asked for negs back. Plus the pos thing echoed the pos of posturing.

 

Quote

It’s especially weird that certain people seem to be having a problem with my viewpoint, seeing as I’ve actually said, multiple times now, that I think the game is brilliant! I just don’t think it’s a difficult game


It’s very much to do with the tone of your posts, as previously mentioned, not the viewpoint itself. You may not think you are bigging yourself up, but to those who have difficulty (of which there have been many, if you read the thread) you very much sound as though you are.

 

edit - also you keep comparing it to DMC, Bayonetta etc - all games which have an easy mode afaik, something that Demon’s Souls doesn’t provide.

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1 hour ago, Darwock said:


It would have been too much of a cliche if I had just asked for negs back. Plus the pos thing echoed the pos of posturing.

 


It’s very much to do with the tone of your posts, as previously mentioned, not the viewpoint itself. You may not think you are bigging yourself up, but to those who have difficulty (of which there have been many, if you read the thread) you very much sound as though you are.

 

edit - also you keep comparing it to DMC, Bayonetta etc - all games which have an easy mode afaik, something that Demon’s Souls doesn’t provide.


The tone of my posts? You mean the perception you have of my posts! If I say “I’m not bigging myself up” then I’m not bigging myself up! If you ignore that and choose to make up your own crossword puzzle then, that’s up to you! Not really sure how you would get that I’m bragging from my posts anyway? I’m bragging about finishing a normal difficulty game? Surely the people claiming this is the hardest game ever and that they’ve finished it would be bragging, no? Plus, quite a few people in the thread have agreed with me anyway that, this game isn’t as hard as it’s made out to be.

 

Just to be clear, I mentioned Ninja Gaiden and DMC3 because they have similar mechanics, boss battles etc, and also have a reputation for being difficult games. This new version of Demon’s Souls feels very similar to them in terms of character movement etc IMO. It’s very fluid feeling.

 

Saying those games have an Easy mode is a moot point because, I’m talking about the game being played as standard. Obviously doing an SL1 run on Demon’s Souls would be way more difficult, and take far more skill, than playing the game as it’s essentially intended to be played.
 

As I’ve already pointed out though, if you’re struggling on Demon’s Souls, you can level up your character and gear and basically just walk through pretty much everything with ease. You can’t do that with games like DMC, Ninja Gaiden, Trials no matter what difficulty you’re playing on etc. It’s just purely your skills against the game.

 

Anyway, jumped back into Dark Souls 3 to see how it compares. Right away it’s clear it’s about a billion times harder than PS5 Demon’s Souls. It feels really janky in comparison. Movement doesn’t feel fluid and that’s running at 60fps on PS5. No wonder I stopped playing on PS4 at 30fps! Character has dual blades and just like DeS I was evading instead of blocking and parrying. Within about a minute, I’d encountered an enemy that was way out my league which I had to avoid and run away from before I was rushed by about 5 enemies all at once in an enclosed area..........and I was dead. I remember the boss I got to, which is just past that section seemed almost impossible when I played it a few months back. I stopped playing as I had so many other games to be getting on with and it just didn’t feel like fun.

 

Think I’m just going to take a break for a bit, play some other stuff then do a new game+ on this.
 

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So much for having a break........played through the first level again already! Lol. Got invaded a few times and had some really fun close fights! Just wondering........what is the difference with new game+?  I seem to be able to one shot most of the enemies so far. Is everything just the same as your first play through or are there more powerful enemies, extra enemies etc?

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Anyone else gone with a dex build? I got my Uchi up to Sharp+5 but it took forever to farm for all the Bladestone Chunks. Not sure what Bluepoint have done but Bladestone Chunks are nearly as rare as Pure Bladestone, one of the rarest drops in the game. Put it this way, I now have 4 spare Pure Bladestone so if anyone is short do let me know.

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1 hour ago, CrichStand said:

So much for having a break........played through the first level again already! Lol. Got invaded a few times and had some really fun close fights! Just wondering........what is the difference with new game+?  I seem to be able to one shot most of the enemies so far. Is everything just the same as your first play through or are there more powerful enemies, extra enemies etc?

 

NG+ itself is pretty much the same in terms of content but a lot of the mid to late enemies do far more damage than they used and getting one shot by some of them in a quick flurry of attacks is not unheard of. I think most players roll into NG+ around level 60ish; if you're quite a bit higher than that soul level yourself, you might not have too much trouble early on.

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Demon souls remake was the first of these games I played through to completion. Once it clicks it turns into a bit of a breeze and I didn’t find it as hard as i was initially led to believe. That being said I nearly gave up early in the game when I decided to go straight to the Tower Knight after the first boss. 
 

Since completing I have been completely hooked on these types of games, playing through Bloodborne straight after. The change of pace and how you play in that one definitely added to the challenge considering I played a bit of a tank character in Demon Souls. Just about to finish the main game in Darl Souls 3 and have completely loved it too.

 

Bloodborne is pipping it for me in my favourite so far but you really couldn’t go wrong with Dark Souls 3 or Bloodborne next. 

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49 minutes ago, Sie said:

 

NG+ itself is pretty much same in terms of content but a lot of the mid to late enemies do far more damage than they used and getting one shot by some of them by a quick flurry of attacks is not unheard of. I think most players roll into NG+ around level 60ish; if you're quite a bit higher than that soul level yourself, you might not have too much trouble early on.


Ah, nice one! Thanks for the info! Think I was Lv79 when I finished my run through. Up to about lv84 now. Did Phalanx then headed back to 4-1 and took out Adjudicator so that I could farm some souls at the beginning of 4-2. Going to max my character out as much as possible. Then did the Makoto quest or whatever. Wonder if I messed it up, as I’d equipped the weapon to test it and the dude just went nuts. I exited the level as I didn’t want to kill him in case it turned the level back to Black Tendency. Went back in and he’d vanished. Fuck’s sake!
 

Not sure if it’s my imagination but it seems like the A.I is different. More aggressive and uses different moves. Also noticed some of the enemies definitely soak up a few more hits on 2-1. Been invaded quite a bit now which never seemed to happen on the first play through. Really good fun! Is there any benefit/punishment to invasions outside of returning to human form or losing human form?

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42 minutes ago, kris_doe said:

Demon souls remake was the first of these games I played through to completion. Once it clicks it turns into a bit of a breeze and I didn’t find it as hard as i was initially led to believe. That being said I nearly gave up early in the game when I decided to go straight to the Tower Knight after the first boss. 
 

Since completing I have been completely hooked on these types of games, playing through Bloodborne straight after. The change of pace and how you play in that one definitely added to the challenge considering I played a bit of a tank character in Demon Souls. Just about to finish the main game in Darl Souls 3 and have completely loved it too.

 

Bloodborne is pipping it for me in my favourite so far but you really couldn’t go wrong with Dark Souls 3 or Bloodborne next. 


Good to hear someone else’s more balanced views on the difficulty level! :) 
 

Yeah, I’m definitely starting to see how addictive these games are. Definitely clicked with this more than the other Souls games. I’d say Tower Knight and Flamelurker were the hardest bosses myself and that the difficulty peaked around the 2nd world for me. Love the way you can now jump back in and zip through the level plus plan a good route to take through the game.

 

Think I need to restart Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne from scratch to get the most out of them. One thing I immediately noticed trying Dark Souls earlier, was the lack of healing items. In Demon’s Souls I’m often carrying around 80+, whereas going back to DS3 I only had 3! 

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2 minutes ago, CrichStand said:


Love the way you can now jump back in and zip through the level plus plan a good route to take through the game.

This is the only downfall about bloodborne. There is so much loading to get between levels, which is incredibly frustrating coming from Demon Souls. Still a great game and I would love to see a sequel with the PS5 capabilities. 

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8 hours ago, Cyhwuhx said:

For what it's worth I do agree somewhat. I don't think its difficulty is on par with, say, Kirby, but it's also not the nightmare some make it out to be. The game's design stands in sharp contrast to the more common "accessibility means dumbing down" philosophy during its original release. Not having a tutorial for every mechanic, system, and strategy in the game, meant a lot of trial-and-error reminiscent of 80's game design. Of course, that was the entire point with the intention of having all players communicate solutions to each other by the medium of floor (and wikis). It also meant that most players just rammed themselves into a wall at 100mph.

 

Most of the Soulsborne genre's perceived difficulty lies within the unknown. 1-1 is basically an unfair trial by fire enforcing that method. You don't know anything? This game's going to be hard as hell. You know the game/have access to a wiki? Then it's still a challenge but one that's at least manageable. My least favourite boss in DeS is DG, mainly because... well, it's not hard at all, but its timing just feels off every time I attempt the first bit, making me question my sanity. Always feels like I have no control and it's a roll of the dice whenever I do manage to make it past it.

 

But if you play this genre long enough, you will go full Neo at some point, seeing through the game and perceiving the mechanics for what they are. Right up until the moment you get just a tad too greedy. (F*ck off, FL.) Really, you are your own worst enemy in these games.


Just wanted to say that I think this is a brilliant post! Absolutely spot on! 

 

2 minutes ago, kris_doe said:

This is the only downfall about bloodborne. There is so much loading to get between levels, which is incredibly frustrating coming from Demon Souls. Still a great game and I would love to see a sequel with the PS5 capabilities. 


Yeah, it’s crazy how much difference quick loading makes especially with games like these. Doubt I’d have had the patience to have made it through the original, purely because of all the loading.
 

It’s also crazy how games we were playing just a few months ago with little to no problem, now can really grate because of how long they take to load, even with optimisation on the new consoles.

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I think you can flick between different worlds when warping with the d-pad or shoulder button or something, meaning you don’t have to go via the Nexus each time, not that I knew this whenever I was playing it myself. This was one of the new QoL improvements seemingly.

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11 hours ago, sid said:

Do you ever have block the ability to warp to other levels without going back to the nexus ?

Spoiler

You need an archdemon soul for that. The same one as to go through the fog  gate behind Tower Knight. 
 

So basically complete one of the other Archstone worlds first. 

 

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Blimey, sat down last night after a short break and decided to get 5-1 done. I recall it being my least favourite world on PS3 so wasn't exactly salivating at the prospect. I'd finished the entire world just under two hours later - definitely easier when knowing how to approach it after multiple Souls titles.

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And done (again, after clearing on PS3 too) - I did some of the endgame stuff but didn’t have the patience to grind for everything.

So, onto NG+!

 

This is a top 5 of all time for me, I prefer it to DS I think.

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Had a go on 4-2 (I think - whichever one ends in the Old Hero boss) after a Christmas timeout where the wife and I have been co-oping Sackboy and a bit of frustration at those flying manta ray assholes.

 

In the end, the boss went down easily. So that was nice. Onwards and upwards!

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