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3 hours ago, HarryBizzle said:

I can't help but think it's much of a muchness. The V60 and Kalita wave have been going up against each other for decades. I don't really see what any of them offer over an immersion brew, really. I watched that James Hoffmann video and he mentioned that an aeropress is non-bypass but didn't really comment on what either of those new brewers offer over it. 

 

Yep, I'm sure it's typical of a lot of bloke centric hobbies that look to sell gear backed by science all the time to improve your game, music quality, fuel consumption etc etc.

 

I think you're right in that pourover is essential cone v flat bed and the difference between a kalita/april/orea etc etc is quite slight. But then again on top of that you've got immersion, filters and it all builds up.

 

I'm fascinated though by the sheer variety of equipment on offer and how the permutations of it spin out into a myriad of brewers.

 

Just out of interest I started looking at that cool mini home roaster Hoffman used the other day in a video (costs around a grand or so), that seems an exercise in driving yourself mad adding green beans into the mix too. 

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I think in one of those podcasts I linked to he talks about roasting science and just how difficult it is. As someone to whom espresso sounds like a headache, home roasting rather than buying from a roaster is like turning down a triple A game because you can make your own in Unity.

 


The beans I took on holiday were from East Timor and I have to say they were fantastic. A washed coffee that had a lot of the complexity I expect from a natural one.

 

Holiday coffee is best coffee.

 

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On 06/06/2022 at 09:52, HarryBizzle said:

On another note, after lots of frustration with coffee whilst travelling, I've just given in and started taking my scales with me and using preground coffee instead of my rubbish handgrinder. I went away last week with those things and my aeropress go and whilst the coffee did get a bit staler over the course of the week, it was still a million times better than awful hotel coffee.

For short trips and going into the office I used to use small individual pots and pre-grind/ weigh out the right amount for 1 brew into each of them.  Currently use systema to go 35ml screw top pots for it but used cheaper 'pop lid' ones in the past too.

 

https://www.johnlewis.com/sistema-to-go-dressing-dips-mini-pots-set-of-4-35ml-multi/p6034873

 

Also this circular 100ml lock&lock container is perfect for aeropress filters, you can get approx a 4cm high stack in it:

 

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Lock-Round-Storage-Container-Clear/dp/B0000AN4CX/?th=1

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I got an Orea brewer a week or so back, it's my first foray into a drip/pourover (I believe there is a difference, if you ever stop the pour the purists insist its a drip method).

 

Takes the kalita wave papers (I got the bigger size brewer which takes the 185ml) but I also got on order their own proprietary flat circular filters and a 3d printed plastic tool that presses it into the brewer tight with no space for bypass water.

 

Been a bit of a revelation so far coming from the Clever - I love the Clever and didn't think my cups were lacking much, but using the Orea with the same ratio & grind is making the coffee taste totally different. Getting so much more out of it than in the immersion Clever, which is surprising me a lot, it's like opening out the beans and really getting some of the taste notes for the first time. 

 

It's very easy for this to become a hobby rather than just making a cup of coffee, I'm not interested in spending fortunes on flat burr end game grinders or the like, but it's amazing how small tweaks to your method in what appears a low tech way massively alter the same pack of beans. Going back to the Clever now it all feels a bit muted in comparison, and reading about extraction I'm seeing that 2-3m of pourover would need half an hour plus via immersion to extract the same amount of material from the grounds.

 

MicrosoftTeams-image_26_540x.jpg?v=16503

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The clever dripper has both full immersion and then the drawdown, which is essentially the filtration you get with a pourover. I would be surprised if you didn't get a broadly similar result by playing with your recipe with the clever (either dose or grind). 

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5 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

The clever dripper has both full immersion and then the drawdown, which is essentially the filtration you get with a pourover. I would be surprised if you didn't get a broadly similar result by playing with your recipe with the clever (either dose or grind). 

 

the biggest difference I've read is time, there is some bloke on one of the coffee forums massively into this and he wraps his clever in a little blanket and brews for 30-40m to get the same extraction levels (his claims) from a V60. You do also get some more bypass in the clever with the ribbed sides and void area under the paper filter. 

 

I'm doing the same ratio and normally brew for 5m in the clever, the Orea is taking around 2.5m but is way more extracted in that time and the caffeine hit is far higher too.

 

I'm not shitting on the Clever, I've loved it for a year now and got us back into proper coffee, just amazed at the difference we're seeing with a small different shaped bit of plastic.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Really bonded with the Orea V3 brewer the last few weeks, don't use the Clever now. I know it's not quite apples/apples comparison as pourover v immersion but getting a cup that shows more of the coffee in the Orea. It's made me now wonder how many coffees I've dismissed previously which I may have liked brewed in it, for example the Pact Zaroca I never drunk before, but my partner liked, but it's now something I love and really getting the chocolate taste.

 

Do love the tour of the world you can go on with the beans, tried 2 new ones this week with a Ugandan Mount Elgon (very bright fruity taste) and Australian Skybury (expensive but very smooth and clean).

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I’m upgrading from my De’longhi bean to cup machine and switching to espressos. 
 

Found a Cafelat Robot for a reasonable price on eBay, with the tamper upgrade. 
 

cafelat-robot-barista-retro-green.jpg
 

Now I need to sort a grinder. Kind of like the idea of sticking with a manual theme so am keeping an eye on refurb/seconds Rok grinders:

 

rok-grinder-gc-front.jpg?v=1558696105
 

But I’ve also seen thoughts here and online about the Niche, so am trying to tell myself I don’t need to spend so much, but then if I get one further down the line anything else is wasted money….

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You in the UK @OnionNon, I'm looking at selling my barely used Robot via a coffee forum (we never drink espresso), got the cream one with the tamper upgrade too). Didn't list here as didn't think there'd be demand for it. Let me know what you've found one for.

 

The Niche is lovely, one of the nicest designed easy to use fit for purpose items I've bought. Grinders are a proper minefield though in terms of youtube 'expert' reviews with people sifting the output to see distribution of particle size in microns etc ! Any question on it ask away as we've got a year in with it now so got some good hands on time.

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It feels like if you were going to go auto, the machine itself would probably be the bigger pain in the backside to use. But a decent hand grinder will probably be like £200-250 anyway, right? Commandante or similar. 
 

If you’re going for a niche I suggest you hurry up as I’m probably going to get one soon and they’ll probably be putting the prices up because of inflation just before I do. 

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@Gotters I didn’t ask here as I assumed nobody would’ve been selling, else I’d have taken yours. I paid £275 for the barista/gauge one as a bit of an impulse, some had sold for less on eBay but some for much more, I guess that’s the trouble with now volume niche stuff. 
 

Any tips? I went with it over the Flair or Rok as I’d read thermal management was less of an issue with the Robot, and I didn’t want the faff of preheating. 

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5 minutes ago, OnionNon said:

@Gotters I didn’t ask here as I assumed nobody would’ve been selling, else I’d have taken yours. I paid £275 for the barista/gauge one as a bit of an impulse, some had sold for less on eBay but some for much more, I guess that’s the trouble with now volume niche stuff. 
 

Any tips? I went with it over the Flair or Rok as I’d read thermal management was less of an issue with the Robot, and I didn’t want the faff of preheating. 

 

Yeah price seems a bit all over the place, that seems at the more reasonable end of the scale.

 

They aren't that fussy to use, though that said I've only put a few shots thru it. I just watched the actual bloke who invented it on youtube pulling shots, he seems very unfussy about how he does it, there is also a James Hoffman review which is quite informative. 

 

The grind is key to getting a good shot so you're other planned purchase will help there !

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18 hours ago, OnionNon said:

So I now have the Robot and a Rok manual grinder. Really impressed with both, and it’s surprisingly straightforward to make a decent espresso. Time to upgrade from supermarket beans now!

I could never fathom even attempting to attempt to pull an espresso using supermarket beans.

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Silly question here. For those who manually grind their own beans - do you keep a small portion of beans separate from your main bag?

 

I have just been given a niche grinder for my 40th and living it so far. However, no hopper as you only add in what you need per dose. Not sure I can be arsed pouring out 18g of beans from my 1kg bag each time I want to pull a shot. 

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I never bother and just weigh out what's needed into the dosing cup each time as I need the scales & timer for my pourover brew anyway.

 

You see on coffee forums people doing all sorts to store pre weighed out beans in screw top test tubes, small spice jars etc. 

 

Some will tell you you're damaging the beans each time you open the bag, oxidisation is the devil blah blah blah. I'm not that taste sensitive I'd say so as long as I rattle thru a bag in 2-3 weeks once opened seems fine to me. 

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A colleague makes espresso and told me that he could taste the difference when he got a Fellow Atmos. I think if I was buying coffee in 1kg bags, which would take me a month to get through, I’d probably give a jar like that a go and keep the rest in the freezer or something. 

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On 13/07/2022 at 14:29, iknowgungfu said:

After posting my question I realised I could just move my big bag into a different cupboard and it would become less of an issue. I was looking for an over-engineered solution to a problem that didn’t really exist. 

I almost always just have 250g bags but after opening them I tip the beans into a standard resealable type container for storage.  I do this for convenience though rather than pursuit of maximum freshness.

Something like:

shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQlgacuCgRkvVO8ypeb4

The above 850ml size is perfect for 250g of beans plus a small scooper

 

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Hello

My anniversary is coming up, my partner and I have decided that rather than get each other things we might not want, we’re going to get ourselves a bean to cup coffee machine.  Having just moved house, we’re on a bit of a budget.

Been looking at This one on Amazon but was wondering if there is one recommended at around that price (currently on sale for £300.

Would want a steam arm on it too.

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@HarryBizzleI have been saving up for a while and have bought a Niche Zero. Still learning how much I need to move the (stepless!) grind adjustment to get dialled in. 
 

From a practical POV it’s smaller, much quieter and the magnetic dosing cup is really joyful. 

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Mostly natural process at the moment, medium to light roast. The oily dark roast stuff isn’t for me. 
 

One of the reasons for the upgrade was the Sage was hard to get a fine enough grind for extracting very light roasts at 1:2 in about 33s. 
 

Often the really light beans would be sub 20s. 
 

Otherwise the Sage has been excellent. It’s not a necessary upgrade in my opinion (yet), more of a luxury. 

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Anyone making iced coffee at the mo? I’m doing 22g/200g/100g of coffee/water/ice and brewing in a clever, a few clicks finer than I would normally would. I don’t think the Clever is well suited to brewing with less water, though, and might switch to the aeropress. 
 

But I’m getting good results. Have also started adding a teaspoon of sugar and it’s really quite tasty. 

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