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Credit Crunch hits EVE Online


Rayn
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But it's what seperates Eve from the rest. There's genuine risk-and-reward, and by god it's going to make you WORK for the rewards. It's fantastic, and I wish there was something WoW-ish like it, just to show WoW players how rubbish and stupid they are.

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Eve is becoming (in fact has been for some time) the serious person's Second Life - both in it's financial management fantasy fulfillment AND in it's providing fodder for journalists to report from the 'digital frontier'.

The developers take it's economy VERY seriously - apart from the times when they (as players) give rare and expensive shit away to their friends of course *coughs* - but I think they really do see it as some sort of 'experiment' as much as a game.

People keep saying WOW isn't a game - which I disagree with as it contains all the elements of one - the life sucking aspect is optional - but EVE really isn't a game in any traditional sense as it's primary rewards/achievements are gained from NOT playing it - and the 'life sucking' aspect is non-optional...

Put another way - it's more fun to read about than it is to play...

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How would you know if it's more fun to read about than play? You never even ventured out of high security space during your brief stint, iirc.

Are you sure you didn't read about it being more fun to read about than to play? Or dream about reading it, or something?

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How would you know if it's more fun to read about than play? You never even ventured out of high security space during your brief stint, iirc.

Are you sure you didn't read about it being more fun to read about than to play? Or dream about reading it, or something?

Did I touch a nerve (did you get the cash I returned in-game?)?

All I intended by my comments was that all the tales of derring-do, scamming and other wizardry are great to read - but you're not really likely to get caught up in them - at least not until you've expended eye-watering amounts of (real) time and thrown yourself into the thing enormously.

You can play WoW on your own, diligently making your way through a beautifully detailled world - grouping up occasionally if you wish - but without committing to playing the game regularly and/or tying yourself into a social grouping (guild/playercorp or whatever) where your attendance is less than entirely optional - wheras this doesn't t seem possible (to me) in Eve.

I appreciate it's both the design and intent of the "game" - I'm still not convinced it's actually a game at all - it's an alternate job/fantasy financial management simulator which produces the odd cool headline...

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You've not touched any nerve with me; it's more that my irony bone's been a little tickled by someone who has evidently never tried to explore the game at all claiming that it has no fun in it. There's plenty, but you got none because you basically did nothing, to put it bluntly.

There are a few ex-corpies of mine, forumites here, who (unlike me) still play Eve, and what we all share in common is having had quite a few experiences of 'derring-do', espionage, titan (or other capital ship)-bashing, and so on. It's not that hard to get involved in and certainly doesn't have to be 'life-sapping' (I mean, just look at old Pulsey: he doesn't even have a life to sap, yet he gets plenty out of Eve). All it takes is a desire to do stuff, and maybe a bit of wit and imagination if you want to instigate the stuff yourself rather than join in stuff other people have created. It's a bit like life, in that the best bits aren't scripted: you actually have to choose to actively involve yourself in these events rather than be a bystander.

Of course, if you're almost entirely passive and just wait for the goodies to come to you like the conveyor belt prizes on The Generation Game, you're going to be disappointed with the (non) experience. That hardly makes it not a game, I'd say; and it's only more fun to read about than do if you haven't got what it takes to do it in the first place.

So, basically, all I'm saying is that your post is just a form of lazy journalism, cobbled together from cliches you've read rather than from any first-hand experience or understanding of the game itself. No offence.

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It's perfectly possible in eve just to play it a bit at a time. For example I may put in an hour a night of doing something, and I'm part of one of the largest allainces ever (the Northern Coalition), I've seen the 2 largest fights in eve history ( nearly 1200 ships battling it out which we won). If your a part of one of the major alliances you will see the big ships like Carriers, dreadnaughts, Motherships and even Titans. Hell if your (un)lucky enough you maybe on the recceiving end of a Doomsday.

Eve is what you make it really. Want to be a pirate? fine. Want to become an industrial powerhouse? No problem. Want to be a grunt on the front line in Massive wars.Cool. Want to scam the fuck out of people. Go right ahead. Eve can be so much more fun to play than read about and can provide you with the biggest adrenaline rushes in gaming.

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People keep saying WOW isn't a game - which I disagree with as it contains all the elements of one - the life sucking aspect is optional - but EVE really isn't a game in any traditional sense as it's primary rewards/achievements are gained from NOT playing it - and the 'life sucking' aspect is non-optional...

Put another way - it's more fun to read about than it is to play...

This is pretty much a contradiciton of your own posts against WoW in the WAR thread, but that's not my main arguement here. What I don't understand, is that you're saying EVE isn't really a game in the traditional sense, and that rewards/achievements are gained from NOT playing it... Maybe I'm being ignorant, but excuse me? Missing the point, much? If you honestly think that the primary rewards and achievements are the upgraded research/propulsion tech/computer science/cargo bays, I honestly think you've approached the game with the wrong mindset.

To me, playing EVE was all about being able to sneak past a star system riddled with pirates, scourging for easy prey (like me) for the quick ISK gain, or successfully being able to report to my corporation about odd movements in the outskirts of 'our' main area. Wether I did something on my own, or with corporate colleagues, it was always the GAME that gave me the highest rewards, not just another addon.

Deciding on my own to infiltrate and spy on another corporation, act as a likeminded, milk them for information, only to stab them in the back and report back to my own corp was highly satisfying. I've played a lot of games, but I've never seen this kind of dynamic gameplay in any other game before.

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To me, playing EVE was all about being able to sneak past a star system riddled with pirates, scourging for easy prey (like me) for the quick ISK gain, or successfully being able to report to my corporation about odd movements in the outskirts of 'our' main area. Wether I did something on my own, or with corporate colleagues, it was always the GAME that gave me the highest rewards, not just another addon.

You see, that sounds great - but both times I tried EVE, I played it quite a lot for a month, and at the end of it, I was still pretty much doing missions given to me by agents, and getting more agents to give me missions - oh and mining. When does that taper off and this metagaming you mention really start?

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This is pretty much a contradiciton of your own posts against WoW in the WAR thread,

Can't imagine how - I've never undermined WOW from a PvE point-of-view (aside from it's growing obsession with rare pets and other shit like that) and I've always maintained it has the best PvE 'world' experience bar-none - and any comparison to WAR would have been to highlight it's SHIT PvP/lack of 'War' :D

What I don't understand, is that you're saying EVE isn't really a game in the traditional sense, and that rewards/achievements are gained from NOT playing it...

Unless I missed something in Eve, the ONLY way to progress in the game is through skill training which is real-time based - which is "progress through not playing the game" in my book. As Gorf has highlighted, I didn't spend that long (casual playtime over about 3-4 months in total) so I may not have the full picture here - but I know I'm not alone in this view (and I won't relink ZP for the sake of it!)

Between real-time skill learning, some fairly serious amounts of economics/trading (which few people would consider 'entertainment'!) and a tonne of player politics - it really is more like a job = abeit one you might actually you enjoy doing (but pay to do instead of being paid for perhaps!)

To me, playing EVE was all about being able to sneak past a star system riddled with pirates, scourging for easy prey (like me) for the quick ISK gain, or successfully being able to report to my corporation about odd movements in the outskirts of 'our' main area. Wether I did something on my own, or with corporate colleagues, it was always the GAME that gave me the highest rewards, not just another addon.

I'm sure that aspect of it is amazing but you couldn't do that without some considerable time and effort both on your - and other players - behalf really could you?

Wheras you can easily see most of what WOW has to offer on an almost entirely 'solo' basis - at your own pace - and that's my point, in a nutshell...

Deciding on my own to infiltrate and spy on another corporation, act as a likeminded, milk them for information, only to stab them in the back and report back to my own corp was highly satisfying. I've played a lot of games, but I've never seen this kind of dynamic gameplay in any other game before.

I'm not sure that's "gameplay" anymore than my ability to run outside and pour a bucket of custard over a random stranger, videoing the event for laughs, is 'gameplay' thus making the world I live in a 'game'.

Eve is a fantasy world in the sense that it sets some basic laws and let's you do whatever else you like within it - and that's fantastic if you like that sort of thing - and it's also quite rare (ATITD, Second Life and... ???)

I'm still not sold that it's a 'game' tho - and that's not necessarily a criticism of it of course...

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You see, that sounds great - but both times I tried EVE, I played it quite a lot for a month, and at the end of it, I was still pretty much doing missions given to me by agents, and getting more agents to give me missions - oh and mining. When does that taper off and this metagaming you mention really start?

Whenever you want. Okay, missioning and building up some skill points are always useful, but while you were doing that you could have joined a corp, buttered up the CEO, and earned yourself a position of trust before ripping off their hangar and disappearing into the night. Or not. Join a PVP-oriented corp, buy a bunch of frigates and go get involved in blowing something up. It's very much up to the player to decide what they want to do and when they want to do it. It may take a bit of effort though.

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It may take a bit of effort though.

Pre-order cancelled :D

I'm sure it's fantastic if it's your thing - all I was saying is that to people who think WoW isn't a game (and they exist) this REALLY isn't one - but then perhaps that's not the point...

I've not seen it since it got it's gfx update - did they fix the godawful UI whilst they were in there - if so I might pop back for a bit even (as I'm currently not subscribed to any MMO and that scares me!)

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Yeah eve's graphics had a lovely overhaul ( and indeed they will be getting another upgrade with the new expansion).

As for the whole meta gaming thing well it happens and in a big way. For example we in the NC know that we have a lot of spies in our midst, like wise BOB know that we have spies in their corps as well. It's a part of the game really and so you see corporations and allainces take measures for operational security. We also know that they read our forums etc. It's a part of the game in the end.

Still if you want to see a bloody lovely video of eve then check this one out!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ub0YaZoTvfI

and this is high def version

http://www.option-d.net/video/EVE_War_Has_Come_720p.mp4

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I used to scam people out of armour and weapons in UO. It was small scale but great. Hanging around the bank saying "I'll apply deadly poison to your sword!". People were paying me 200 gold a shot for me to apply crap poison to it, which would barely harm a deer and then run out. If I got a nice sword or weapon I'd just stick it straight in my bank and teleport away.

I then devised a scam to get people to give me their armour, claiming that I could make it immune to poison! This took some far more interesting word craft, including claims about level 4 chests and all that, but it worked all too well.

Happy days! 86kiosk or whatever, PAH!

Although the really good times was with a partner, when we managed to steal a boat from a guy - he searched me claiming id taken his key to it, but I didn't have it on me...as my partner in crime had run past and snatched it, while I looked guilty. Misdirection, as we know, can be the key to a good scam.

He wandered off, annoyed, and I reunited with my friend. Using the key to Teleport to the ship we tried to store it, but the hold needed to be emptied. As I was about to try the guy rides up on his horse - seeing me on his ship! He must have wondered how I'd managed it. "Hi!" I said, obviously slightly guilty.

With his spare key he gets on board and orders the ship out to see "Forward" he cries! Knowing full well that once out in the ocean away from the town guards he can murder me and loot my body. "Back!" I shout in reply, and the ship moves back.

This tet a tet lasted for a minute until I realised I was fighting a losing battle...so I teleported to shore.

So close! Not a bit gutted but most exciting!

Me and my partner made up for it later on by stealing some weapons from some german guys drinking in a bar.

UO, you are missed.

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These stories seriously make MMO games sound fucking awesome.

This is the kind of experience I'm after, not something like MGS4 or whatever where everything is kinda laid out before you and you just play it through. And not GTA4 where the sandbox gaming is incredibly limited when compared to this stuff you guys are talking about.

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These stories seriously make MMO games sound fucking awesome.

This is the kind of experience I'm after, not something like MGS4 or whatever where everything is kinda laid out before you and you just play it through. And not GTA4 where the sandbox gaming is incredibly limited when compared to this stuff you guys are talking about.

Eve isn't a game. It's a spreadsheet, set in space.

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It really does depend what your after in an MMO. For example I found WOW to just not be for me, combat seemed too simple and the environment was (for me) quite boring. EVE on the other hand was far more for me but it realy isn't for everyone. It is a staggeringly complicated game UNTIL you wrap your head around it. Once you get the way it works then things are fine. It is a staggeringly open game you can be anything you want really.

I have 2 really good memories of stuff in eve. One involving the original corp I was in (apple corp forever!) along with Gorf and several other forumities. The other is taking place in the largest battle in eves history and one which was very very vital and signaled the tipping point in the NC's war against the evil forces of BOB (Band of Brothers).

The battle against BOB was amazing, never before has the eve server been able to handle so many people fighting in one system but due to recent upgrades this was to signal a new future for warfare in eve. BOB had started an invasion of our space and were very cocky about destroying our alliance. BOB brought nearly every single capital ship they had in order to overwhelm our defenses with huge firepower and numbers. The NC decided to draw a line in the sand and say "this far and no furthur!". The system was know as E-o and this one single fight that would last 4 hours would decide the fate of the NC. This was our space and they weren't welcome. We gathered a huge number of players and a staggering number of capital ships in a nearby system and decided that it was time. Thanks to the system having been "reinforced" by ccp i.e the system was given a boast in bandwidth so lag wouldn't be a problem, the system coped with the number of players well. I was a part of the fleet who jumped into the system and was flying a sniper fitted battleship.With a sniper fitted ship range is the key for killing people and for not being killed and thankfully where we appeared in system I had plenty of range on my side. The fleet commander called out names on teamspeak for people to target and they started dieing one after the other. My overview of the battle was filled with BOB members all eager to taste the firepower of my Lasers (yes Gorf I fly amarr now). The following hours saw wave after wave of BOB ships jump into the fight and die, wrecks littered the battlefield until eventually BOB ran out of ships to bring. Their MAX damage campaign (As they referred to it) died a death that day. The NC had saved their space and war had made them stronger than ever. BOB who had been the real powerhouse in eve and feared by all were humiliated and have now gone and choosen to go a fight an old foe and rebuild the confidence they had lost.

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and how LONG did it take you to get to point where you could have "a staggering number of capital ships in a nearby system "

DYS?

mine... refine... sell... buy blueprint (copy)... build... mine... refine

eventually you'd have enough for a kestral or rifter and attempt to indulge in some PvP which was point-and-click micro management of shields/ECM/S.M.L range weapons

WITH ADDED DICE ROLLS.

All the time the CPU is plotting out a very pretty ballet of ships.

That's why I didn't get hooked like the GF did (2 years as a caldari, one of her alts was a mimatar), it wasn't "immediate" or "skill based" enough for my macho-bullshit-internet-posturing.

FPS FTW!

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and how LONG did it take you to get to point where you could have "a staggering number of capital ships in a nearby system "

You need to invest time in EVE. It's not everyone's cup of tea, obviously a few hundred thousand people like it though.

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That wee alliance war story sounds amazing. I think I've just had horrible bad luck with Eve in that I never find the right group of people to play with. I've been joining and quiting for the last 4 years and every time I playI wind up joining a corp that doesn't really do anything, despite banging on about being active PvPers in 0.0 and whatever in recruitment, and just drift off into the really boring world of agent missions.

I resubbed again today on a whim and the same will probably happen again.

It really does sound awesome when people talk about it though.

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