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Buffy the Vampire Slayer


A.C.R.O.N.Y.M
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The sixth season is absolutely dreadful, and 'Evil Willow' was completely fucking shit.

Although Meh was a complete dunder-head thinking Joss wrote Conversations with Dead People, he was write in there being a complete gulf of quality between Whedon's episodes and everyone else's. A goatse-esque gulf. My theory is that he had a larger influence as a showrunner in the first, say, four seasons, and then he basically handed it over to the others. Marti Noxon's episodes are the worst. I can spot her awful dialogue from the get-go. I can't believe she's writing Mad Men now. Maybe she just couldn't write those characters.

I started to watch all of Buffy with my girlfriend, but I just couldn't stomach it. Season six and then season seven? Come on, how much can one guy take.

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Evil Willow was a good idea with terrible execution. It was obvious from S3 onwards that he was setting her up to do a Phoenix but they screw it up with the early season fake out/magic addiction crap then wuss out on the logical conclusion to the story (killing her off/sacrificing herself afterwards). Whedon admitted many times she was his favourite character and he could never do anything too terrible to her but without the the grand, tragic ending it's largely cheap and meaningless, and just sets up a tedious emo angsty and feeble Willow period that is a such a pointless and wasteful thing to do with her that adds to the S7 shitpile. Besides, we'd already been through the emo shit with Buffy that year, why tread that ground again so soon?

Still, I guess he was damned if he did, damned if he didn't - killing off Willow so soon after Tara would have been yet another example of Dead Lesbian Syndrome and probably get him lynched.

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Used to watch this every week, along with Angel, and loved every minute untill around the 4th season where it got slightly dodgy, but I still watched it. The evil Willow series was just terrible, though fortunately the last series was above average with some good episodes. Glad they ended it there really though. Angel could have done with one more series I thought, ended a bit abruptly.

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  • 4 months later...

Valiant - I can merge this with the other thread if you wish - let me know.

I am doing the same thing at the moment. Thought season one was a little disappointing but it really comes in to its own in season two and I had forgotten how brutal the end is. About to start season three which I seem to recall is a cracker.

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Season 1 has some amazing duffers.

When I re-watched Season 2 I realised it actually had more bad than I remember. It does pretty much end up being clinical depression on a DVD though. I really like "Lie to Me" as well.

Season 3 thought was the overall strongest season, although it's high points weren't as high as the best. (if that makes sense).

Season 4-8? Why...they don't exist :ph34r:

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Sorry - miss typed. I thought Season 3 was the overall strongest.

The others all had some amazing episodes - but 3 was the best complete package.

That high school one always gets slated, but I quite liked it too.

Oddly enough I think Season 2 actually has some of the worst episode. "Bad Eggs", "Ted" and "Go Fish" spring to mind :blink: Season 1's "There's a demon on the internet" was...special...though.

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I always quite enjoyed Season 1 because it was very light-hearted and nowhere near as preachy; sure, it looks ropey (ropier?) now, but Season 2 onwards started to get quite serious and some of that youthful-charm was lost. Plus, I do think SMG looked fabulous with a bit more meat on her.

Season 2 does have some cracking episodes though; one of the defining moments for me was the phonecall from Giles viewed through the kitchen window (not sure why I'm being vague for a program that finised a long time ago).

As an aside, despite owning the complete series of both Buffy and Angel, I've only ever seen upto the end of Season 5 in Buffy and 3 in Angel. I really do need to finish them both at some point!

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If it helps at all you're spot on. Season 6 really was a bit disappointing, it always felt like they were making it depressing just for the sake of it.

Spoilers below (Obvs)

This is maybe controversial - but I think season six, for the first 8 episodes, is as good as Buffy has ever got. The character stuff is dark of course, and it's mainly filler, but the lighthearted bad guys balance it out and there are some fantastic one off episodes. Obviously you have Once More with Feeling, Tabula Rasa, the beginning two parter, but even that ep where the geeks basically annoy Buffy for an episode is great fun.

Then after Tabula Rasa it all goes wrong. Tara and Giles leave, there's the dreadful magic=drugs storylines, episodes like doublemeat palace which are not only probably the worst ever written, but just emphasise how the series in general doesn't have any direction. What is Buffy actually doing with her life? well, in this season, nothing.

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Spoilers below (Obvs)

This is maybe controversial - but I think season six, for the first 8 episodes, is as good as Buffy has ever got. The character stuff is dark of course, and it's mainly filler, but the lighthearted bad guys balance it out and there are some fantastic one off episodes. Obviously you have Once More with Feeling, Tabula Rasa, the beginning two parter, but even that ep where the geeks basically annoy Buffy for an episode is great fun.

I'd forgotten about all that and mostly remembered all the bad 'drugs/magic' stuff. You're right about the Geeks, one of my favourite bits in Buffy was the noise that the Geek's horn in their van made!

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Forgot it was only 12 episodes, so not so bad.

I just remember it being very outdated. I did go back through them about 5 years ago, but only got to season 5.

I'd love to re-do Angel though.

It does look very dated, partly because of the storylines (demon in the internet etc) and partly due to the way it was filmed as someone else said - it really is very grainy in places. However, it still has some great dialogue, a pretty decent big bad and Charisma Carpenter in not a lot of clothes.

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Pretty much agree with what people have said in the last few posts. Funnily enough me and my wife have been re-watching from the start to the end over the last couple of months (we get pretty obsessive, watching between 2-4 eps every night, more on weekends :unsure: )

After re-watching (the much-maligned) 4, I actually enjoy it far more now. Spike’s chip’s a terrible plot device to be able to have the swoony fan-favourite around without him getting dusted, and the Adam make-up’s terrible. Worst of all is early Riley, though, who’s a dumb mook who’s totally out of place. The Initiative is under-used until the last few eps and they have to create some horrendous plot elements to keep Buffy and Adam apart (not as bad as with Glory, but I’ll come to that…)

But it’s actually quite good in a lot of places. Faith’s return, some of Adam’s speeches (the actual character and his motivations are interesting), Riley gets a bit more gumption and you have the primal Slayer and the melding of the Scoobies at the end.

5 is pretty dreadful though. Dawn is annoying early-on, and once you know the ‘twist’ there’s not a lot of point going back. Glory just comes across as petulant and irritable, rather than demented and insanely powerful (more a dialogue than a casting fault, IMO), and the devices they use to keep her apart from Buffy are pretty poor. If striking 5 from the record was off the agenda, I’d have melded 5 and 6 together and had ‘Dark Willow’ fight Glory, with Glory killing Tara as the trigger. The Gift is amazing though.

I’d have abandoned most of 6, and definitely got rid of the Trio, who are sometimes funny but hardly worth all their screentime (although Warren’s a good character). It does have Once More With Feeling, though :)

Midway through 7 as we speak, and I think the long story arc’s ideal: pretty much from Conversations with Dead People (possibly my fave episode ever) onwards it keeps the tension going. The Turok-Han (“Neander-Vamps”), Caleb and the First are great, as are Buffy’s buffed-up powers and the Slayer axe.

Wow, that was tl;dr-y!

Favourite episodes:

Welcome to the Hellmouth pts 1&2

Passion

Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered

Becoming pts 1&2

The Zeppo

Hush

Restless

Fool for Love

The Body

The Gift

Once More With Feeling

Villains/Two to Go

Conversations with Dead People

Chosen

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I’d have melded 5 and 6 together and had ‘Dark Willow’ fight Glory, with Glory killing Tara as the trigger.

I think that was probably supposed to happen originally. But they softened it into Tara being brain-sucked and Willow having a brief battle. It comes across like a trial run for what would happen in season 6.

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