Metallica

[Lovelyman]

Yep. Well said

[Clipper]

Someone mentioned Slayer being shite these days but they did retire two years ago

 

Bands often have their most creative times in earlier albums, especially in Metal. Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer, Anthrax, Iron Maiden etc. all of their best albums are the early ones. They are hungrier and just bursting with ideas and riffs and shifts in tone. As they get older they can still pump out the live performances - Slayer's farewell tour had so much energy even on youtube! But in terms of albums? I find nearly all of them have one or two track I like and that's it.

 

THis has been exacerbated in recent years as the tail of bands is soooo long. WHen I grew up as a teen in the 80s most 60s bands were gone (yes I know exceptions) and 50s bands certainly were. Nowadays we still have Sabbath (50 years) closing out the COmmonwealth games(just) Duran Duran headlined the opening, Metallica going 40 years on, SLayer almost lasted as long, MEgadeth still going, Maiden sitll going. Bands with 40-50 years of performing still going - it isn't a shock that they don't have the same songwriting energy or ideas or initiative anymore.

 

So with bands like Metallica , or indeed any band that is more than 10-20 years old I look at new material and just assume that it will have one or two good tracks but they'll still be superb live.

 

EDIT - even examples where you might say oh but THIS album was their peak doesn't always work. Was watching a Kate Bush retrospectiuve and going on about how Hounds of Love was her peak but a) that album was less than 10 years after she started - and b) Kick inside, for me, is still the best album utterly raw and inspired throughout. SHe slowed down and only released albums when she thought she had something musically to say but a touring band can't do that so much I guess as they have to have something "New" out every few years.

[jonathanhoey]

I think the other problem is once a band gets to megastar status, they don't have anyone to say 'no' to them. Or in particular, to convince them to edit. 

 

I really like Hardwired To Self-Destruct but it's too long. There's an absolute killer 45-50 minutes in there, but it's an 80-minute album. 

 

Same exact thing could be said of any Iron Maiden album after about Fear of the Dark, probably. 

 

(edited to add: this is just what @Jammy said on the previous page isn't it)

[Clipper]

51 minutes ago, jonathanhoey said:

I think the other problem is once a band gets to megastar status, they don't have anyone to say 'no' to them. Or in particular, to convince them to edit. 

 

I really like Hardwired To Self-Destruct but it's too long. There's an absolute killer 45-50 minutes in there, but it's an 80-minute album. 

 

Same exact thing could be said of any Iron Maiden album after about Fear of the Dark, probably. 

 

(edited to add: this is just what @Jammy said on the previous page isn't it)

yeah like Metallica we are just rehashing here

 

And you (and JAmmy) are right there is an element of there being noone to say "no". I think it is amix of that lack of initial creative burst and the lack of an editor. Novellists can fall into that trap too if they aren't careful.

 

As it is I like most of their albums in general and there are one or two good tracks along with what, to me, sounds like decent enough filler. But none of it is a patch on the first 4 albums. But that applies to most bands as I say.

 

The reason I posted was simply that lots of people complain about established longlived bands where their new albums are "rubbish" and the argument I put there is where my head goes every time. There are exceptions obviously but most bands struggle after the first few albums. Lots of people point the finger at Metallica I guess as they are so huge.

[Jammy]

The other thing that has changed for me is this; I’ll attempt to articulate it here, and this applies to a lot of bands, not just Metallica. The first four (maybe five) albums were fuelled by authentic piss and vinegar. Anger, poverty, desperation to succeed, desire for recognition, hunger. Even the direction the Black album went in was driven by their desire to win the Grammy they felt they were robbed of with …Justice, and their need for recognition.

 

But it becomes increasingly difficult to authentically replicate that intensity the more comfortable you are. The last two albums apparently referenced MoP and Kill ‘Em All respectively as touchstones, but there’s a lack of authenticity in that, because they simply can’t recreate that headspace and set of circumstances. James Hetfield obviously still has some inner demons, but the band doesn’t really have that sort of outward intensity anymore - most of them are happily married with children, and they all have more money than they know what to do with, the adulation of millions, and are recognised by their peers as at the pinnacle of their art.

 

I said this in the guitar thread a long while ago, but if you watch the Seattle ‘89 Justice show, there’s an absolute ferocity in the playing. I fucking love that show - they’re playing as fast as they could at the time, but they’re having to really work hard for it, and it shows in the intensity. If you compare that to a more recent tour, they’re actually faster than ever and way more accomplished, but you can see that they find it much easier, and as a result it’s still a great live show but it’s a very different experience these days. Lars, and to a lesser extent Kirk, also got pretty lazy with their playing at one point, but having seen some more recent gigs they look to have refocussed.

 

Sorry, that was a bit long.

[Jammy]

3 hours ago, Clipper said:

Was watching a Kate Bush retrospectiuve and going on about how Hounds of Love was her peak but a) that album was less than 10 years after she started - and b) Kick inside, for me, is still the best album utterly raw and inspired throughout. SHe slowed down and only released albums when she thought she had something musically to say but a touring band can't do that so much I guess as they have to have something "New" out every few years.

That’s an interesting point. I had to check to be sure, but in the same period of time between Death Magnetic and Hardwired (8 years and 2 months, fact fans) they had released their first five albums. But they mostly just tour these days. The caché of the live shows is still very strong, new material or not.

[Clipper]

35 minutes ago, Jammy said:

The other thing that has changed for me is this; I’ll attempt to articulate it here, and this applies to a lot of bands, not just Metallica. The first four (maybe five) albums were fuelled by authentic piss and vinegar. Anger, poverty, desperation to succeed, desire for recognition, hunger. Even the direction the Black album went in was driven by their desire to win the Grammy they felt they were robbed of with …Justice, and their need for recognition.

 

But it becomes increasingly difficult to authentically replicate that intensity the more comfortable you are. The last two albums apparently referenced MoP and Kill ‘Em All respectively as touchstones, but there’s a lack of authenticity in that, because they simply can’t recreate that headspace and set of circumstances. James Hetfield obviously still has some inner demons, but the band doesn’t really have that sort of outward intensity anymore - most of them are happily married with children, and they all have more money than they know what to do with, the adulation of millions, and are recognised by their peers as at the pinnacle of their art.

 

I said this in the guitar thread a long while ago, but if you watch the Seattle ‘89 Justice show, there’s an absolute ferocity in the playing. I fucking love that show - they’re playing as fast as they could at the time, but they’re having to really work hard for it, and it shows in the intensity. If you compare that to a more recent tour, they’re actually faster than ever and way more accomplished, but you can see that they find it much easier, and as a result it’s still a great live show but it’s a very different experience these days. Lars, and to a lesser extent Kirk, also got pretty lazy with their playing at one point, but having seen some more recent gigs they look to have refocussed.

 

Sorry, that was a bit long.

That is a way more eloquent way to say what I was saying .. so... THIS

 

I saw them on the Justice tour and on the "back to basics" tour that followed (Playing their "oldies" and before black album came out). The intensity and drive was utterly compelling. I was too young to see them when Cliff was with them but that Justice tour and back to basics tour were brutal even in the fairly big arena I saw them in (albeit I was at the front).

 

I saw The Slayer/megadeth/suicidal tendencies tour at similar time and Slayer had that same utter ferocity to them at the height of the Reign In Blood powers.

[Plissken]

6 hours ago, Jammy said:

That’s an interesting point. I had to check to be sure, but in the same period of time between Death Magnetic and Hardwired (8 years and 2 months, fact fans) they had released their first five albums. But they mostly just tour these days. The caché of the live shows is still very strong, new material or not.

 

Bands of that size are a machine which constantly needs to be fed.  It's not the band members, there are hundreds of jobs that depend on them, if not more, and selling records just doesn't make money any more. 

[Jammy]

19 minutes ago, Plissken said:

 

Bands of that size are a machine which constantly needs to be fed.  It's not the band members, there are hundreds of jobs that depend on them, if not more, and selling records just doesn't make money any more. 

Oh for sure - a band’s best stream of revenue is touring and merch, so I don’t blame them. Metallica are a huge live draw so they’d be crazy not to play gigs as often as they can. The downside of how much revenue from record sales/streaming has shrunk is that bigger bands spend their time on the road rather than in the studio.

[jonathanhoey]

So as some of you are aware I play drums in a Metallica tribute band. Here's our most recent show:

 

 

Running order:

 

00:00 - Intro (The Ecstasy Of Gold)

01:56 - Creeping Death

08:16 - Fuel

12:37 - For Whom The Bell Tolls

18:13 - Fade To Black

25:37 - Seek And Destroy

32:50 - Master Of Puppets

41:38 - One

49:15 - Nothing Else Matters

55:25 - Enter Sandman

 

 

Also on Facebook for those of you into that sort of thing: 

 

https://fb.watch/eTssbjfIx6/

 

 

 

[jonathanhoey]

We’re on the same bill as @SharkyOB’s Tool tribute band at Nottingham Rock City soon, although annoyingly I’ve had to dep that show out to another drummer as I had a prior booking 😬

[Clipper]

Congrats JonathanHoey I am super impressed had no idea you were in a band! Musically that is a really strong tribute act. The drums and guitars and general heaviness and crunchiness of Metallica all come over brilliantly - I was super impressed by the patience with Enter Sandman and One (Lots of people rush the slower crunchier songs and ythey should have given your drums more breathing room in the middle as the song changes ) and the energy opening Fuel was superb. The latter I have always loved live despite it sounding a bit lacklustre on record.

 

EDIT - do you do Whiplash?

[jonathanhoey]

Thanks @Clipper! Yeah we’re only going for the sound - as you can tell, we’re not and have never attempted to be a lookalike tribute act. But I think musically we make a decent attempt. Really our angle is that we’re just four big fans of the band doing our best to play the songs quite faithfully.
 

We do Whiplash but I’d have to dig through some videos to find a good performance of it. It’s not a ‘core’ song so it rotates in and out, we don’t do it at every show.

 

That show was our first time at an outdoor festival - we’ve only really played in pubs and the odd nightclub before. I made the video entirely by myself and I’m pleased overall with how it came out - I’d have liked a cleaner audio recording (straight from the mixing desk ideally) and higher-resolution audience video (most of it I had to grab from places like Facebook and Instagram Live and the quality isn’t all great) but I think it looks and sounds good enough, and captures the energy on the day. The crowd was definitely on our side.

 

To a large extent I made the video to try and get us more work on bigger shows. I am well aware that anyone wanting to listen to Metallica on YouTube can easily find thousands of hours of the real thing so I don’t completely expect many people to watch this purely for entertainment value. But it’s a nice document for me and the guys in the band as well.

[Mike1812]

We're back...

 

Quite like this on first listen, not too overblown like a lot of the last album. Not sure about that solo though. 

[scottcr]

Holy shit - that's straight from Kill 'Em All era ... fucking ace

[Mike1812]

I was thinking it gave me Ride vibes

[Mike1812]

Album up for pre-order, out in April

https://metallica.probitymerch.com/

[Girth Certificate]

If this isn't widely known as the yellow album I'll be quite surprised.

 

New song is quite cheesy, but not in a bad way.

[Uncle Nasty]

Very Motorhead/NWOBHM

[scottcr]

17 minutes ago, Girth Certificate said:

If this isn't widely known as the yellow album I'll be quite surprised.

 

New song is quite cheesy, but not in a bad way.

like a bunch of kill em all tunes; it’s just a tune about rocking out 

[Thor]

I think it's shit, to be honest. Dull as ditchwater. No hook. By the numbers. Mehtallica.

[Mike1812]

The album is 12 tracks at 77 minutes so that's probably the only short song on the record. How they can keep the standard up for all that. Hardwired could have lost 3 or 4 songs. 

[scottcr]

2 hours ago, Thor said:

I think it's shit, to be honest. Dull as ditchwater. No hook. By the numbers. Mehtallica.

No hook? Whit??

[Thor]

13 minutes ago, scottcr said:

No hook? Whit??

No hook. Nothing for me to keep listening, let alone listen again. 

[jonathanhoey]

5 hours ago, Uncle Nasty said:

Very Motorhead/NWOBHM

It’s Overkill. Even has the false ending.

 

I love it.

[Davros sock drawer]

13 hours ago, Thor said:

I think it's shit, to be honest. Dull as ditchwater. No hook. By the numbers. Mehtallica.

 
It has an instantly hummable, memorable main riff. Fair enough to not like it, but “no hook” is a weird take.

 

It’s Kill ‘em All era riffs (any time they play in A standard it evokes that vibe) with the modern  Metallica sound. Thumbs up from me.

[Thor]

5 minutes ago, Davros sock drawer said:

It has an instantly hummable, memorable main riff.

We've heard that riff before, it's from partway through Fuel, just sped up. And that's all the song is, that riff, Het shouting "LUX ETEEERRNAAA", and a shit solo. I love Metallica, especially the early stuff, and I'm looking forward to seeing them live again at Download next year, but that song does nothing for me. I really didn't get on with their latest album, so maybe this new era for them is just not for me. 

[Davros sock drawer]

Ok, so it does have a hook then, just one you don't like and think is old hat.  Fair enough!

[scottcr]

41 minutes ago, Thor said:

We've heard that riff before, it's from partway through Fuel, just sped up. And that's all the song is, that riff, Het shouting "LUX ETEEERRNAAA", and a shit solo. I love Metallica, especially the early stuff, and I'm looking forward to seeing them live again at Download next year, but that song does nothing for me. I really didn't get on with their latest album, so maybe this new era for them is just not for me. 

 

that's a shame since Atlas Rise is probably the best and most 'Metallica' song they've written since AJFA.

 

and if you love early Metallica - this is practically Hit The Lights 2.  You don't get older than that.

 

[Thor]

See, for me the track is not fit to lick HTL's boots. Maybe I'm being harsh.