Left 4 Dead 2

[Popo]

Alternate suggestions from the board room waste basket:

2 Dead 4 U

4 Left, 2 Dead

11 a Zombie Town (I Live in a Zombie Town)

[PeterUK]

No, it's a fuck you from the shelves to all the mugs that bought the L4D GOTY a few months earlier.

[Uzi]

No, it's a fuck you from the shelves to all the mugs that bought the L4D GOTY a few months earlier.

Ah I was expecting rllmuk to be free of the rest of the internets "YOU FUCKING OWE ME VALVE", but that's only a small hint and understandable.

Seriously though, theres is a fucking petition moaning about this coming out and not being DLC. Yeah so what, Valve promised more DLC earlier on, but decided they'd rather just make a full new game, 5 stories, 4 modes, new setting, weapons, characters. If you played Left 4 Dead enough to have rinsed the game and want DLC, then you got your monies worth. Now more months of brand new mayhem this year,I can't wait.

[PeterUK]

Yeah yeah the petition's stepped a little, well quite a lot, over the 'YOU FUCKING OWE ME VALVE' line but they have taken the piss with the 360 owners a bit.

Cunts.

And I keep seeing this line:

If you played Left 4 Dead enough to have rinsed the game and want DLC, then you got your monies worth.

When people moan a bit about feeling a little scammed but, for me, it's an excuse from the polar opposite of those petition signers.

[moosegrinder]

How? How have they taken the piss? Simply by announcing the sequel? I got my £40 out of L4D, so much so I bought it on PC when it was on offer for £13 so I could play with my non 360 owning friends. It's a surprise they've brought a sequel out so soon, but only because it's Valve and they don't normally do things like that. If EA brought Dead Space 2 out this winter no fucker would have batted an eyelid.

[T Pot]

I don't get why people are getting so fucked off about this?

Look at all the other games that are yearly:

Cod

Fifa

Wrestling

Tigerwoods

NBA

NFS

I could go on....

£40 for a whole years worth of play! With a free update to add more stuff?? Yes please. I'll take that anyday than £40 for a years worth of play, then pay £6 for content on the disk.

[Uzi]

Fans: Man, Valve take so long to bring everything out. So long for new content, wheres Half Life Ep 3? Why's L4D delayed so much? I'm glad they support their software with new patches and DLC content now and again because they take so fucking long to do everything else.

Valve: Left 4 Dead 2! Next year,- yes 2009! Not 2016! YES NEXT FUCKING YEAR! ! 5 new maps, 4 modes, new enemies, all new location, setting and atmosphere, new everything, It's a proper sequel, no rehashed content, we'll gone full effort for you guys.

Fans: YOU FUCKING OWE ME VALVE! WHERES ALL MY FREE SHIT

The internet is retarded. So is anyone who signed that. Fucking idiots.

[robdood]

exactly!

Just because they mentioned that they might do DLC, doesn't mean they owe you shit. The internet is so amusing, sometimes

[PeterUK]

Conversely just because you've had your 150 hours out of your game that you bought on release day what about those who bought the GOTY edition, at £40, on release TWO weeks before they announced a 'sequel' would be coming 5 and a bit months later? It's not a franchise yet so who was expecting yearly updates paticular as Valve implied, and still do, that there would be regularish updates for the original?

Me, I'm not that bothered about the 'sequel', and just as you laugh at the petition geeks my tongue in cheek comment about the cover has seen an equally fanboy-esque defence.

I do however still feel a little short changed but fuck it, lesson learned.

[robdood]

Nah, that's fair enough, I wasn't really having a go at you! Though I mean, business is business etc

[rumblecat]

What I find odd about the petition is that it's pretty obvious that the content of the new game exceeds that of the original. None of them seem to be able to get their heads around the idea that demanding DLC that is actually larger than the original is a bit, y'know... greedy.

Taken from another forum-

So I ask you, VALVe, why have you made Left4Dead 2 a sequel? Why not put their new campaigns and characters in an update or paid expansion? Why split the L4D community in two? Their answer:"It's simply too much to download." OK, fair enough. You don't want to, and probably cannot download this much onto your 360. Hang on a minute VALVe... You're forgetting something... Oh yes! That's it! PC users! They will have to download it anyway! So why can't we get it as an expansion? Why should it be that when a friend sends me: "Hey! You wanna play L4D?" that i have to answer: "Which one?"

Yeah. Imagine that, having to ask the question "Which one?". The horror. The fucking horror.

[Uzi]

Conversely just because you've had your 150 hours out of your game that you bought on release day what about those who bought the GOTY edition, at £40, on release TWO weeks before they announced a 'sequel' would be coming 5 and a bit months later? It's not a franchise yet so who was expecting yearly updates paticular as Valve implied, and still do, that there would be regularish updates for the original?

Me, I'm not that bothered about the 'sequel', and just as you laugh at the petition geeks my tongue in cheek comment about the cover has seen an equally fanboy-esque defence.

I do however still feel a little short changed but fuck it, lesson learned.

I said your case was understandable a few posts up- it's right there if you read it, aint aimed at you

[PeterUK]

Aye the horror, those lucky feckers with decent PC's AND a console *sob*

[SM47]

Why did people bother buying the GOTY when they could just download all the extra shit for free?

[therearerules]

I thought they'd release more stuff, that's why I bought it. After TF2 Valve said they'd treat the XBox 360 version as well as the PC one. Those crafty gets.

[SM47]

I don't understand. You already had the 360 version, but you bought it again?

[therearerules]

Shit I wasn't actually replying to you, but Uzi. I wouldn't buy it again just so I could swear at valve some more.

[snowbind]

Fans: Man, Valve take so long to bring everything out. So long for new content, wheres Half Life Ep 3? Why's L4D delayed so much? I'm glad they support their software with new patches and DLC content now and again because they take so fucking long to do everything else.

Valve: Left 4 Dead 2! Next year,- yes 2009! Not 2016! YES NEXT FUCKING YEAR! ! 5 new maps, 4 modes, new enemies, all new location, setting and atmosphere, new everything, It's a proper sequel, no rehashed content, we'll gone full effort for you guys.

Fans: YOU FUCKING OWE ME VALVE! WHERES ALL MY FREE SHIT

The internet is retarded. So is anyone who signed that. Fucking idiots.

On the head. Valve can't win. I don't give a shit about pricing. I added it all up on the other page, but the amount of hours upon hours I have spent playing Valve games compared to the actual money I have paid for them is insane. I am surprised Gabe hasn't been round to ask me for £20.

Also my understanding about the GOTY edition was that it was mostly for people who don't have internet.

[daveodeth]

The exercise to get round there would probably kill the man.

[snowbind]

[Radish]

My complaint is that a lot of the changes aren't necessary. In terms of actual content all you're getting is 5 new maps, an AI that changes the layout of the level slightly and random weather. I don't want to play in daylight, since that completely ruins the atmosphere. The addition of melee weapons is a gimmick - you have to swap out your main weapon for it (from what I've heard), so who in there right mind would do that? Not only are the restrictions stupid, theres no need for specific melee weapons since you can melee already with your main weapon. The wandering witch is a gimmick. New character skins aren't even worth mentioning.

On the head. Valve can't win.

Rubbish. Cut the shit out, release the 5 campaigns (maybe with the random weather and layouts) as DLC with the original 4 characters (or keep the new ones if it "ruins the believability for them to suddenly be in the south") and charge £10-15. Fans are happy and they rake in the cash. Everyone wins. No need to fiddle about with new skins, melee weapons or anything like that.

[Majora]

I think I read the melée weapons one-hit kill regular zombies but are useless against, say, the tank. So you only really want one member of your team to have them.

They haven't revealed all the new infected and stuff yet you know. They've updated the AI director, added a new game mode, are giving you more content than the original and you expect to pay a tenner for it?

[mr_woo]

My complaint is that a lot of the changes aren't necessary. In terms of actual content all you're getting is 5 new maps, an AI that changes the layout of the level slightly and random weather. I don't want to play in daylight, since that completely ruins the atmosphere. The addition of melee weapons is a gimmick - you have to swap out your main weapon for it (from what I've heard), so who in there right mind would do that? Not only are the restrictions stupid, theres no need for specific melee weapons since you can melee already with your main weapon. The wandering witch is a gimmick. New character skins aren't even worth mentioning.

You're getting 25 levels and as long as long as the campaigns are quite varied and different from what we had in L4D I'll be happy enough.

I of course wouldn't complain if it was downloadable content and can understand the well reasoned arguments for and against, but as far as I'm concerned as long as other friends get it I'll be getting it too.

[robdood]

The melee weapons aren't going to be useless! Why on earth would they add them otherwise?! You can crown a witch with at least one of them.

But yeah SHOULD'VE BEEN DLC.

[Uzi]

My complaint is that a lot of the changes aren't necessary. In terms of actual content all you're getting is 5 new maps, an AI that changes the layout of the level slightly and random weather. I don't want to play in daylight, since that completely ruins the atmosphere. The addition of melee weapons is a gimmick - you have to swap out your main weapon for it (from what I've heard), so who in there right mind would do that? Not only are the restrictions stupid, theres no need for specific melee weapons since you can melee already with your main weapon. The wandering witch is a gimmick. New character skins aren't even worth mentioning.

Atmosphere RUINED, GIMMICK GIMMICK, new WITCH GIMMICK, new SKINS waaaah.

Where did you get an early copy? How do you know what will be a valuble addition and what won't without having touched the game?

I wish Valve would move the date forward as I can sense months of whining still to come until it gets released, at which point everyone will be enjoying it

[Halo]

I think the prevailing feeling is, rightly or wrongly, that if Valve can release L4D2 in such a short time after the first then the original was a half-finished game, especially as people will be contrasting it to the amount of expansion and support that Team Fortress 2 has had since release (17 extra maps, 2 new game modes - arguably 3 if PLR is included, new weapons for each character etc).

Comparing it with EA is rather fatuous considering the criticism they get for their own annual release cycle, and the expectation that Valve should, and usually does, act "better" than other games companies.

[Uzi]

I think the prevailing feeling is, rightly or wrongly, that if Valve can release L4D2 in such a short time after the first then the original was a half-finished game, especially as people will be contrasting it to the amount of expansion and support that Team Fortress 2 has had since release (17 extra maps, 2 new game modes, new weapons for each character etc).

Comparing it with EA is rather fatuous considering the criticism they get for their annual release cycle and the expectation that Valve should, and usually does, act "better" than other games companies.

See people are so hung up on their numbers and comparisons. Valve have essentially fucked themselves by providing such stellar support for an entirely different game which is more of an ongoing multiplayer thing like Counterstrike. Left 4 Dead paved a new type of co op/multiplayer experience for them, it was their first attempt and I think if people cut out the "b.u..h...b..u..h TF2!", they just need to ask regardless of all of this, did Left 4 Dead feel like a half finished game? How many hours of enjoyment or key moments did you get out of it with your friends? Had fun?

Quantify the game on that. Sure it would have been great if we had more DLC, we got the free survivor mode but dissapointingly no new maps, but maybe rather than get the slow dripping of new stuff in the same game and atmosphere, maybe it'll be even more awesome that they've gone back to the drawing board and we've moved from a horror night time to awesome b movie atmosphere with some nice new additions and you'll be able to have those memories all over again. And without having to be drip fed a new map or two over months, bang you get all five on one disc. And bam, it'll feel fresh too and it has lots of new additions and a whole new setting rather than blah- shopping mall in dark which after 4 or 5 plays would become as old as the rest of the game.

That's all it comes down too. If you loved and had fun with Left 4 Dead, well, celebrate, theres another one coming at the end of this year. I didn't expect Mario Galaxy 2 and I sure as hell didn't expect this, I loved both games and while it's easy to bung out complaints towards both of them for doing the unprecedented thing and bringing out a sequel to everyones surprise, it's much easier to know we'll be getting more in an entirely new phase sooner rather than later.

Well I'll get it when it comes out anyway, with a smile on my face and nothing stuck up my arse about it

[snowbind]

Atmosphere RUINED, GIMMICK GIMMICK, new WITCH GIMMICK, new SKINS waaaah.

Where did you get an early copy? How do you know what will be a valuble addition and what won't without having touched the game?

I wish Valve would move the date forward as I can sense months of whining still to come until it gets released, at which point everyone will be enjoying it

Exactly. All arguments based on content, changes and upgrades are PURELY speculation. So they are based upon nothing really. No one knows how it will play, the effect of the tweaks or how the melee weapons will affect tactics. Not to mention the things that haven't been announced yet. To speculate on, form an opinion about it and then proceed to slag the game off about changes with such certainties is laughable at the least.

[Radish]

How is it purely speculation when those changes have been announced? New skins, those are obvious - we've seen the new characters in the trailer/screenshots. The wandering witch - even if you don't think the name is self explanatory, reports from e3 (I assume journalists didn't just make all this up) say that it's just a witch that wanders around. Atmosphere ruined? Haven't you seen the trailers, screenshots, gameplay footage of the levels in sunny daylight? How many levels in L4D take place in bright light? How many good survival/horror/zombie games take place in bright sunshine where you can see everything coming a mile away?

Guns already kill zombies in one shot, assuming you have half decent accuracy. Specials are the only type of zombies that really matter and melee weapons will suck against them for one fairly obvious reason - you have to be in melee range. Is it speculation to assume that a chainsaw doesn't have a 20 yard range?

The melee weapons aren't going to be useless! Why on earth would they add them otherwise?!

Why weren't they added for L4D if they're going to add so much?

did Left 4 Dead feel like a half finished game?

Yes. It just so happened that the half they did get round to finishing was excellent. Most reviews and the majority of people I've talked to or posts I've read mentioned the lack of content and concerns over replayability. So far they've been right to have been worried. None of the six friends I originally played with still play.

Do you realize that all you people whining and acting childishly towards people that disagree with you are as bad as those that joined the boycott l4d2 steam group? I don't see how not liking what I've heard so far about the game means I have something stuck up my arse, or make my opinion any less valid. You think what's been announced is sufficient content to justify a sequel and what will most likely be a £30 price tag (yes, that is speculation but probable, otherwise they'd have just released it as an expansion), rather than DLC or an expansion. I don't.

[Majora]

Specials are far from the only type of zombies that matter on advanced or especially expert, when a single zombie can deal 20 damage with a single hit. And Valve playtest their games to death, if melee weapons were useless I'm sure it would come up.

Your expectations on pricing are just unrealistic. IIRC, on XBLM 3 deathmatch maps for the likes of Halo 3 or COD4 are usually around 800pts, or 7 quid. Maps that are smaller than an act of a L4D campaign. And you expect them to release the equivalent of 25 deathmatch maps for a tenner? No chance. And even if they did release a paid expansion, they would sell a small amount of what a retail version of Left 4 Dead 2 would sell. Downloadable expansions just don't sell close to what boxed full games do. They'd be splitting the userbase anyway.

To be honest I feel sorry for Valve. They've gone above and beyond the call of duty time and again with their support and their pricing on steam and the release of something like The Orange Box and it just seems to have created a selfish fanbase with entitlement issues.