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Dune - Denis Villeneuve to direct!


womblingfree
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On 29/10/2021 at 16:54, monkeydog said:

 

Definitely unfair to say diminishing returns.  The things you can get out of the sequels are a bit different to what you might get out of Dune.

 

(And don't listen to Stevie unless you like fanfiction)

 

This breaks down the themes of the six novels nicely.

 

20211029_155043.thumb.jpg.d8e5ab363147fe08607d71a39e2a5d5e.jpg

 

On 29/10/2021 at 16:29, Mawdlin said:

I loved the first Dune novel (which I read 30 years ago). Are the others worth the effort? I heard it was a case of diminishing returns, but maybe that's unfair..?


 

As I said, don’t listen to the purists.

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Probably looking too early. I think most chains update listings on a Tuesday for the week beginning the following Friday. There can be exceptions for big movies opening, but this is probably past that point now and will be listed with the normal updates.

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6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Probably looking too early. I think most chains update listings on a Tuesday for the week beginning the following Friday. There can be exceptions for big movies opening, but this is probably past that point now and will be listed with the normal updates.

I hope so. Gonna find it hard to get myself to a cinema any time before the 4th

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9 hours ago, Hanzo the Razor said:

 

For a Sci-fi film? Aye right.

 

Chinny Reckon.jpg

Nah, I’m not having that this time around. Best sound, music and VFX is in the bag. Best film/director are quids in, probably best supporting for Rebecca Ferguson. I can’t see a reality where it doesn’t do well. It’s that good.

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Saw it today at the IMAX. Absolutely loved it and a second viewing is necessary as almost every shot has several excellent things going on. I never read the books so one thing didn’t really land for me, but I’m hoping it’s just my lack of wider knowledge…

 

 

Spoiler

Is Paul now leader of the Fremen? That seemed like a hell of a rushed and fairly low-key section given the significance I think it is meant to carry.

 

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No.

 

But…

 

Spoiler

The Fremen have been getting imprinted with cultural superstitions for generations by the Bene Gesserit about ‘the one’, as they were also playing a long game attempting to genetically engineer ‘the one’, and Paul (+ Jessica) confirms a lot of those superstitious beliefs and myths, so he gains a bit of a following. The fact he won the fight will have struck a chord with many of the observers. That’s not a feature of this movie though.


None of that has been shown yet. They touched on the superstitions with the introduction to the Fremen servant, Mapes.

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OK, daughter and I were all set to see this next weekend (6th Nov) as the wife is away. And now it appears it's only in cinemas until Thursday??? Since when did massively anticipated blockbuster movies only run for a fortnight in cinemas? 😡

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8 minutes ago, Padster said:

OK, daughter and I were all set to see this next weekend (6th Nov) as the wife is away. And now it appears it's only in cinemas until Thursday??? Since when did massively anticipated blockbuster movies only run for a fortnight in cinemas? 😡

That's probably only as far as your cinema listings go up to - mine is the same. i'm sure it'll be around longer than that.

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3 hours ago, lordscotland said:

That's probably only as far as your cinema listings go up to - mine is the same. i'm sure it'll be around longer than that.

There seem to be plenty of of other crummy films I can book at the weekend though, so I'm not optimistic. 

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Watched this last night and loved it. However - dune is probably my favourite book, I’ve read it at least ten times and  at last count I’ve read at least 14 books of the series. I’ve seen the lynch film loads of times too.
I thought as a film aimed at people that love the source material, it was a great adaptation. I absolutely loved it. Could have watched it all day. 
Thought Ferguson was incredible as Jessica, really enjoyed Idaho, Oscar Isaac’s beard deserves its own credit. The thopters were amazing, really well realised as were the ships. The change of salusa secundus was interesting, the sardaukar are proper warhammer. 


So this will sound odd, but I’m not sure how much of the politics/bene gesserit machinations/ kynes motivations/ other exposition from the books was missing for those that haven’t read them. When you know the story you don’t need it all explained and can just wallow in the visual and the performances without needing to worry about whether they’ve explained that Piter is a mentat or that Yueh has supposedly unbreakable loyalty etc. my brain filled all that in for me. Like they have one throwaway line from Duncan about clever clockwork in the paracompass and that’s pretty much all you get on the whole no computers exist thing. 

 

If you came into it cold I can imagine you’d be a bit WTF about it all.
And to be honest it serves you right for not having read this awesome book :quote:
 

Also that has to have been the loudest film I’ve ever seen. Bwaaaaarp!!!

 

I want them to keep making them until we get to :

Spoiler

Crazy worm Leto endlessly cloning Duncan for thousands of years 

 

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I arrived cold and got the gist of the machinations, untrust etc. - some things are better left shown and not told?

Re mentats - I would have been turned off by jargon/glossary terminology being chucked at me - show me what they do and I get it thanks.

Re no computers - it was clear that the story is set in the distant future and that there are no computers - obviously something happened to make such technology obsolete or dangerous, I don't need the details as to why really - if the details get filled in at some point, fine, but only if that's done in service to the plot please, thanks.

Super smart worldbuilding & storytelling in this film.

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21 hours ago, lordscotland said:

That's probably only as far as your cinema listings go up to - mine is the same. i'm sure it'll be around longer than that.

 

Cineworld update their listings for the following Friday onwards on late Monday afternoon, but they are increasingly putting new releases up for booking before that. So you could have booked Eternals and Spencer for the week-end for quite a while and now Ghostbusters is up there for a couple of weeks time.

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I saw this last night and really enjoyed it, although with some criticisms that others have already raised I this thread. I last read the book about 2 years ago and have seen the Lynch movie several times (and like it for all its faults).
 

I thought Baron Harkonnen was a bit under-used and I would have liked to have seen a Guild Navigator - but as they have obviously decided to keep any sight of the Imperial Court to Part II I can understand this. 
 

Overall it didn’t impress me as much as BR2049 (which I loved) but I would happily have sat there for 3 more hours to see Part II straight after which must say something. 

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I saw this at the cinema last night as well. Really enjoyed it. It was exactly what I thought it would be, a slow burn, audio-visual treat with great acting. Dune's very much like Bladerunner 2049 in its pacing, sense of scale and complete immersiveness in a fascinating sci-fi world. It's also absolutely a Part 1 without its own conclusion or climax, so thank god they green-lit the sequel (I checked the box office sales and despite its massive budget it's already made over $100 million profit, yay).  

 

The visuals are just astounding, from the design to the scale. The CGI looks so convincing you never have that 'cool but its just CGI' thought in the back of your mind, you're just immersed in whats in front of you. There's so many amazing visual sequences, but for me the highlight is the sand as the worms burrow through it, it completely sells these massive creatures just below the surface. The way the sand erupts before the worms, shimmys under vibrations and then sinks back down after their passing is insanely cool, you have to see it in motion to appreciate it. The ornithopters were really well realised too, feeling like believeable modern aircraft. The clothing, spaceship equipment design is Star Wars level of cool.

 

I already have some background in Dune having experienced the first book, the Lynch film and even an old Dune PC strategy game, but those were all a long time ago. I thought they did a really good job of explaining all the important lore and there was a bunch of stuff I had completely forgotten about, like the order of mystics. One review pointed out that a flaw with the film is that because of all the foreshadowing and visions, it removes a lot of the tension because you already know some of the big plot points of what will happen, and I have to agree with this. However I'm sure the book did the same thing and still ended up being great in the end. Also:

Spoiler

Isn't the black guy that Paul sees in his vision who tells Paul he'll teach him the ways of the Fremen, the same guy Paul kills in the duel? And I didn't hear the dialogue properly what the purpose of the duel was, in order to initiate someone, they have to beat the strongest warrior, or something? If thats the case why didn't Paul's mother have to kill the Fremen leader as well?

 

I loved the incredibly sinister Voice and also the imagery for the Baron, the pool scene was one of the most memorable shots I've ever seen! Its a bit of a shame that the bad guys are on these sterotypical dark worlds/ships and all look evil, but the book's like that too. 

 

As for performances it was excellent across the board. The main cast is great but even the side characters shine here. It occured to me that the Paul box scene would have made perfect audition material, what better example to show off your acting than to be put in that position!

 

For me though, just like Bladerunner, despite the film standing on its own merits, its the imagery that is burned into my mind. 

Spoiler

Scenes that are stuck in my head:

- The intro scene of the spice harvester in the dust storm

- The imperial ship unloading on the Atredes home world

- Paul in the projection hiding from the hunter killer bot

- The worm swallowing the harvester

- Baron coming out of the black pool

- The entire desert slumping down after the worm passes through towards the end of the film.

 

I was in there for what, 2 and a half hours and could have easily sat another 4 hours just taking in this amazing world. Definitely one for the cinema if you can make it. It is slow but I was always interested in what was going on, and there's always some new audiovisual treat in every scene. So happy they are making a sequel, can't wait.

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1 hour ago, Alan Stock said:

Also:

  Hide contents

Isn't the black guy that Paul sees in his vision who tells Paul he'll teach him the ways of the Fremen, the same guy Paul kills in the duel? And I didn't hear the dialogue properly what the purpose of the duel was, in order to initiate someone, they have to beat the strongest warrior, or something? If thats the case why didn't Paul's mother have to kill the Fremen leader as well?

I


 

Spoiler

I don’t think the visions are literal, they’re more figurative. So in the vision the guy said that he would teach Paul the ways of the Fremen, and he did. But rather than it being him being a teacher, his actions put Paul in a position where he learned about the Fremen’s battle rituals. So the vision came true, but what we saw wasn’t a literal interpretation of what was going to happen. Similarly Paul saw himself dying in the duel, but it wasn’t that he literally died, it was the innocent part of himself who had never killed anyone who had to die so he would become someone the Fremen would accept.

 

As for exactly what happened that lead to the duel:

 

Jessica bested Stilgar in combat. The other guy then responded to Stilgar giving orders by saying that he was acting like a leader, but the strongest leads. So I guess technically Jessica would have been leader there for a second. However that guy immediately challenged her for the position of strongest. At that point Stilgar says he can’t challenge her because she’s a something (I’m guessing because she’s Bene Geserit). So at that point she needs a nominated champion to fight in her place, which Paul volunteers for. He duels in his mother’s place, and wins which I guess makes him the strongest, though after that he seems to defer to Stilgar again, possibly because he’s not a proper Fremen yet? 

 

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24 minutes ago, Broker said:

I don’t think the visions are literal, they’re more figurative. So in the vision the guy said that he would teach Paul the ways of the Fremen, and he did. But rather than it being him being a teacher, his actions put Paul in a position where he learned about the Fremen’s battle rituals. So the vision came true, but what we saw wasn’t a literal interpretation of what was going to happen. Similarly Paul saw himself dying in the duel, but it wasn’t that he literally died, it was the innocent part of himself who had never killed anyone who had to die so he would become someone the Fremen would accept.

 

I think Paul's visions are more like literal possible futures. 

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@Broker @Alan Stock

Trying to explain without spoilers

 

Jamis fight 

Spoiler

Stilgar wanted to kill Jessica and take her water but because she's a super ninja lady she kicks his ass, and Jamis makes a big deal out of it and challenges her for leadership as she has bested Stilgar, but he can't fight her as she is a "sayadinna" which is a fremen version of a reverend mother, so he fights Paul. He thinks Paul will be easy to beat and then he gets to be boss. It's not an initiation, he's just being a dick.

Paul hesitates in killing him and also keeps letting him live as he's used to shield fighting where you need to land a slow blow to get through, so that's why they ask if he is toying with him. 

Paul isn't fighting to be leader, and he was Jessica's champion anyway.

It's a really good sequence in the book. 

 

Visions

Spoiler

Paul can see lots of possible futures as his powers start to develop and at this point is trying to avoid the future that leads to the Jihad (they didn't call it that in the film though). So he can see a future where Jamis is his friend and also one where Jamis kills him.

 

Shit it's going to be a long wait to October 23. 

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11 hours ago, Alan Stock said:

Ah thanks for the clarification folks, makes a lot more sense now, I was a bit confused about the whole visions thing. Now I know that, I'm not so bothered about the visions at all, its an interesting narrative tool if that's how it works.

 

I don't think it's been fully explained yet - it'll probably become clearer in part 2. The vision of Jamis training Paul, which was shown to absolutely not come to pass, was an interesting way to demonstrate Paul's visions. It shows that he can use his prescience to change what happens, or at least that his visions do not represent a single unavoidable future. This is really vital to story. Paul ultimately chose to kill Jamis, having seen an alternate future where they become friends. What does that say about Paul?

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8 hours ago, Pob said:

 

I don't think it's been fully explained yet - it'll probably become clearer in part 2. The vision of Jamis training Paul, which was shown to absolutely not come to pass, was an interesting way to demonstrate Paul's visions. It shows that he can use his prescience to change what happens, or at least that his visions do not represent a single unavoidable future. This is really vital to story. Paul ultimately chose to kill Jamis, having seen an alternate future where they become friends. What does that say about Paul?

 

Isn't he trying to choose future paths that avoid the jihad?

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