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Dune - Denis Villeneuve to direct!


womblingfree
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23 hours ago, Pob said:

 

I don't think it's been fully explained yet - it'll probably become clearer in part 2. The vision of Jamis training Paul, which was shown to absolutely not come to pass, was an interesting way to demonstrate Paul's visions. It shows that he can use his prescience to change what happens, or at least that his visions do not represent a single unavoidable future. This is really vital to story. Paul ultimately chose to kill Jamis, having seen an alternate future where they become friends. What does that say about Paul?

Or is he seeing a future where Jamis didn’t decide to be a dick, or a future where Stilgar accepted Jessica and there was no fight? The future is  not all down to his actions, once Jamis committed to fight him there could be no outcome other than one of them dying.

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I haven't read the books, and have seen the film twice. The dreams are purely metaphorical, not potential futures:

 

Spoiler

Paul having to kill Jamis is a lesson he has to learn, therefore he sees Jamis in his dreams as a teacher, someone who passes on knowledge.

 

Throughout the film Paul dreams of Chani killing him. But it's not a vision of a possible future, it's a metaphor for the fact that, in order for Paul and Jessica to join the Fremen, Paul has to kill for the first time in his entire life. In committing that violent act, he is essentially killing a part of himself.

 

I'm pretty sure the film spells that last one out for the viewer, because that's the take I came away with after my first viewing. 

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I don't think the visions are purely metaphorical, are they? He sees people he's never met in his visions, like Jamis and Chani. He learns how to put on a stillsuit in a vision.

Spoiler

He sees Jamis killing him in a vision, which is definitely something that could have happened.

 

They seem like a combination of possible futures and metaphor, with Paul taking lessons and choosing actions based on his interpretation of what he sees.

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The read the dreams he’s having right now as him seeing random possibilities.

 

His powers are that he can’t just see the future, he can see all possible futures that there will ever be.


While at the same time being aware of everything that has ever happened? 
 

His powers are only just awakening so he can’t control or understand what is going on. 

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The dreams and visions are prophesy. They’re literal depictions of possible futures. They become more frequent as his powers are awakened and strengthened by the spice. He had dreams on caladan, he now has visions since exposure to spice. 
He didn’t have to kill Janis to join the fremen, he had to kill him because jessica was challenged, and he was her champion. There’s futures where that meeting went differently. 

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48 minutes ago, Thor said:

I haven't read the books, and have seen the film twice. The dreams are purely metaphorical, not potential futures:

 

 

Might be that in the film but the book is pretty clear that they are possible futures, I think and Paul's prescience allows him to see many possible futures and perhaps guess at their probability of happening.

 

And, sometimes, he can't quite see into a future branch because of some undecided factor.

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"But in the books, in the books, IN THE FUCKING BOOKS"

 

This isn't the book. I said it earlier in the thread, some of you need to forget it exists. ;)

 

As for the dreams, I stand by most of my comment, but will concede they are visions of the future, but they are not specific versions of futures, just metaphors for the actual future that occurs. 

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4 minutes ago, Harsin said:

Oh god, I still have flashbacks of Thoir going all Farenheit 451 in the Game of Thrones thread until we had to go start a more chillaxed thread elsewhere.

Yeah, I don't plan on doing that here. :P 

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It's not even a spoiler to say that Spice causes limited prescience since that's why it's so important in the first place because it's what allows Guild Navigators to actually travel between planets because there's no AI anymore in the Dune universe. They straight up say in the film that the Bene Gesserit have been selectively breeding for centuries to create freakazoid prescient superman.

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Because you completley misread the nature of the vision dequences in this.

 

Quote

I haven't read the books, and have seen the film twice. The dreams are purely metaphorical, not potential futures:

 

That's based entirely on what's on screen which I think makes it pretty clear without even going into the books whee Ol' Frankie spends ages waxing on about prescience.

 

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19 minutes ago, Delargey said:

The reverant mother asks him "do you often dream of things that happen just as you dreamt them?"

But that's only half the conversation, I'm pretty sure Paul's answer equates to "No."

 

Damn, now I have to watch it again. 😛

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What I really loved about this film was the sense of the wider universe. Like they totally threw away the whole salusa secundus reveal but still - they went to the effort of creating this bonkers scene with the sardaukar getting anointed with blood and the chanting dude and all that - just so Piter* can have a conversation with the boss man.


I mean they could have done that in a room somewhere but no, here’s your massive parade ground full of crazy berserkers. Love it. 

 

Second half of the book stuff:

Spoiler

*should it have been fenring and the baron? Hopefully he comes in the next film with the emperor and irulan et al. 
 

I bet the next film skips a few years like the middle of the book (and the last film) and you get Rabban struggling to contain the fremen raids and their mysterious new leader. Then some flashbacks to backfill. 

 

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46 minutes ago, Delargey said:

He says "not exactly" but Paul also warns Drogo based his dream so obviously he told enough stock in them himself.

 

That dialogue is in the first trailer, though I think Paul's answer is different in the final film (20 seconds in)

 

 

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Who edited my post? Bit rude isn’t it?
Come on, the book is over 50 years old and this is the third screen outing for the story. The film is a big deal for fans of the books and the story, it’s not unreasonable to want to discuss the film in this context. There’s nothing in that post that wasn’t already public knowledge. 

There are no spoilers here.

If people are too happy parading their ignorance and reluctance to read a book then that’s their problem. 
 

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5 minutes ago, And said:

Who edited my post? Bit rude isn’t it?
Come on, the book is over 50 years old and this is the third screen outing for the story. The film is a big deal for fans of the books and the story, it’s not unreasonable to want to discuss the film in this context. There’s nothing in that post that wasn’t already public knowledge. 

There are no spoilers here.

If people are too happy parading their ignorance and reluctance to read a book then that’s their problem. 
 

I just put your comments about what happens in the second half of the book in spoilers in case people who haven't read the book want to find out for themselves when pt 2 comes out.

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Wasn't me did the edit, but surely you can appreciate that the recent movie might inspire people new to the books? People get real touchy about spoilers on here, I think it's fair to say we will reserve the right to edit spoiler sections in.

 

EDIT: in reply to @And, of course

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@PobWell they can stay out of the thread until after the films out then if they’re so precious about it.😛

@SozzlyJoe

its hardly a massive spoiler though is it? 
 

How are we supposed to balance this then? Because I don’t want to be a dick about it but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to discuss the film in the wider context. 
So do we put Everything, literally everything that’s not explicitly in the actual film in spoiler tags? Speculation, plot points, missing bits, casting, etc
 

Or just let it all hang out, given that the story is already a known quantity and we know pretty much exactly what’s going to happen. 

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7 minutes ago, And said:

@PobWell they can stay out of the thread until after the films out then if they’re so precious about it.

@SozzlyJoe

its hardly a massive spoiler though is it? 
 

How are we supposed to balance this then?
Everything, literally everything that’s not explicitly in the actual film in spoiler tags? Speculation, plot points, missing bits, casting? Just to pander to people. 
 

Or just let it all hang out, given that the story is already a known quantity and we know pretty much exactly what’s going to happen. 

 

It's a judgement call, really. I think "here's what is gonna happen in the next film" probably qualifies. The topic is explictly about the film, you can't assume people have or will read the books.

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Ok, so that’s no book chat at all outside of spoilers (like for the hodor’s in the GoT threads), no casting speculation for new characters, nothing like that? Great. Or could you just set up a new thread for those that don’t want any future spoilers? As this one is already riddled with book/lynch/jodorowsky chat. 

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Yeah I get that but it’s like an extra button man. 
 

Sorry, I’ll try and be careful. I just don’t really like being told how to talk about something, especially as it’s something I really love, that’s 50odd years old, and don’t get why you wouldn’t just pick up the book. Its like discussing Spider-Man and getting told off because you’ve mentioned radioactive spider bites.
I’m letting my enthusiasm get the better of me.
and anyway @Pob isn’t even my real mum. 

 

I’m contemplating a second viewing at the cinema next week. 
 

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Thanks fella. I know it's been around for a while, but there have been loads of classics that I haven't gotten round to reading (possibly because I was rereading Dune for the third time).

 

Obviously,  it's a thread about Dune so there is always the risk but if we can try to put the more obvious book plot in spoilers that would be great.

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28 minutes ago, And said:

Yeah I get that but it’s like an extra button man. 
 

Sorry, I’ll try and be careful. I just don’t really like being told how to talk about something, especially as it’s something I really love, that’s 50odd years old, and don’t get why you wouldn’t just pick up the book. Its like discussing Spider-Man and getting told off because you’ve mentioned radioactive spider bites.
I’m letting my enthusiasm get the better of me.
and anyway @Pob isn’t even my real mum. 

 

I’m contemplating a second viewing at the cinema next week. 
 

But I just quietly added spoiler tags to your post without even saying anything! Perhaps you had a vision of a possible future where I told you off. 

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