Jump to content

FIA World Rally Championship


The Sarge
 Share

Recommended Posts

Dear Karzee,

My side of the argument is i will ALWAYS argue for anything that i feel betters the racing genre or at least is as good as the PC benchmarks of Rfactor or RBR.

Thats why Meermy's graphics comment is wrong because you could argue that by beinging the graphics or texutre details down, you could either improve the physics more OR up the framerate to arcade-like 60fps.

:wub:

I remember that discussion we had.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well from a arcade racing fan. Dimahoo I think we know exactly what were missing out on with sim racers. I tried f1 for the first time this year. Admittedly it wasn't the most enjoyable experience at first but I grew to enjoy certain things about it. But I just don't have the time to dedicate learning tracks and what not to get better. It's just like street fighter for me. I bought a 160 joystick to get better. But the time commitment was to great. I ended up just writing street fighter altogether. It was painful but knowing that I could get better and not having the drive enough to get better just soured the experience for me.

Just some thoughts from a noob...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But I just don't have the time to dedicate learning tracks and what not to get better. It's just like street fighter for me. I bought a 160 joystick to get better. But the time commitment was to great. I ended up just writing street fighter altogether. It was painful but knowing that I could get better and not having the drive enough to get better just soured the experience for me.

Well, rallying by it's very nature is at it's best when you don't know the stages well. The skill (and enjoyment) is listening hard to the pace-notes being called out while you're hammering down an unfamiliar rough track trying to gauge from the information you've received along with your experience of the surface you're driving one, the elevation, and the car type you're driving, what is around the next corner and how you're going to approach it....all in a couple of seconds (sometimes less) and requiring lightning reactions. That's the buzz.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But when u say things like doing an efficient time trail taking weeks. That's sounds absolutely horrific. I like to dip my hands in multiple games. New interesting IP's that give new experiences. I'm all for working towards a goal but that just seems excessive. Especially when one false move can ruin weeks of progress.

On a side note, dimahoo y do u have to sacrifice framerate for graphics fidelity or vice versa

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where was I stating it was a competition? I just find it hard to understand that someone who's around real racing venues most days doesn't live and breathe sim racers (you know, the ones that are actually having a good go at mimicking the real thing). It baffles me somewhat. I'd kill for a job like yours, yet the closest I'll ever get is by playing these racing games. I'd be all over that shit.

To be frank I'm not THAT often around racing venues, but I try my best. It's still mostly doing videogame stuff right now, but I'm trying to shift that to cars and racing bit by bit.

Either way, if you would really be "all over that shit", you would do that already, by watching races on telly and visiting tracks more often. Or just read about the world or cars and racing every now and then! If you would put your mind to that, you could easily do the same things for a living as I (ever so more often) do :)

In terms of sim racers: the fact that I'm doing said stuff (and still have a study to complete as well) means I simply rarely have the time to commit myself to a game. The main reason I prefer arcade racing games to sim racers is that I can just pick up and play the first kind, without the need for tuning or a wheel (which, as you know, I can't possibly store in my room).

To Meerman, McSpeed, & Dimahoo.

*banter*

Guys, I AM DISAPPOINT.

I love you to :)

No seriously, I'm going to skip on this game. Will see you on Autolog!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Going straight from playing F1 2010 to the WRC demo felt like going from a 360 game to a playstation game. Obviously it's nowhere near that bad, but jesus is it ugly. How low are those textures.

Didn't play much, but with the wheel it felt pretty wooly. I'll give it another try to see if I get anything out of the handling model but my first impressions are of dullness.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The steering will definitely feel a bit woolly going to this from F1 2010 (F1 has massive slick tyres used on rubberised track, WRC uses much smaller and grooved tyres on soft surfaces) and takes a little to get used to. I've not found the actual steering to be woolly though but rather hard accelerating with the tyres not straight on soft ground naturally causes the back end to slowly push out, and if you then counter-steer against too far while still hard on the throttle then it'll cause you to sway the other side - this can lead to fishtailing if you're not careful.

Tip: I've mucked around with the wheel setting but the default is pretty good. I use the left paddle a lot for changing down a gear on tight corners but never change gears up, leaving that to the game to do, so I mapped the handbrake to the right paddle for easy access. Also, there's no need to pull and hold the handbrake, just tap it at the beginning of a sharp turn then focus on controlling the wheel and getting the throttle just right (Another Tip: if you are drifting too wide on corners, even with the throttle down hard, then just drop down a gear to make the wheels spin faster).

Try this: Go to Single Player, Time Attack, pick a 4WD car (WRC, or one of the slower more controllable S-WRC/P-WRC cars), then pick a 3/5 Difficulty stage from Japan or Finland (I recommend Iwanke 2 in Japan because it's muddy, and has sweeping downhill 3rd gear corners that are brilliant for drifting/countersteering around) and get a good time using in-car view. Then race against your ghost a few times to improve on your time. Then go to Online and see the times from the first page of the Leaderboards and see how your time compared, and if your best time is more than 5 seconds than theirs then your not driving hard enough. Download one of their ghosts (I'm top of table for Iwanke 2 if you want to try that....I was using a slow P-WRC car but feel free to try the faster S-WRC or WRC cars), have a few races against it and try and get within 5 seconds.

If you can do that and still say the game is "dullness" then I'd be surprised.

And if you can get close to my time on Iwanke 2 then I'll be surprised and gutted.

:P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But when u say things like doing an efficient time trail taking weeks. That's sounds absolutely horrific. I like to dip my hands in multiple games. New interesting IP's that give new experiences. I'm all for working towards a goal but that just seems excessive. Especially when one false move can ruin weeks of progress.

On a side note, dimahoo y do u have to sacrifice framerate for graphics fidelity or vice versa

Well, in the arcade days 60fps was the norm and here we are, 10-15 years later and many racing games are still 30fps but that doesn't explain much i admit so its more to do with wanting a machine that can pump 60fps, whoever is doing the programming. Not a problem for me so much as i own a PC, but its still an issue for Ps3 and 360 owners despite GT5 and Forza 3 which brings me on to my next point.

A core reason why Forza 3 is good is because its 60fps. It offers a more tactile experience. You can feel the car and track far more.

Thing of it like having a higher resolution - but for gameplay.

Everything else has gone up in res apart from framerates and whilst 30fps is fine, you've got to rememeber that many devs can't even program a solid 30fps. Its 30fps with dips to around the 20-25fps mark when it gets busy. Its not just racing games either (sandbox and FPS's being my other love) but its equally important.

Thirdly, because the eye can see at around 100-200 frames per second in the real world, more frames simply equals more immersion to the enviroment drawn and when you add that to the extra tactile experience of feeling the road, along with other details i moan about (like a lack of internal cockpit movement to simulate suspension)

- it just adds up to a great game.

To be fair, GT5 aims to hit many of these targets and providing they can get the simulation and racing aspect right PS3 owners are in for a fun time.

Forza 3 is good as well, but the graphics fidelty, lack of cockpit movement and lack of online users do annoy me a bit.

(Its also dumbed down slightly for pad users - but its a fair trade).

I'm not saying 30fps is bad of course. Its fine when its a solid 30fps, whatever is happening, but i still think console standards in simulation and immersion need to be raised and the problem is that the Wii's success has, IMO, ruined it for us all because all the devs want to do Move/Kinect shite (and follow Ninty's success) and that means a console update won't occur for another 2-3 years.

Which is frankly, utter cock.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Going straight from playing F1 2010 to the WRC demo felt like going from a 360 game to a playstation game. Obviously it's nowhere near that bad, but jesus is it ugly. How low are those textures.

Didn't play much, but with the wheel it felt pretty wooly. I'll give it another try to see if I get anything out of the handling model but my first impressions are of dullness.

Its ironic as some parts are good. IIRC that arena building in Greece appears about a mile from its actual location.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well from a arcade racing fan. Dimahoo I think we know exactly what were missing out on with sim racers. I tried f1 for the first time this year. Admittedly it wasn't the most enjoyable experience at first but I grew to enjoy certain things about it. But I just don't have the time to dedicate learning tracks and what not to get better. It's just like street fighter for me. I bought a 160 joystick to get better. But the time commitment was to great. I ended up just writing street fighter altogether. It was painful but knowing that I could get better and not having the drive enough to get better just soured the experience for me.

Just some thoughts from a noob...

Well hey thats why arcade racers work so well as McSpeed points out, but after playing them for as long as i have

you sometimes want to move on to something techincally challenging.

Its kinda hard to explain, but those real racing tracks were (mostly) designed for racing and because they're loops they're not overly hard to learn but the point is that you've got a history attached to them.

So you may read up on how - say - Clemont Ferrand's Charade circuit made some drivers sick because of its elevation and then play the Rfactor version and you can wholheartly agree. Same with Eau Rouge, (or the deadly Masta kink of Spa 1967).

As you know we can't afford to race these circuits in real life (or they simply don't exist anymore) so to have this simluated at home gives the game an added connection and feeling of immersion.

I've said this before but its similar to reading a novella to say...Starglider 2 (an old Amiga game) then playing the game with its basic polygons and your head filling in the details from the novella because you've read about the space whales, or certain spaceships.

Its not an anal thing....its just vidoegamers trying to be more immersive within their genre an wanting "the real thing".

Despite what you read, Video and Computer games arn't just about fun.

Ever since the first home computer arrived arcades have done fun and computers have done sim and as you age one appeals more then the other.

I mean Revs came out in 1984 and featured 5 race tracks on the BBC Micro version. You could pick up a racing circuit history book, read about Brands or Donnington and then immersion yourself into its (now) basic graphics.

Its very forfilling and i was 11 when i played that at school.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, in the arcade days 60fps was the norm and here we are, 10-15 years later and many racing games are still 30fps but that doesn't explain much i admit so its more to do with wanting a machine that can pump 60fps, whoever is doing the programming. Not a problem for me so much as i own a PC, but its still an issue for Ps3 and 360 owners despite GT5 and Forza 3 which brings me on to my next point.

A core reason why Forza 3 is good is because its 60fps. It offers a more tactile experience. You can feel the car and track far more.

Thing of it like having a higher resolution - but for gameplay.

Everything else has gone up in res apart from framerates and whilst 30fps is fine, you've got to rememeber that many devs can't even program a solid 30fps. Its 30fps with dips to around the 20-25fps mark when it gets busy. Its not just racing games either (sandbox and FPS's being my other love) but its equally important.

Thirdly, because the eye can see at around 100-200 frames per second in the real world, more frames simply equals more immersion to the enviroment drawn and when you add that to the extra tactile experience of feeling the road, along with other details i moan about (like a lack of internal cockpit movement to simulate suspension)

- it just adds up to a great game.

To be fair, GT5 aims to hit many of these targets and providing they can get the simulation and racing aspect right PS3 owners are in for a fun time.

Forza 3 is good as well, but the graphics fidelty, lack of cockpit movement and lack of online users do annoy me a bit.

(Its also dumbed down slightly for pad users - but its a fair trade).

I'm not saying 30fps is bad of course. Its fine when its a solid 30fps, whatever is happening, but i still think console standards in simulation and immersion need to be raised and the problem is that the Wii's success has, IMO, ruined it for us all because all the devs want to do Move/Kinect shite (and follow Ninty's success) and that means a console update won't occur for another 2-3 years.

Which is frankly, utter cock.

Well hey thats why arcade racers work so well as McSpeed points out, but after playing them for as long as i have

you sometimes want to move on to something techincally challenging.

Its kinda hard to explain, but those real racing tracks were (mostly) designed for racing and because they're loops they're not overly hard to learn but the point is that you've got a history attached to them.

So you may read up on how - say - Clemont Ferrand's Charade circuit made some drivers sick because of its elevation and then play the Rfactor version and you can wholheartly agree. Same with Eau Rouge, (or the deadly Masta kink of Spa 1967).

As you know we can't afford to race these circuits in real life (or they simply don't exist anymore) so to have this simluated at home gives the game an added connection and feeling of immersion.

I've said this before but its similar to reading a novella to say...Starglider 2 (an old Amiga game) then playing the game with its basic polygons and your head filling in the details from the novella because you've read about the space whales, or certain spaceships.

Its not an anal thing....its just vidoegamers trying to be more immersive within their genre an wanting "the real thing".

Despite what you read, Video and Computer games arn't just about fun.

Ever since the first home computer arrived arcades have done fun and computers have done sim and as you age one appeals more then the other.

I mean Revs came out in 1984 and featured 5 race tracks on the BBC Micro version. You could pick up a racing circuit history book, read about Brands or Donnington and then immersion yourself into its (now) basic graphics.

Its very forfilling and i was 11 when i played that at school.

clapping.gif

I'm getting older. Games are getting easier (lots of 'holding hand' games these days) as I'm getting more experienced playing them (28 years of gaming @ 34 years of age) so I want to up the challenge. And there's no better way to do that than playing a racing sim. I've grown tired of most genres now, especially FPSes, but racing sims still give me my much-needed challenge. Arcade racing games are for 'the casual' and that's what I consider myself not to be. I love the multi-tasking, the more realistic handling and the technicality of simulation racing. Maybe it comes with age, I don't know. Dimahoo, Harns, Boozy, Smith, Romer, myself and maybe a few other 'usual suspects' are all '30-somethings' and well into sims so maybe it does. Sjoerd is only 22, but he drinks cups of hot petrol and eats intermediate tyres for breakfast.

And soon the big 3 console manufacturers want us to use waggle and flail with their racing games. They're already taking measures by removing traditional steering wheels from the shelves, in order to force the new control methods upon us.

I say: FUCK THEM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I plus one'd your post Meers - but amazingly someone had already added one as well. Is this a first - a post by you not in double neg figures? ;)

Still love my arcade racers though - nothing has managed to knock PGR4 of it's perch as my favourite racing game of this gen so far.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was cycling just now, 8°C and 3 Beaufort under a nice autumn sun when I ran through some glass from a beer bottle that some juvenile twat had smashed on the cycling lane last night (probably). So I got a flat rear tyre. I stopped to change the inner tube and as I was pumping some air into it again, a thought hit me;

Karzee proved me wrong on Blur. What if he's right about WRC too?

So I'm going to trade in a few games for it next weekend.

You had better be right this time too, Karzee. You Prrriiiiccckkkkk...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So at the end of the day it comes down to age...me and Joe in our inexperience, don't know what's good for us at this early point in our lives

Yep, that just about sums it up nicely. Good to see some honesty and acceptance around here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm confused :(

*cries*

I think it goes like this:

Dimahoo loves full-on PC hardcore sims, has a wealth of knowledge on stuff about precise car physics, and sneers at console sims for not being realistic enough. It makes him feel dirty to play one. Poo-poo's WRC 2010 because it's not as real as Richard Burns Rally.

Meerman wants everyone to believe that he's into full-on sims, thinks he can talk-the-talk about real car physics, but actually prefers console sim-lite games. Poo-poo's WRC 2010 because it's physics aren't as arcadey as Dirt 2's.

McSpeed wouldn't be seen dead playing a full-on PC hardcore sim, can't talk about real car physics, likes the idea of playing console-lite sims but quickly gets bored, very VERY good at arcade racers. Poo-poo's WRC 2010 for some kind of 'pivot' improperness when, if he played it with the best view (in-car) then he'd see that it feels very good indeed.

All three know their stuff about their chosen genres but couldn't spot a decent racer outside of their areas of expertise. And all three know that I'd whoop their asses in this, my favourite genre of racing.

Is that about right? :P

EDIT: ....BREAKING NEWS.......BREAKING NEWS.......BREAKING NEWS.....

I was cycling just now, 8°C and 3 Beaufort under a nice autumn sun when I ran through some glass from a beer bottle that some juvenile twat had smashed on the cycling lane last night (probably). So I got a flat rear tyre. I stopped to change the inner tube and as I was pumping some air into it again, a thought hit me;

Karzee proved me wrong on Blur. What if he's right about WRC too?

So I'm going to trade in a few games for it next weekend.

You had better be right this time too, Karzee. You Prrriiiiccckkkkk...

Well bloody done, Meerman, you had my respect for trying Blur and you have my respect for at least giving this a go. I'll try and show you where the game shines and if after spending some time with it you still criticise it then I will accept your opinion with respect (plus I will also believe that my rally stage times far exceed your driving ability).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jesus for one second can you stop stroking your cock. Dimahoo and meerman are educating us. But you just can't skip on an opportunity to show how awesome u are. How bout this, those 3 like what they like. They can switch between genres given a little push and appreciate what they offer. but all three unanimously agree that....FIA sucks. so u finally found a game that you can "WIN" at. Too bad no one else is playing it.

I've raced Dimahoo, Meerman & McSpeed a LOT over the past year, HeyMykie, I love these guys, they've introduced me to some great games and got me to enjoy online racing. These guys know racing games and have regularly trounced me on a track. They know me well enough to understand that what I type is both tongue-in-cheek and me trying every underhand tactic to call them out to a racing genre I enjoy so I might actually have a chance in beating them at something for a change.

Now you and I have had at least a thousand online Blur races together over the past four months but it's time to move on. You have a choice, either join us in some sim-type racing games to see if your racing skills are a one trick pony (and not bitch the whole time like you did in F1 2010), or go play Kirby on your Wii.

:P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've raced Dimahoo, Meerman & McSpeed a LOT over the past year, HeyMykie, I love these guys, they've introduced me to some great games and got me to enjoy online racing. These guys know racing games and have regularly trounced me on a track. They know me well enough to understand that what I type is both tongue-in-cheek and me trying every underhand tactic to call them out to a racing genre I enjoy so I might actually have a chance in beating them at something for a change.

Now you and I have had at least a thousand online Blur races together over the past four months but it's time to move on. You have a choice, either join us in some sim-type racing games to see if your racing skills are a one trick pony (and not bitch the whole time like you did in F1 2010), or go play Kirby on your Wii.

:P

First of all I was not even talking my first day on f1. So that's a lie. Second of all I was playing with no assists on. Of course it was a frustrating experience but I still got the game I POP it it in every now and then to do pole position mode. That's about it. To me gaming is about fun. One of the many stress alleviators. Why spend it not having fun. Blur is still fun to me there are still tons of racers who are better than me. I only play when there's a challenge like Christos or buzz or the chill king. And before you berate me for achievement whoring as i said before I only do it when I have time and if it doesn't Piss me off. What more du u want from me?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I told you before you joined RLLMUK that this is different from NeoGAF, this place isn't about throwing dollies out prams or name calling, it's about the banter. So chill out, and join in, ya daftie.

my gawd du i sound that serious...

Im not people

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.