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Which doesn't stop people buying the games legally

But if they buy the game (which may not work on their console) and then copy a hacked version of the game they are still pirates. In fact if they mod their console to play the original they're STILL pirates in the eyes of the corporations...

No Win Scenario (and also such a small number of people doing it that it really makes no difference tbh)

Hang on, your blaming sony for you not wanting to use the latest firmware? Thats your own choice, using it as an excuse to pirate is pretty pathetic. You could just install the new firmware, and buy the games legally for your memory stick. But then why would you bother when you can get the games for free instead?

Until recently I couldn't get games for the Memory Stick at all and if I want the games I have now in that format I'd have to buy them again - so they can fuck RIGHT off there...

The fact is I have a CFW PSP because it came to me like that and I use it's extra abilities for some emulation goodness - so I don't want to give that up so that I can continue to spend money with Sony as I've done many times before...

Bottom-line - they are deliberately preventing me from spending money on games without reducing the abilities of my device - that's just horseshit. It would be like O2 refusing to let you make calls unless you removed the SkyPE app from your iPhone because that's depriving them of income...

As I've said before - I'm realistic about this, I don't live in some holy temple of anti-piracy or po-faced morality. I buy games I like - I buy games I play wherever it is practical. Some will be new, some preowned - simply based on economics (preowned is a lot cheaper - wahey!) and I use 'piracy' to weed out those which are simply not worth the cash.

I can honestly say that no-one has lost-out 1p to my 'piracy' who deserved it in the first place - that, ladies and gentlemen, is my morality in a nutshell - it's not your shiny 'in a temple of holy cleanliness - free from piracy and filth' but neither am I copying every game in sight for everyone I know. If you checked my machines at any given time you'd probably find, at most, one recent download I've not decided on/sourced a copy of yet - everything else is legit with a boxed copy/download receipt or it's deleted...

Yes, I'm dirty but it's just a smudge in the scale of things and easily removed ;)

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Bottom-line - they are deliberately preventing me from spending money on games without reducing the abilities of my device - that's just horseshit.

Thats open to interpretation. Almost all the current consoles require the most recent software version to connect to their service in any form, thats just the way it is these days with constant feature updates and bug fixes. That you want to keep features you shouldn't have isn't Sony's problem, and no matter what your actual status is with regards to piracy, calling it horseshit is a bit much.

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Thats open to interpretation.

The whole subject is open to interpretation - is my point.

I don't believe you have to remain entirely chaste to avoid sin here - you can be labelled as a pirate for simply trying to get a PC game to work properly or for finding out if a game is in a language you actually speak!

If I were downloading games and playing them for hours and hours and never buying them I'd be GeekTrash for sure - and I fully agree that getting things 'for free' dilutes the pleasure you get from them enormously, but there's a line inbetween and I'm dancing on it ;)

Look up and see I'm not alone too...

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As i've mentioned before I consider myself the right to have a digital copy of a game i've bought in the same way i can rip my Audio CD's into iTunes. The PSP with CFW allows this & the DS doesn't.

Come the next generation of Portables & home consoles though I highly suspect that this won't be an issue anymore as you'll need official versions of everything. The only thing that bothers me about this is that if I finally get a unified online identity for each service will what I buy remain mine & i'll be able to use it across all future devices?

Or to put it another way, if I have to buy Super Mario Bros again on the Wii2 will i finally own it for good?

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I loved logo. Back when I was in either Primary 4 or 5, our school got in a couple of the apple macintoshes and we used to do programming on them and then play some crazy golf game and loderunner after.

I loved logo, I told it to go 123456789 forwards, and then came back after lunch break and it was still going. I thought I'd get in trouble.

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No, I know a lot of people who pirate who have plenty of income. They just choose to spend their money on something else and think pirating is a nice, cheap and convenient alternative to buying games. They don't lose any sleep over 'the industry' because they really don't care.

There are also those parents who buy the games for their children, who would honestly prefer the industry didn't exist at all.

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As i've mentioned before I consider myself the right to have a digital copy of a game i've bought in the same way i can rip my Audio CD's into iTunes. The PSP with CFW allows this & the DS doesn't.

err - a PSP with CFW or a DS with a flashcard is the same dealio?

Or to put it another way, if I have to buy Super Mario Bros again on the Wii2 will i finally own it for good?

Not a hope mate - they will be selling Mario Games until the end of time...

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I used to download PC games quite a lot when I was much younger and couldn't afford them, but now I wouldn't dream of it. I also buy all my console games from an indepedent guy, sometimes it works out more expensive but he sweetens the deal with promo material (posters etc) and he breaks street date for me always, I usually get everything 3 days to a week before it releases.

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err - a PSP with CFW or a DS with a flashcard is the same dealio?

CFW on the PSP allows you to rip the UMD in the drive & then play it from the MS. A very useful feature IMO that's comparable to ripping Audio CD's in a media player like iTunes. In order to do the same thing on the DS you would need one of those Cartridge copiers which I don't approve of despite them being how cartridge games end up on the download sites to begin with.

What I really want (& the PSPGo is a first stab at providing) is a handheld with a Hard drive so I can store & recall all my purchased games in a single device just like I do with my iPod. Since Sony & Nintendo don't provide this (yet) i've turned to custom mods but I can see a time coming when I will have to abandon it in order to get the official version of the same kind of system.

I just hope that the DS & PSP games available as Retro downloads on these services are affordable as I can't see them having any kind of redeeming services, as evidenced by the PSPGo store.

Maybe I could get a few quid by trading the cartridges & discs in just before the system launches & putting the credit into a PSN/Points card? I'm sure that my few dozen DS games will get me enough for a single download game. Which would be Puzzle Quest:Challenge of the Warlords, obviously. ;)

Edit: And which equally as obviously won't be on the DL service if the difficulty of getting a physical copy was any indication. :)

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CFW on the PSP allows you to rip the UMD in the drive & then play it from the MS. A very useful feature IMO that's comparable to ripping Audio CD's in a media player like iTunes. In order to do the same thing on the DS you would need one of those Cartridge copiers

wrong.

you can ftp legit cart images over wifi to a pc using an R4 or equivalent DLDI compatible cart and no additional hardware.

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I would love a DS with downloadable games at iPhone games pricepoints.

In fairness though, I'd also love my weekly shopping to cost £1. It isn't going to happen. Even if the DS was primarily a digital delivery based console, you'd never see stuff like Final Fantasy Tactics A2 or Phoenix Wright if the games were expected to be £3. You'd maybe see each individual case on Phoenix for a fiver.

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I put PC because I used to when I was a scrutty student.

I wouldn't bother with it now, not because I am particularly anti-piracy, more because I just like having a fresh new game.

I don't buy second hand games or the shatty classix reissues for similar reasons.

It's nice to have nice things and getting a pirated game just isn't as nice as a crisp new one arriving through your postbox.

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In fairness though, I'd also love my weekly shopping to cost £1. It isn't going to happen. Even if the DS was primarily a digital delivery based console, you'd never see stuff like Final Fantasy Tactics A2 or Phoenix Wright if the games were expected to be £3. You'd maybe see each individual case on Phoenix for a fiver.

Which is pretty much precisely what they tried out with the mobile phone version of Phoenix Wright actually. I don't know how well it sold.

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Which is pretty much precisely what they tried out with the mobile phone version of Phoenix Wright actually. I don't know how well it sold.

That's fine, but not every game suits it. Take for example something like Final Fantasy Tactics A2; the majority of the cost of the game's production comes from programming the engine and producing the art assets, not the actual missions/scenarios/cutscenes. If people only bought the first episode at a fiver, it probably wouldn't break even and then there wouldn't be any more episodes.

I think this is what happened with SiN Episodes ages ago (I heard that wasn't brilliant too, but that's another matter).

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Doesn't really work with Phoenix Wright either, the cases are wildly different sizes.

Although obviously you'd change that if you were writing it specifically for that kind of target platform.

To be honest, it was a bad example, as it's one of the few games that really would work in an episodal format.

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Your main point's correct of course, you simply wouldn't get a game of the scope of that or FF for that kind of money because there's no way you could ever make it pay.

It'd be an issue for a lot of genres, potentially. Phoenix Wright works because the majority of visual assets for some parts, such as the court sections, are the same in the first game as they are in the others. Even the characters are re-used, traced over with new clothes and/or recoloured hair. Once you've made the first three court cases, you'd only need to create a range of 30-40 background locations and a few dozen characters, and before you know it, you have the kit to keep making cases for 10 years.

I'm honestly surprised, with Capcom being the sequel-loving company that they are, that this has yet to happen for something like the iPhone, though the recent rumours of a WiiWare version of Phoenix Wright may give rise to this sort of thing.

You can't really do similar things with first-person shooters, conventional RPGs or arcade-style games like fighting games, as they usually require too much to be made per-chapter to make it worthwhile, and whilst DLC can be used to pad out development costs, it's hardly dependable except on absolute top-flight titles like Halo and MW2.

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I have pirated older PC games before, but with steam and the other download services I pretty much buy everything now. With the DS I tried out a couple of games on my M3 but quickly lost interest. I might still use it to try some of the more obscure DS games prior to buying.

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Anyone tempted due to poor release dates? PHeonix Wright 3 never came out down under. That has been seriously tempting me. I'll just do without.

Mother 3...another temptation.

Ninja Five O I thought I'd found an import copy of. Gutted when I found out it was a pirate right down to non functioning save. I've been done a couple of times by pirate GBA carts which means E-Bay isn't really an option. A pity since there are some GBA games I'd love to have.

And some releases just seem to congregate in one city. I found Bangio-Spirits in Brisbane eventually. And Melbourne had Giana Sisters a long time before Sydney did.

This is the sort of thing that drives piracy.

One of the big reasons I'm not tempted by PC piracy at all is Steam. After being so anti Steam for so long I'm really enjoying (for now) it's conveinience and even better the low price point. What's the point of spending hours looking for a working virus free yarr of a PC game when I can d/load the real thing from Steam for a decent price?

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I can't by arsed with PC piracy. There is about 1 game every two years I want to play (the most recent examples were Crysis and Dragon Age: Origins) and I really don't like downloading virus-ridden trojan infested bogus files or non-working keygenerators with loud rockmusic under them and dodgy tools to mount virtual drives and stuff like that. Considering PC games are also cheaper to their console counterparts, I rather buy them. At least that way I'm sure I can download the much needed patches the day they are released without risk and all that.

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I did a null vote as I've had a few GBA things in the past but then remembered that back in the day I would have had a few PC things as well. I know I've never owned the original Quake but I had the full thing and lots of mods etc. can't remember if that was a proper pirate or just the case of lending it off a friend and leaving it installed. Wouldn't have been off the net anyway, didn't even have it at home back then. GBA I had a cart for but I bought that to develop on primarily, just checked out a few things since it was so easy, there's nothing pirated left on it now though. I've also downloaded US TV episodes rather than wait for them over here, all the same in the eyes of the law though...

I reckon generally piracy breaks down into 2 categories of people - those who will pirate everything they can and never even consider paying money for stuff and those who have more of a 'try before you buy' approach. The first are pretty much never going to be converted, you can't even look at them as lost sales really as they're unlikely to buy anything as long as piracy exists. The second are going to judge things on quality and buy what they think is good/good value. As a games developer myself, piracy doesn't really bother me at all, leave it up to the publishers and the law to do what they want. I'm getting paid for the job I do at the time and unlikely to see much royalties from things in the future so I don't really mind how something sells as long as I feel I did a good job (I could see how this would be different if I worked somewhere much smaller though where it was more of a hand to mouth existence though).

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CFW on the PSP allows you to rip the UMD in the drive & then play it from the MS. A very useful feature IMO that's comparable to ripping Audio CD's in a media player like iTunes. In order to do the same thing on the DS you would need one of those Cartridge copiers which I don't approve of despite them being how cartridge games end up on the download sites to begin with.

As BB has already said, you can copy legit carts using software/FTP on a flashcart.

I did it for a cart which was playing silly buggers (I think it had gotten wet or something) because I wanted my gamesave and that save needed the UK version of the game which wasn't up for D/L at the time...

Ironically I'd not realised you could copy UMDs using CFW - never occured to me to look! *slaps head*

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Another reason but less so these days is because I can play the game a month before it is released in the UK because the yanks get it first in the same language, I really don't see why I should have to wait for something that is freely available, if publishers can't get their shit together for a global release then that is their problem and quite obviously not mine.

:omg:

Not usre this condones stealing the games tbh, though it does annoy the hell out of me that we have to wait months for it to be translated into all the other European languages. We should be part of the same region as america.

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