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Edge #209


SweatyTravolta
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I don't like Devil May Cry.

I don't like Zack and Wiki.

I don't like Okami.

I don't like obscure Japanese RPGs.

I don't like mecha.

I don't like very many 'niche' games at all.

I have played the demo of Bayonetta, love it with a firey passion, and will happily preorder it.

I can see how it's scored ten, quite easily.

I've played it.

You haven't.

We might both be unique cases, not representative of anyone other than ourselves.

However - you're the one calling yourself the majority.

I'm not.

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i think you should certainly consider reading a different magazine, because edge has pretty much never taken probable sales into account when reviewing something (for further info see killzone 2 outrage, no more heroes love, etc).

edit: xpost, sorry.

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Edge reviews still means as much as they ever did for me, which is to say I find them generally well written. Not that I agree with every score, a game like LBP didn't do anything for me personally, but in general I find EG and Edge the best options when it comes to games media.

Also, I'm not a Japanophile at all. I just like good games and I really like stylish action games with lots of depth. I would love those as well if they'd be from Europe or the US, but the best the West can do seems to be God of War. Which, compared to the likes of Bayonetta, is as deep as a puddle. I like it for the epic spectacle it provides, but if you ask me to choose...

And I said before, interest in Bayonetta is absolutely not limited to Japan alone. Look at how massive the Bayonetta thread on GAF is for example.

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No one media place gets it right for me. Far too many Edge scores have differed from my taste hugely recently and it feels like sometimes they're not reviewing the game itself, but something beyond whats on the disc, the genre, the concepts- which can make for interesting writing, but a pretty unreliable guide for what is pretty much a good game or not. I never use them in that way but they do make for interesting reading and are usually very well writtten (apart from the odd one- I read the whole DA review in the mag this week- there were some merit in it, but overall it read like some rant from a blogger who pisses on stuff in amusing ways). I find their features are their best points personally.

Eurogamer can be all over the place, awarding high scores to pretty horrible games quite a bit (Lost Via Domus -what the fuck). I pretty much use a mix of forum opinions and quick scans of reviews from metacritic to get an overarching view of a games quality. I just don't trust individual reviews these days- the way a lot of high profile game reviews are carried out and the time pressures to get them out in time usually means they're never well considered enough- but thats not unreasonable either given how the media has to work.

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There's differing scores and then there's something like a LBP 10 which is hard to justify. Both from a game structure/gameplay point of view (it's pretty obvious why the game doesn't work long term), and looking at the market take up; Edge seem to have got that oh, so, wrong.

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i think you should certainly consider reading a different magazine, because edge has pretty much never taken probable sales into account when reviewing something (for further info see killzone 2 outrage, no more heroes love, etc).

edit: xpost, sorry.

They didn't get tens. An Edge ten used to be a showstopper, you know. there was an edge ten and you'd phone your friends up giddy with excitement. Now it's "What got a ten this month?" "Oh some Japanese thing"

I suppose on top of the debacle that is LBP's 10 then I should not be surprised, did even Soong think that should've got a ten? But now an Edge ten just means it's a really good game. They're like Famitsu now, I guess.

Nobody would buy a game on the strength of an Edge review these days unless you enjoy playing Russian Roulette.

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I remember EG's games of the year round-up last year, and they had LBP at number one followed by comments from the team where just about all of them said they didn't like it or didn't 'get' it but they recognised that it was important and so sort of deserved to be there.

It's a lovely idea, but I think functionally, as both a platformer and a level construction kit, it's awkward to the point of near-brokenness.

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No one media place gets it right for me. Far too many Edge scores have differed from my taste hugely recently and it feels like sometimes they're not reviewing the game itself, but something beyond whats on the disc, the genre, the concepts- which can make for interesting writing, but a pretty unreliable guide for what is pretty much a good game or not. I never use them in that way but they do make for interesting reading and are usually very well writtten (apart from the odd one- I read the whole DA review in the mag this week- there were some merit in it, but overall it read like some rant from a blogger who pisses on stuff in amusing ways). I find their features are their best points personally.

Eurogamer can be all over the place, awarding high scores to pretty horrible games quite a bit (Lost Via Domus -what the fuck). I pretty much use a mix of forum opinions and quick scans of reviews from metacritic to get an overarching view of a games quality. I just don't trust individual reviews these days- the way a lot of high profile game reviews are carried out and the time pressures to get them out in time usually means they're never well considered enough- but thats not unreasonable either given how the media has to work.

I think Eurogamer are better with their tens though. You know? You can fuck up a 7,8 or 9. But a ten? A ten should not be handed out willynilly.

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I certainly don't think Edge hands out its 10s 'willy nilly', but then it does seem to award them more readily these days. I remember listening to Ste Curran on OLL a while back where he talked about how it was such a big deal for him to give Halo a 10. Given the number of top scores we've seen recently from Edge, I don't imagine they agonise over the decision quite so much.

I've spoken to a few journos about this, all of whom have played Bayonetta, and all of whom expressed surprise at the score. They all agree that it's brilliant, but not what they'd expect an Edge 10 to be. So make of that what you will.

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I remember EG's games of the year round-up last year, and they had LBP at number one followed by comments from the team where just about all of them said they didn't like it or didn't 'get' it but they recognised that it was important and so sort of deserved to be there.

It's a lovely idea, but I think functionally, as both a platformer and a level construction kit, it's awkward to the point of near-brokenness.

It just felt a bit weird that suddenly the highest possible awards and accolades were awarded for what an achievement a game accomplished (level sharing, construction)rather than how fun it was or how well it played.

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I pretty much use a mix of forum opinions and quick scans of reviews from metacritic to get an overarching view of a games quality.

Yes, me too. Generally I take a peek at Eurogamer, GameSpot and IGN combined with the junkets on Metacritic and forum opinion. Although forum opinion is better trusted after a week or so when the initial euphoria of a game has waned of a bit and the naggers also get their points across. This is usually a bit more balanced. Fortunately I haven't bought any duds for a long time now, the only recent fullprice game I can remember that didn't grab me despite glowing recommendations is Red Faction Guerilla.

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I've spoken to a few journos about this, all of whom have played Bayonetta, and all of whom expressed surprise at the score. They all agree that it's brilliant, but not what they'd expect an Edge 10 to be. So make of that what you will.

I wonder where edge would put gta4 or LBP in a list of the 50 best games ever. I would wager they wouldn't be in the top 20.

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It just felt a bit weird that suddenly the highest possible awards and accolades were awarded for what an achievement a game accomplished (level sharing, construction)rather than how fun it was or how well it played.

I find it great fun, personally. Don't be so presumptuous.

(I wouldn't give it a ten, though.)

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I've spoken to a few journos about this, all of whom have played Bayonetta, and all of whom expressed surprise at the score. They all agree that it's brilliant, but not what they'd expect an Edge 10 to be. So make of that what you will.

I think its simply because of what people still expect a 10 to be, especially from Edge. Games that are rememered fondly a decade later and you can see their effect. I have no doubt Bayonetta will get 90 something metacritic- it looks incredible and I loved the demo. But if its just going to be an incredible game and not have the weight behind it that Mario 64, Zelda and Halo did then I know quite a few games deserving of a 10 on merit of them being amazing.

Nevertheless, I can't wait for it. I'd import the PS3 version if it wasn't that inferior to the 360

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I find it great fun, personally. Don't be so presumptuous.

(I wouldn't give it a ten, though.)

That was in response to him stating the EG dudes comments. I wasn't presuming everyone felt the same. Clearly though it doesn't exactly unite people on its platforming enjoyment- its very marmite from what I and I'm guessing you've read.

I still found it as one of the most boring games I've ever played once the first few days of charm wore off though :D

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I wonder where edge would put gta4 or LBP in a list of the 50 best games ever. I would wager they wouldn't be in the top 20.

LBP is behind Turbo Esprit for me.

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I wonder where edge would put gta4 or LBP in a list of the 50 best games ever. I would wager they wouldn't be in the top 20.

I think Edge actually had a lower score compared to the rest of the media for GTA4, didn't it get an 8?

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I still found it as one of the most boring games I've ever played once the first few days of charm wore off though :D

There's a real lack of challenge, structure, and progression to the game. That's the rub it's not really a game as such - this is how it got to market so quickly. They left in all the toolset bits and whacked it out there.

Had they given it another 12-24 months you could have seen something far, far better.

No doubt LBP2 will address this; and what do Edge do then? 12 out of 10?! :(

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I kind of agree with Uzi; a lot of Edge 10s have had plenty of hype behind them - SM64, Ocarina, GT, Half-Life 2, Halo, Halo 3, LBP - and so Bayonetta's 10 is a bit leftfield. That said, if the game's good enough - hype or no hype - then why not give it your highest accolade?

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They didn't get tens. An Edge ten used to be a showstopper, you know. there was an edge ten and you'd phone your friends up giddy with excitement. Now it's "What got a ten this month?" "Oh some Japanese thing"

Like the first 3 Edge tens? A time which you want to go back to? In fact apart from Mario Galaxy and now this, the more recent tens are all western gamesand mainly FPS titles.

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Agreeing or disagreeing with Edge reviews is all relative anyway. I have no idea where the LBP 10 came from - its easily my least played and least enjoyed PS3 game. Equally their measly 7 for Valkyria Chronicles was a crime against humanity (or was it more down to the game being lost among a sea of pre-Christmas releases and being given to the office twerp to cut his teeth on). On the other hand I've felt in total agreement with Edge on what others have felt contentious; their fall out 3 score of 7 and the borderlands 6.

I can't talk about bayonetta of course, one way or the other, until I've actually played it. Them giving it a 10 will certainly force me to buy it.......... but their last 10 forced me to buy little big planet :D

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That was in response to him stating the EG dudes comments. I wasn't presuming everyone felt the same.

Ok. Sorry.

I think Edge actually had a lower score compared to the rest of the media for GTA4, didn't it get an 8?

No, they gave it a ten. :D

There's a real lack of challenge, structure, and progression to the game. That's the rub it's not really a game as such - this is how it got to market so quickly. They left in all the toolset bits and whacked it out there.

Had they given it another 12-24 months you could have seen something far, far better.

No, I'm almost entirely certain that was intentional. It's a 'user-generated' game. If they wanted to add their own levels to it, they would have done so by now (rather than churn out costumes and add-ons).

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I kind of agree with Uzi; a lot of Edge 10s have had plenty of hype behind them - SM64, Ocarina, GT, Half-Life 2, Halo, Halo 3, LBP - and so Bayonetta's 10 is a bit leftfield. That said, if the game's good enough - hype or no hype - then why not give it your highest accolade?

Well my point wasn't so much about hype. Sure Halo got hyped in its early years, but by the time the xbox actually launched, I never had it on my radar and I had no idea it would end up being the best FPS I've ever played. I think it caught plenty of people off guard, hence the cover of the review issue it was covered in?

My point was that years after the release of Zelda, Mario 64, Gran Turismo, Halo- you will still find people talking about them, the effect they had, how they're still relevant today or how they've provided the structure or the mile stone for a certain genre or generation. All those games have influenced what a lot of people think of as great games.

The recent ones, including Halo 3 btw, I don't think they will have the same effect now or in the future. But its hard to tell, all those previous Edge 10's were at the time when 3D was relatively new, all those experiences were the beginning of new types of genres or redefining them. This gen redefines in different ways so it could be unreasonable to hold that standard that might never be met simply because of the timing and steps in the generations themselves.

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Their review for Bayonetta reminds me of the one for Half Life 2 in that it doesn't exactly do anything new, but what it does is the best example in its genre to date.

This is what I don't like about the most recent Edge 10's. They used to be reserved for genre defining examples of something new and exciting. Now they're just the best example of something that's been around for years...Until the next one.

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Agreeing or disagreeing with Edge reviews is all relative anyway. I have no idea where the LBP 10 came from - its easily my least played and least enjoyed PS3 game. Equally their measly 7 for Valkyria Chronicles was a crime against humanity (or was it more down to the game being lost among a sea of pre-Christmas releases and being given to the office twerp to cut his teeth on). On the other hand I've felt in total agreement with Edge on what others have felt contentious; their fall out 3 score of 7 and the borderlands 6.

I can't talk about bayonetta of course, one way or the other, until I've actually played it. Them giving it a 10 will certainly force me to buy it.......... but their last 10 forced me to buy little big planet :D

I meant to add that their dragon age review, which I still haven't read, has got the score badly wrong too from the 15 hours I've played thus far.

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This is what I don't like about the most recent Edge 10's. They used to be reserved for genre defining examples of something new adn exciting. Now they're just the best example of something that's been around for years...Until the next one.

What if there are no more genre defining games right now? Or the ones that are there appeal to different audiences (Wii Sports/Fit) or have flaws? I guess its either stop giving out tens or move the goal posts for what earns that score.

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