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Edge #209


SweatyTravolta
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I'm not doubting the Bayonetta score, as I haven't played that game, but I do agree that it's a shame that an edge 10 just isn't special anymore. Games like Halo 3, LBP, and GTA4 are in no way an edge 10 going by the old Mario 64/OOT/Halo standards. LBP probably got its 10 for the idea behind it (level construction combined with community sharing) rather than the quality of the game itself, just like I'm guessing that Halo 3 got its 10 for the implementation of recordable replays and screenshots that are shareable with, again, a wider community. How GTA4, a next-gen version of the game we've played so many fucking times before, complete with all the flaws from the previous versions, got a 10 I have no idea.

Fact is, by the standards of ye olde edge those three games would never have received a 10, and imho of all the recent games the only ones that would've gotten a 10 from the old edge are Mario Galaxy (I think few people would disagree) and Resi 4 - which ironically got a 9 from the same edge that gave LBP a 10.

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This is what I don't like about the most recent Edge 10's. They used to be reserved for genre defining examples of something new and exciting. Now they're just the best example of something that's been around for years...Until the next one.

Are you sure? I mean, Halo and Gran Turismo weren’t particularly new or original, but were absolutely the best examples of their respective genres. Out of the original four Edge tens, that just leaves Zelda and Mario 64, which admittedly pretty much invented two whole genres.

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This is what I don't like about the most recent Edge 10's. They used to be reserved for genre defining examples of something new and exciting. Now they're just the best example of something that's been around for years...Until the next one.

Well in the case of LBP I'd argue that was awarded for innovation, but the others I'd agree - GTAIV & Halo 3 didn't deserve their Tens, but Mario Galaxy and Half-Life 2 did despite not doing anything new; they're still unsurpassed. I'm hoping Bayonetta fall into the latter categor.

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Fact is, by the standards of ye olde edge those three games would never have received a 10, and imho of all the recent games the only ones that would've gotten a 10 from the old edge are Mario Galaxy (I think few people would disagree) and Resi 4 - which ironically got a 9 from the same edge that gave LBP a 10.

It's all a bit of a futile discussion though, as I would for example never give Resi 4 a 10/10 score myself. In the end it's just somebody's opinion and even if Edge is the most authoritative magazine on the subject, they can still be wrong. And they often are.

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Halo and GT might have been in a non original genre and didn't invent their own, but they still redefined their genres. Halo has influenced pretty much every FPS since in some way or the other- before Bungie, Id more or les defined what FPS's were (with brief exceptions from HL and GE). Halo turned it all on its head with its various new systems.

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Then you don't award any. That's what made them special, they were as rare as white-rhinos and great examples of revolutionary game design.

Well Zelda's big innovation was moving from 2D to 3D which was a reflection of that time in history technologically more than anything, same with Mario 64.

Tens should be awarded for great game design, whether it's 'just' refined to perfection or doing something genuinely new. But the bottom line is that they should be great entertainment which sets the bar higher than it was previously.

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Halo and GT might have been in a non original genre and didn't invent their own, but they still redefined their genres. Halo has influenced pretty much every FPS since in some way or the other- before Bungie, Id more or les defined what FPS's were (with brief exceptions from HL and GE). Halo turned it all on its head with its various new systems.

Not to mention that in terms of FPS combat it's still unsurpassed. In fact, even Bungie themselves haven't been able to better it.

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does anyone know what the other 11 games aside from bayonetta which famitsu have every given 40/40 to were?

Wikipedia ftw:

# The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998, Nintendo, for Nintendo 64)

# Soulcalibur (1999, Namco, for Dreamcast)

# Vagrant Story (2000, Square Co., Ltd., for PlayStation)

# The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (2003, Nintendo, for Nintendo GameCube)

# Nintendogs (2005, Nintendo, for Nintendo DS)

# Final Fantasy XII (2006, Square Enix, for PlayStation 2)

# Super Smash Bros. Brawl (2008, Nintendo, for Wii)

# Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (2008, Konami, for PlayStation 3)

# 428: Fūsa Sareta Shibuya de (2008, Sega, for Wii)

# Dragon Quest IX (2009, Square Enix, for Nintendo DS)

# Monster Hunter Tri (2009, Capcom, for Wii)

# Bayonetta (2009, Sega, for Xbox 360)

# New Super Mario Bros. Wii (2009, Nintendo, for Wii)

Seven 40/40's in the last two years. Seems they are getting a bit more generous with their reviews of late. Mind you, I have noticed a disproportionate amount of Edge 10/10's have been in the last two years too. Games are better than ever I guess. Hurrah!

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Edge really do lay into Dragon Age in their review don't they? It's odd that they keep referring to the PC version in the review despite choosing the 360 one for the actual judgement. From how I'm reading it you can add at least another 1 point to the PC version.

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No, I'm almost entirely certain that was intentional. It's a 'user-generated' game. If they wanted to add their own levels to it, they would have done so by now (rather than churn out costumes and add-ons).

We don't know for sure. If it is intentional it's genius (less dev time/cost) and yet also a pity. You could have done a hell of a lot more with the product.

Additionally it's not just about adding levels, that's the easiest thing to do. It's everything around that, a better structure, progression path, etc. Levels are just that, the rest is adding a lot more depth to the game.

Let's see what they do with LBP2, as I feel Sony said "Get this out now, we don't care about all that other jazz, we want a decent exclusive for the system!".

If they don't improve the overall experience I will be very, very surprised.

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# The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998, Nintendo, for Nintendo 64)

# Soulcalibur (1999, Namco, for Dreamcast)

# Vagrant Story (2000, Square Co., Ltd., for PlayStation)

# The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (2003, Nintendo, for Nintendo GameCube)

# Nintendogs (2005, Nintendo, for Nintendo DS)

# Final Fantasy XII (2006, Square Enix, for PlayStation 2)

# Super Smash Bros. Brawl (2008, Nintendo, for Wii)

# Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (2008, Konami, for PlayStation 3)

# 428: Fūsa Sareta Shibuya de (2008, Sega, for Wii)

# Dragon Quest IX (2009, Square Enix, for Nintendo DS)

# Monster Hunter Tri (2009, Capcom, for Wii)

# Bayonetta (2009, Sega, for Xbox 360)

# New Super Mario Bros. Wii (2009, Nintendo, for Wii)

Seven 40/40's in the last two years. Seems they are getting a bit more generous with their reviews of late. Mind you, I have noticed a disproportionate amount of Edge 10/10's have been in the last two years too. Games are better than ever I guess. Hurrah!

How long has Famitsu been going?

I guess this either points to a generalised increase in the percieved quality of games or an industry wide apathy for harsh reviews and punishing scores.

Just quickly though, Metal Gear Solid 4 a ten but not 3? Madness.

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We don't know for sure. If it is intentional it's genius (less dev time/cost) and yet also a pity. You could have done a hell of a lot more with the product.

Additionally it's not just about adding levels, that's the easiest thing to do. It's everything around that, a better structure, progression path, etc. Levels are just that, the rest is adding a lot more depth to the game.

Let's see what they do with LBP2, as I feel Sony said "Get this out now, we don't care about all that other jazz, we want a decent exclusive for the system!".

If they don't improve the overall experience I will be very, very surprised.

LBP PSP is out now. Is that any different?

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This is what I don't like about the most recent Edge 10's. They used to be reserved for genre defining examples of something new and exciting. Now they're just the best example of something that's been around for years...Until the next one.

Isn't this more a reflection of the industry as a whole, where most games are made to fit into established genres.

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If you like free-flowing combat then yeah, it's probably good. Me, I don't know what free-flowing combat is. And I don't really wanna know, you know? So can a game with such narrow appeal really be worth a ten. Sounds like the reviewer reviewed his dream game. Which, you know, I mean, I like espressos. If there was a game about drinking espressos and it was perfect for espresso drinkers then I might give it a ten. But anybody else would be wtf!! I appreciate some people don't like everything, but it seems like about 100 people in the world are going to buy and enjoy bayonetta, seems wrong for it to get a ten for some reason. Mind you the way Edge shit out tens these days they don't have the same cachet.

Stick to Nintendo-related trolling please.

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You're too late smitty, it's been agreed that I was in fact right all along (no surprise there then, eh) and that edge 10s don't really man much these days.

Whatever the change, I would still think a ten is fair for a game at the pinnacle of its genre.

Saving it for revolutionary titles is silly, they come along very rarely. Besides there is plenty of question about what is truly revolutionary. Most people don't see to think Halo was, for reasons I can understand, but I think it's such a boring semantic discussion when you consider how fantastic the game is.

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You're too late smitty, it's been agreed that I was in fact right all along (no surprise there then, eh) and that edge 10s don't really man much these days.

On Edge's cachet perhaps, but there was much else wrong in your post.

Critics don't (or at least shouldn't) give out good scores on the basis of mass market appeal. Look at all that crap on the Wii that sells in the millions (I'm not talking about the good stuff).

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