Edge #209

[Rudi von Starnberg]

Everyone stop now. Except ramone, carry on ramone, fight the good fight.

[Uzi]

Ramone is incredible- he gets everyone debating to their best while he's talking about show jumping games as an example.

[mushashi]

I'm saying it's pretty hard to make a case for a game without broad appeal to get a ten. I'm talking about broad appeal among hardcore gamers like me and you. This game does not have it. It's like, they might bring out the worlds best show jumping game, and show jumping computer game fans might absolutely love it, think it's perfect. It's not getting a ten though, is it? Let's be honest. And why not? Well, you answer me that.

Even when Edge 10 still equalled revolutionary, Edge posthumously awarded 2 games 10/10:

Elite (originally released in 1984)

Exile (originally released in 1988)

Now how many gamers have even played, let alone heard of Exile? And Elite, blah, the genre's niche these days.

You can add the original Super Mario Bros as the only other game to be retrospectively awarded 10.

[ras el hanout]

Ok, so let me get this straight: to get a 10 the game has to be brilliant and has to appeal to everyone.

Ok...

Do you not like fighty games like Bayonetta, then? Devil May Cry, God of War, Ninja Gaiden? Not your cup of tea?

Yet you label yourself as hardcore (whatever that means). Isn't that a bit of an oxymoron?

Get this straight. To score a ten a game must have, along with brilliance, broad appeal. No, not appeal to everybody. This is the way it has been. Bayonetta has some appeal. Vemsie and a few others including the Edge reviewer think it's the cat's pyjamas.

You're saying broad appeal shouldn't come into it? Which sounds nice. Well let's take it to the extreme. Can a game that appeals to 50 people score a ten? You're saying it can, I'm suggesting it shouldn't.

Hope this helps.

I'll go further. I'd say it's easier to make a game that doesn't have broad appeal. I reckon I could make a game that appealed only to espresso drinkers.

[ras el hanout]

Because the reviewer doesn't like show jumping.

if the reviewer fucking LOVED show jumping Edge still wouldn't give it a 10. I believe that to my bones. They don't just dish them out. there is absolutely no reason a show jumping game couldn't be absolutely sweet. But it wouldn't get a ten.

[Rudi von Starnberg]

Ramone is incredible- he gets everyone debating to their best while he's talking about show jumping games as an example.

I liked the ski lodge, personally.

[Guest]

Even when Edge 10 still equalled revolutionary, Edge posthumously awarded 2 games 10/10:

Elite (originally released in 1984)

Exile (originally released in 1988)

Now how many gamers have even played, let alone heard of Exile? And Elite, blah, the genre's niche these days.

You can add the original Super Mario Bros as the only other game to be retrospectively awarded 10.

Elite 2 is better, and Exile?

SMW is the definitive 2d adventure.

[Guest]

if the reviewer fucking LOVED show jumping Edge still wouldn't give it a 10. I believe that to my bones. They don't just dish them out. there is absolutely no reason a show jumping game couldn't be absolutely sweet. But it wouldn't get a ten.

If it was about punching things. They get excited about that.

Madworld cover. Editorial "so unique" (unique, New York) and yet it was patently obvious it was not...review states as much, another case of getting soppy about a particular developer.

Etc, etc.

[Uzi]

I liked the ski lodge, personally.

I wonder how the news of the Halo 10 got up to him at the lodge- was wireless internet even around in lodges then??

[Sprite Machine]

You're saying broad appeal shouldn't come into it? Which sounds nice. Well let's take it to the extreme. Can a game that appeals to 50 people score a ten? You're saying it can, I'm suggesting it shouldn't.

Yes it can, if one of those fifty people is the reviewer and they decide they like it that much that it deserves it.

Although you seem to think a review should be a buyer's guide rather than the writer's opinion. The former requires too many assumptions if you ask me.

I'll go further. I'd say it's easier to make a game that doesn't have broad appeal. I reckon I could make a game that appealed only to espresso drinkers.

And? Something being easy to do doesn't make the end result bad. Nor does something being difficult to do make the end result good.

[Ersatz Nihilist]

Not me. And those who followed the game ever since it was announced.

Me either. Bayonetta is simply amazing. I'm not sure why there's such a vast amount of skepticism.

[Guest]

Me either. Bayonetta is simply amazing. I'm not sure why there's such a vast amount of skepticism.

I'd not really heard of it and after doing a t'internet search BAM everyone likes it.

Must play for me and I'm GLAD I know nothing about it

[ras el hanout]

I wonder how the news of the Halo 10 got up to him at the lodge- was wireless internet even around in lodges then??

Mu mum phoned me. Even back then I was a massive Ninty fan. I knew I had to get Edge's review of Xbox launch games so I got my mum to phone me and read out the scores. I had thought about cancelling the whole trip but we wouldn't get a full refund. Anyway when she read out the number at the end of the review (just the number at the end, I had to scream at her, she had been confused, didn't know what number I meant) my grip on the phone tightened. I tried to keep the rest of the call light but I was feeling dizzy, I remember it well. I had to sit down and left the reciever dangling. I could hear my mum shouting "HELLO! TEN! TEN! DID YOU HEAR ME!". Emma asked why I was so pale and I told her I'd had a big day on the moguls. I then told her about the Halo score and the lodge erupted. I just sat in the corner nursing a whiskey sour, staring.

[Wiper]

Me either. Bayonetta is simply amazing. I'm not sure why there's such a vast amount of skepticism.

Because we were suckered into buying DMC and can't believe the same person could produce a decent fighting game, never mind a brilliant one!

(I'll be getting it anyway, more fool me)

[Vemsie]

Bayonetta has some appeal. Vemsie and a few others including the Edge reviewer think it's the cat's pyjamas.

And Eurogamer, Gamersyde and dozens of others. It's not like EDGE is the lone voice out there, or that I'm the only one interested in it. It's not nearly as niche as you think it is.

But hey, perhaps you should start working on that espresso game. I can't be worse than your current posts.

[ras el hanout]

Yes it can, if one of those fifty people is the reviewer and they decide they like it that much that it deserves it.

Then we shall never agree! Good day sir, I now have you on ignore.

[Uzi]

Mu mum phoned me. Even back then I was a massive Ninty fan. I knew I had to get Edge's review of Xbox launch games so I got my mum to phone me and read out the scores. I had thought about cancelling the whole trip but we wouldn't get a full refund. Anyway when she read out the number at the end of the review (just the number at the end, I had to scream at her, she had been confused, didn't know what number I meant) my grip on the phone tightened. I tried to keep the rest of the call light but I was feeling dizzy, I remember it well. I had to sit down and left the reciever dangling. I could hear my mum shouting "HELLO! TEN! TEN! DID YOU HEAR ME!". Emma asked why I was so pale and I told her I'd had a big day on the moguls. I then told her about the Halo score and the lodge erupted. I just sat in the corner nursing a whiskey sour, staring.

[ras el hanout]

And Eurogamer, Gamersyde and dozens of others. It's not like EDGE is the lone voice out there, or that I'm the only one interested in it. It's not nearly as niche as you think it is.

But hey, perhaps you should start working on that espresso game. I can't be worse than your current posts.

A ten is VERY different from a nine. Well an Edge ten is. Or it was, now it's not. That's what I am lamenting, the death of the Edge 10 as something truly meaningful. I have no doubt Bayonetta is excellent if you like that sort of thing.

[womblingfree]

Well Zelda's big innovation was moving from 2D to 3D which was a reflection of that time in history technologically more than anything, same with Mario 64.

And in doing so they set the blue-print for the next decade of gaming. Definitely worth a 10. Actually moving those concepts from 2D to 3D requires more than a simple technological shift, they had to re-think the whole shaboodle! And they did it perfectly.

[ras el hanout]

I guess I can make it even simpler. I think that Edge should be the toughest reviewers around, not the not toughest reviewers.

[Gorf King]

Mu mum phoned me. Even back then I was a massive Ninty fan. I knew I had to get Edge's review of Xbox launch games so I got my mum to phone me and read out the scores. I had thought about cancelling the whole trip but we wouldn't get a full refund. Anyway when she read out the number at the end of the review (just the number at the end, I had to scream at her, she had been confused, didn't know what number I meant) my grip on the phone tightened. I tried to keep the rest of the call light but I was feeling dizzy, I remember it well. I had to sit down and left the reciever dangling. I could hear my mum shouting "HELLO! TEN! TEN! DID YOU HEAR ME!". Emma asked why I was so pale and I told her I'd had a big day on the moguls. I then told her about the Halo score and the lodge erupted. I just sat in the corner nursing a whiskey sour, staring.

[Vemsie]

A ten is VERY different from a nine. Well an Edge ten is. Or it was, now it's not. That's what I am lamenting, the death of the Edge 10 as something truly meaningful. I have no doubt Bayonetta is excellent if you like that sort of thing.

Well, I don't think we'll agree on this one, mate.

Sure, a ten is different from a nine, but I don't agree with your reasoning that it doesn't deserve a ten because it's too niche.

If it really is action game perfection, I don't see any reason to not give it a ten.

I guess I can make it even simpler. I think that Edge should be the toughest reviewers around, not the not toughest reviewers.

I think Bioware is firmly in the camp of toughest reviewers.

[mushashi]

A ten is VERY different from a nine. Well an Edge ten is. Or it was, now it's not. That's what I am lamenting, the death of the Edge 10 as something truly meaningful. I have no doubt Bayonetta is excellent if you like that sort of thing.

The problem must be in your mind then Ramone as the Edge 10 never quite meant what you thought it did or should mean.

[ah]

Get this straight. To score a ten a game must have, along with brilliance, broad appeal. No, not appeal to everybody. This is the way it has been.

you're saying it like it's some sort of commandment or rule or whatever when really what you mean is, in a sample size of like ten games that ever scored that high, bayonetta is the one with the least broad appeal.

sprite machine seems to have nailed it, though; you want a review to be a buyer's guide rather than a piece of opinion/criticism. i don't think that's what edge wants to be about, so there's little wonder you don't like it.

or alternatively, what he said:

The problem must be in your mind then Ramone as the Edge 10 never quite meant what you thought it did or should mean.

[ras el hanout]

The problem must be in your mind then Ramone as the Edge 10 never quite meant what you thought it did or should mean.

No, you're right, a couple of years ago it meant something. You'd think after LBP and Halo 3 and GTA4 they'd think, woah, we fucked up there, let's ease up on the tens, eh? But no, seems they've gone "Ah, fuck it." which is fair enough, I guess.

[Sprite Machine]

I guess I can make it even simpler. I think that Edge should be the toughest reviewers around, not the not toughest reviewers.

They've got their work cut out for them.

[mushashi]

No, you're right, a couple of years ago it meant something. You'd think after LBP and Halo 3 and GTA4 they'd think, woah, we fucked up there, let's ease up on the tens, eh? But no, seems they've gone "Ah, fuck it." which is fair enough, I guess.

Now that is a sentiment I could agree with, Issue 143, nevr forget.

[ras el hanout]

you're saying it like it's some sort of commandment or rule or whatever when really what you mean is, in a sample size of like ten games that ever scored that high, bayonetta is the one with the least broad appeal.

Actually I think it's just the fact that Eurogamer gave it a 9 that's bothering me. If they'd given it a ten too then I wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Eurogamer didn't get all carried away with LBP either. I guess it bothers me that a different UK publication seems to have a less excitable attitude to giving out tens than Edge, you wouldn't have been able to say that not too long ago. Yes, that's it. Mind you eurogamer aren't perfect either and have probably given out loads of tens.

[Cyhwuhx]

Me either. Bayonetta is simply amazing. I'm not sure why there's such a vast amount of skepticism.

It's a genre that is regarded as 'low-key'. You would get the same reactions here would say, FarmVille get a 10. It's not in the traditional shooter/big-adventure/sim genres so nobody accepts it. Simple as. If the next DS Zelda gets one, nobody will bat an eyelid, even though it could be a carbon-copy of its former guise. It's ' normal' for that genre, and especially that brand.

[angel]

eurogamer gave fear 2 a 5 i think, kinda crazy