Edge #209

[Stolly]

And although its not particularly relevant to dragon age, there was much made of the 360 vs PC comparison of the game and not a bean mentioned about the PS3. (The PS3 version is lovely by the way). More relevant was the Bayonetta review that didn't mention the PS3 version at all - I'm not a great fan of the 360 ~ PS3 comparisons that Eurogamer drag out but, for this game, I think its probably important. Its funny how Edge in their last magazine criticised Gameswipe for prattling on about games using simple first principles (using their Delia Smith analogy about making jam roly poly 'in order to stay alive' ) but seem to forget important first principles like, for a PS3 owner, is Bayonetta worth buying in their review!

[Orbital2060]

Bayonetta ps3 is fine.

[footle]

And although its not particularly relevant to dragon age, there was much made of the 360 vs PC comparison of the game and not a bean mentioned about the PS3. (The PS3 version is lovely by the way).

As you mention, it's irrelevant since the Dragon Age reviewer so spectacularly missed the point of the game in the first place.

Besides - the core audience for the game is on the PC, surely?

[RubberJohnny]

And although its not particularly relevant to dragon age, there was much made of the 360 vs PC comparison of the game and not a bean mentioned about the PS3. (The PS3 version is lovely by the way).

The PS3 and 360 versions are identical, those sections were really PC vs Consoles, because they were talking about the difference in things like UI, rather than anything specific to the 360 version.

More relevant was the Bayonetta review that didn't mention the PS3 version at all - I'm not a great fan of the 360 ~ PS3 comparisons that Eurogamer drag out but, for this game, I think its probably important.

It's possible that a PS3 copy wasn't made available for review, if you're looking to get good scores you might want to hide the sub-optimal versions.

[Broker]

As you mention, it's irrelevant since the Dragon Age reviewer so spectacularly missed the point of the game in the first place.

Besides - the core audience for the game is on the PC, surely?

Bioware games have been console centric for years now. This is the first game they've made which has had a simaltaneous (sp?) PC release for ages.

[Rudi von Starnberg]

Indeed, although Dragon Age was a PC exclusive until relatively late in development. It's definitely a case of the PC being the lead platform, in this case.

[Shagger]

WTF, Bayonetta a 10, lol.

Jesus, what happened to the days that only special games i.e. Mario 64, Zelda: OOT, GT, etc, got deserved perfect scores. Now, mags just throw out perfect scores fucking willy-nilly.

Also, why review the worst version of Dragon Age: Origins i.e. the 360/console version and not the best version the of game i.e. the PC version? Honestly, Edge is fucked. I'm just glad the last issue i bought of the mag was 5 years ago. The mag isn't worth the paper it's printed on!

[Cyhwuhx]

Jesus, what happened to the days that only special games i.e. Mario 64, Zelda: OOT, GT, etc, got deserved perfect scores. Now, mags just throw out perfect scores fucking willy-nilly.

See? People don't accept the genre.

[Shagger]

See? People don't accept the genre.

I've played and completed the game. For me personally the game is a good 8, but it's never the 10 edge make it out to be. Nowhere near it...

[Guest]

Hmm according to GamesTM Japanese column the storyline to Bayonetta is crazy, mental, makes no sense...

Where was this in the Edge review

[Cyhwuhx]

I've played and completed the game. For me personally the game is a good 8, but it's never the 10 edge make it out to be. Nowhere near it...

A lot of people felt the same about Halo. Hell, I still think OOT is unworthy of a 10. But where discussions about OOT and Halo are supported by the games themselves, everybody seems to just gun down Bayonetta beforehand.

Even you now tell us it's "nowhere near it". Why then? So far the most common reply to why the 10 isn't valid is "because it's not worth it". That to me , seems as if nobody can believe nor accept that a game from a 'downtrodden genre' like a action-slasher can even score a 10.

[Cheeko]

Honestly, Edge is fucked. I'm just glad the last issue i bought of the mag was 5 years ago. The mag isn't worth the paper it's printed on!

Edge is better off without people like you reading it anyway, that's a ridiculous statement and an insult to the hard work that goes into that magazine. A pathetic comment.

[Shagger]

A lot of people felt the same about Halo. Hell, I still think OOT is unworthy of a 10. But where discussions about OOT and Halo are supported by the games themselves, everybody seems to just gun down Bayonetta beforehand.

Even you now tell us it's "nowhere near it". Why then? So far the most common reply to why the 10 isn't valid is "because it's not worth it". That to me , seems as if nobody can believe nor accept that a game from a 'downtrodden genre' like a action-slasher can even score a 10.

A 10 should be genre changing, Bayonetta doesn't do this as it's just DMC with a vagina. Well, that's what i thought when i played and completed the game.

It's a good game, but nothing special as a 10 indicates.

[Stanley]

Surely you meant 'genre defining', which from what I've read is exactly what it is?

[Vemsie]

Are you a fan of the genre then, Shagger? A true fan I mean.

Because it's basically the finest example of the genre yet, eclipsing rather brilliant action games like Viewtiful Joe, DMC 3 and God Hand. It's much, much more than DMC ever was. I listed a few differences between the two earlier in this thread and the Bayonetta one, as did others. To get a little bit technical (and I copied pasted this as it's a good summary and I couldn't be arsed to type it all myself ):

- Nearly every move is cancelable at any time with a jump or an evade or standard gunfire. It is no exaggeration to say Bayonetta's responsiveness vastly exceeds every other action game on the market.

- Every hit of every combo can be extended or charged for additional damage. This also gives you perfect control over the timing of attacks.

- Every combo can be interrupted by up to four dodges and then resumed with the next hit in sequence.

- Every hit (except the first) of every combo can be skipped with dodges, allowing you to evade enemies then immediately counterattack with any attack you choose, including the ultrapowerful Wicked Weave finishers.

- With minor exceptions, Bayonetta's full move list is available in the air. Let me repeat that. Nearly every attack and maneuver you can perform on the ground you can also do while you're airborne, including—and this is critical—the evasive roll.

- Certain combos flow seamlessly into others if the finisher of the first has a different input than the starter of the second.

- With the pistols equipped, you can shoot while dodging by holding either attack button, allowing you to continue juggles and retain your combo score as you avoid damage.

- Witch Time is a significant innovation in that it utterly changes the flow of battle. With good timing, your dodge can turn a dire moment into one of considerable advantage.

- In the full game, seamless and unrestricted animal transformations introduce new combat options by summoning knives with a variety of applications, greatly increasing your maneuverability, and more. Not to mention all the gameplay-altering accessories.

That's the tip of the iceberg. Bayonetta is an action gamer's wet dream. If you don't care about this stuff, fine, don't buy the game, but don't try to get away with the fatuous lie that Bayonetta is "just a DMC clone."

With thanks to GAF.

As Halo hold a special place in FPS hearts, so does this in the hearts of us action gamers. It's absolutely brilliant, crazily freeform and insanely deep. I don't see why it's not a 10. It's the pinnacle of the genre.

[Guest]

Edge is better off without people like you reading it anyway, that's a ridiculous statement and an insult to the hard work that goes into that magazine. A pathetic comment.

Not that I agree with what shagger said, yet to play devils advocate; I wonder how those who spent years of their life at Bioware feel to be awarded a 5/10 in a review that seems to not mention much about the actual game, yet plenty about the story?

Opinion is opinion, yet those who review videogames seem to be absolved of wrong doing because it's an opinion. Even if, for example, the review has been badly written, or the game hasn't been played as much as it should have.

[Guest]

As Halo hold a special place in FPS hearts, so does this in the hearts of us action gamers. It's absolutely brilliant, crazily freeform and insanely deep. I don't see why it's not a 10. It's the pinnacle of the genre.

Halo is quite an interesting package though.

With co-op allowed through the main storyline, which works superbly, and a LAN mode that is brilliant...additionally you'd say that Halo can be picked up by those without much in the way of interest of FPS games and yet they'd still get on with it. That is part of the genius of Halo, it will preach to those who are not already converted.

Can we say the same for Bayonetta?

And thus, were NTSC-UK correct in giving Tekki (yup the Jap version) a perfect score?

[Mr Cochese]

We have to bomb these wrongdoers in their foxholes before they preach to converts.

[Vemsie]

That is part of the genius of Halo, it will preach to those who are not already converted.

Can we say the same for Bayonetta?

I can't speak for everybody of those. I think the old mantra 'easy to pick up and hard to master' applies to Bayonetta. Casuals can have fun with it, but it's ultimately a game that appeals to a more hardcore crowd. In a genre that is nowhere nears as big as the FPS genre. So no, I don't think it can be compared to Halo in that respect. But just as Halo rewrote the rules for the genre, so does Bayonetta.

It's a brilliant game, which ultimately is what matters for me.

As for Tekki, I haven't played that but if it's brilliant it deserves a top score. I think product shoudl be judged on whether or not they're any good, not whether or not they reach a mass audience.

But I believe that discussion already happened.

It's basically the notion that Bayonetta is just a female DMC that I'm having trouble with. They share the same genre, but like Tekken and Virtua Fighter they're actually quite different in the end.

[Stolly]

Not that I agree with what shagger said, yet to play devils advocate; I wonder how those who spent years of their life at Bioware feel to be awarded a 5/10 in a review that seems to not mention much about the actual game, yet plenty about the story?

Opinion is opinion, yet those who review videogames seem to be absolved of wrong doing because it's an opinion. Even if, for example, the review has been badly written, or the game hasn't been played as much as it should have.

Totally agree - critics have to be able to take criticism. And the Dragon Age review from Edge is fast looking like their biggest fuck up yet. I mean the story is not "banal" as Edge put it but is exactly the other end of the spectrum; its truly brilliant (well bit that I've seen so far is any way). The side quips and conversations of the various characters, which the Edge review disliked so much, are not annoying in the slightest either; they're often funny and never intrusive. The console battle system is good fun too, if a bit chaotic, and works fine - why the Edge review picked up on this I'm not sure. Even if they had a real concern, then maybe they should have gone the whole hog and reviewed the PC version anyway. Bioware should sue them

[ZOK]

We have to bomb these wrongdoers in their foxholes before they preach to converts.

[DC Lemon]

Surely you meant 'genre defining', which from what I've read is exactly what it is?

Genre defiling in the case of Bayonetta.

[Vemsie]

No, genre defining. That's exactly what it is.

[KieronGillen]

as it's just DMC with a vagina.

I think you'll find that DMC has never been sort of cunts.

KG

[Shagger]

Edge is better off without people like you reading it anyway, that's a ridiculous statement and an insult to the hard work that goes into that magazine. A pathetic comment.

[Uzi]

So whose alt is shagger?

[ianinthefuture]

No, genre defining. That's exactly what it is.

Absolutely. I can't get the game out of my head, and while I won't say it's an iron-clad 10 on 10, I can definitely see many viable arguments as to why it should get top marks.

In summary: Bayonetta is fucking brilliant.

[Smitty]

As Halo hold a special place in FPS hearts, so does this in the hearts of us action gamers. It's absolutely brilliant, crazily freeform and insanely deep. I don't see why it's not a 10. It's the pinnacle of the genre.

Yeah and that's clear to me, even as a layman to the genre.

[Broker]

half-life is the pinnacle of the genre

edit: i'm sorry, i thought the post above mine refered to halo, which i now see it does not. I feel however that my point stands, as half-life is fucking awesome

[Made of Ghosts]

It is odd that people are complaining about there being too many tens these days. Let's not forget that the first three all came within two and a half years (and so did Goldeneye, which should've got one). They have been more frequent since then, but so what? Why is rarity such a virtue? A lot of people on here reckon games are better than they've ever been. The tens have been erratically distributed, but that's a good sign, isn't it? It means Edge aren't too bothered about making them seem random (cf people saying Half-Life didn't get a ten because it was in the same issue as Ocarina), and are actually giving them out when they think they're deserved rather than thinking "ooh, we haven't had one in a while, what's good at the mo?".