Strategy Civilization V

[RubberJohnny]

Civ V is a bit schizophrenic over how multiplayer friendly it is. The Diplomacy AI is basically like people would act in an MP game - they'll all focus on you if you're in the lead, and play nice until they backstab you. This'd be a fine way to make MP and SP play similarly, but MP is terribly implemented and no-one plays it, so...

The game has loads of rough edges and strange design decisions that come from it not having enough time/money in development. It was very buggy at release. The new expansion looks very good at addressing some of these.

[deerokus]

That was my biggest problem with Civ V, most of the changes and simplifications and so forth from previous games seemed to be in service of multiplayer focus, despite being very impractical to play in multiplayer for the vast majority. The result being that it made the game feel like you were playing a multiplayer game against bots. As you say, it's kind of odd.

The first big expansion seemed to add enough back to the game to make it feel a bit more like Civ for me, at least.

[Endemion]

Civ V is a bit schizophrenic over how multiplayer friendly it is. The Diplomacy AI is basically like people would act in an MP game - they'll all focus on you if you're in the lead, and play nice until they backstab you. This'd be a fine way to make MP and SP play similarly, but MP is terribly implemented and no-one plays it, so...

The game has loads of rough edges and strange design decisions that come from it not having enough time/money in development. It was very buggy at release. The new expansion looks very good at addressing some of these.

That was my biggest problem with Civ V, most of the changes and simplifications and so forth from previous games seemed to be in service of multiplayer focus, despite being very impractical to play in multiplayer for the vast majority. The result being that it made the game feel like you were playing a multiplayer game against bots. As you say, it's kind of odd.

The first big expansion seemed to add enough back to the game to make it feel a bit more like Civ for me, at least.

See, this is the thing, I agree with all that but then... Why no mods in MP? If you've even looked at the MP screen, it has a column for each game saying if it has mods or not but they will all say no as you can't turn them on...

Which is odd, been like that since launch, Let us use them ffs, I have some nice maps, or if not hide that option/marker as it's just taunting people!

Then, you can only turn on 41 City States max in SP iirc but you can do 42 in MP? er, why? (This may be the other way around I can't remember)

Also, can we have more than 12 slots for MP, even if the extra are "only" AI slots and not people.

As you can possibly tell, I am one of those mad fuckers who plays this MP, though mostly as Co-op fun with a couple of mates. Why can't we choose to have the full 22 Civs in MP, the three of us who normally play all have Comps that can cope with that, why can't we have mods on and use some of the cool maps etc?

*Grumble*

Even if none of the above changes, I will still spend a daft number of hours on this before and after the new expansion, *sigh*

[deerokus]

That's true, especially odd since as I recall Civ IV, which was much less MP friendly, did support mods in multiplayer.

Man Civ IV had some fantastic mods, loads of which were essentially entirely new games. is there anything for V as good as the Fall From Heaven 2 and Planetfall mods/total conversions, for example? Planetfall was very Alpha Centauri-esque.

[RubberJohnny]

I don't think so, the SDK they released was really very limited compared to Civ IV. If I were cynical I'd say that was down to wanting to sell DLC, but it was probably just the not enough time/money thing.

[Straps]

So what are the essential mods for this? I had some UI thing called Bug for IV that I remember being really useful, anything like that or game tweaks?

[Frosty]

It got announced a couple days ago, I just forgot to say anything. Next two Civs announced.

Indonesia and Morrocco.

Indonesia are led by Gajah Mada and have the Spice Islanders ability : The first 3 cities founded on continents other than where Indonesia started each provide 2 unique Luxury Resources (and can never be razed).

And have a unique swordsman unit, the Kris Swordsman that receives a free random promotion after their first combat. Bit weird but ok.

And a unique Garden - the Candi - that gives faith.

Interesting but sound a little bit fiddly and dependent on luck. The extra faith on a garden is obviously dependent on terrain and comes a bit too late to really help with founding a religion. Meanwhile the unique ability encourages mid game expansion and obviously depends on the map, but two unique luxuries? That's strong, that is basically a 'free' 4 pop city without any extra buildings e.t.c and can presumably be sold as well. Could allow you to get all three out very fast after you've discovered compass.

Morocco are led by Ahmed Al-Mansur and have the Gateway to Africa ability: Receives +3 Gold and +1 Culture for each International Trade Route with a different civ or City-State. The Trade Route owners receive +2 Gold for each Trade Route sent to Morocco.

Unique unit is the Berber Cavalry that is stronger when fighting in Desert and/or Moroccan territory, replaces Cavalry. Sounds very much my style of unit - getting a Mehal Sefari from a Militaristic state or a Berber while playing as Ethiopia the same way would be awesome.

Unique Improvement is the Kasbah which I'm sure will have an achievement for pillaging. Must be built on desert, gives 1 food, gold and production and a 50% defence boost. Comes with Chivalry. Imagine getting this combined with Petra and Desert Folklore. Woof.

I really like the sound of Morocco. Gods and Kings made the Desert start very attractive with Desert Folklore pretty much guaranteeing you a religion even on Deity - and often first pick at one too. Need to actually play with trade to really understand how strong the ability is but anything gold related is powerful - it translates well into any style of victory. I have a personal preference to play defensively as well and that seems to be what Morocco is all about.

[Scruff]

Unique Improvement is the Kasbah which I'm sure will have an achievement for pillaging .rocking. Must be built on desert, gives 1 food, gold and production and a 50% defence boost. Comes with Chivalry. Imagine getting this combined with Petra and Desert Folklore. Woof.

I really like the sound of Morocco. Gods and Kings made the Desert start very attractive with Desert Folklore pretty much guaranteeing you a religion even on Deity - and often first pick at one too. Need to actually play with trade to really understand how strong the ability is but anything gold related is powerful - it translates well into any style of victory. I have a personal preference to play defensively as well and that seems to be what Morocco is all about.

[JPR]

Policies & Ideologies trailer, looks like it's shaping up to be a really good addition to the game.

[imp]

That looks just phenomenal. I wonder if I can play as the remaining 15 or so civilizations I've never touched before then...

[Frosty]

Have you tried Sweden yet? They're brilliant to play as. The Hun are fun if you want to win before turn 20

[Sirloin]

The Candi sounds like it'll be a right pain to make work, more effective the more religions in the city?

[imp]

Have you tried Sweden yet? They're brilliant to play as. The Hun are fun if you want to win before turn 20

Are the hun any good for a long term domination victory? It's been a while since I've gone for one of them, and I'm a little bored of science and cultural victories. And, well, diplomatic victory always seems like such a gamble. I've never really tried for a domination victory with more than six civs...

[Guest]

I got Civ IV back when it came out, and loved it for many years, but I've since lost it.

On Steam, Civ IV Complete (all DLC) is £15, and Civ V (no DLC) is £20.

Any opinions on which I'd be best going for? Does V offer anything significant over IV?

EDIT - Decided that £15 for Civ IV Complete was a bargain anyway and purchased it. Will play the shit out of it then look at Civ V.

[deerokus]

V has much better combat - hex-based, meaning no more stacks of doom - and is a lot more accessible, but is a bit of a step back in most other ways from Civ IV for those who loved Civ IV. It's odd, it ended up a little bit more like a war game than a 4X, in many ways, which I found disappointing.

Of course, V hasn't had all its expansions yet, and they made IV the glory that it is. Anyway, IV is the better deal there for you, I feel.

[Frosty]

The Candi sounds like it'll be a right pain to make work, more effective the more religions in the city?

It's +2 faith for each world religion that has at least one follower in the city. I think Indonesia is going to be all about settling far away from your capital - so you might drop a city down on a foreign continent that could have 3 or 4 other Civs with their own religions and then just allow the religion to spread to the city naturally, which will be difficult because the odds of finding the space for a city that also has a river/lake is slim. +2 faith isn't really worth more hassle than that. I don't think it's a particularly good unique building.

Are the hun any good for a long term domination victory? It's been a while since I've gone for one of them, and I'm a little bored of science and cultural victories. And, well, diplomatic victory always seems like such a gamble. I've never really tried for a domination victory with more than six civs...

If you can dominate your continent/neighbours very early on and get the momentum of a large puppet empire (maybe annex the capitals) then yes, they are perfect for long term domination. You have to knock out your immediate rivals asap though because all the Hun's units are in the classical era and because you'll be teching for them and not beelining for the national college you'll wind up a long way behind with nothing useful to catch back up with.

[DjSatansfur3h]

The one wish I had, which they never seem to implement is making the game last a bit longer. I know this can be tweaked by changing the turn settings, but to me the standard game length is...I wouldn't say too 'short', but you seem to spend next to no time at all in the 19/20th century eras and not much longer in the modern era.

[imp]

I think that's because they tend to acknowledge the end game as the weakest part of the experience, as most of the excitement of exploration and colonial expansion is over by that point. The new DLC aims to make the end-game much more interesting, which I whole-heartedly welcome!

Has anyone had a go on the "play europe" mod? It features a fairly detailed map of Europe, the close middle east and north Africa (comparable with the Crusader Kings II map), and pits 15 or so civs against each other, in their proper geographical starting points. I've been watching a bit of a playthrough on youtube, where the dude is playing as rome and it looks really fun. I was thinking of starting as England and seeing if I could subjugate the rest of Europe with a domination victory, but maybe I should try that playing as the Hun or Sweden on second thought...

[Guest]

Is now a bad time to point out you can get Civ IV and V and Xcom in the Amazon sale for $20?

Oh, damn!

Would I not need a US Amazon account, and a US Steam account though?

[Endemion]

I think that's because they tend to acknowledge the end game as the weakest part of the experience, as most of the excitement of exploration and colonial expansion is over by that point. The new DLC aims to make the end-game much more interesting, which I whole-heartedly welcome!

Has anyone had a go on the "play europe" mod? It features a fairly detailed map of Europe, the close middle east and north Africa (comparable with the Crusader Kings II map), and pits 15 or so civs against each other, in their proper geographical starting points. I've been watching a bit of a playthrough on youtube, where the dude is playing as rome and it looks really fun. I was thinking of starting as England and seeing if I could subjugate the rest of Europe with a domination victory, but maybe I should try that playing as the Hun or Sweden on second thought...

I have the play Europe one but not tried it yet, I like the stupidly large "Play the world extended" map again with correct locations etc that I have. It really is huge though, be warned

[Frosty]

hnnggg impatient for more news.

Couple of things I've learned just recently:

The 'Prora' a massive 20 000 capacity beach resort built by the Nazis for the 'Strength through Joy' programme is a new wonder. It is basically identical to the existing Eiffel Tower wonder but unlocks at Flight. What I found interesting though is that it requires you to have taken the Autocracy ideology branch. Which I presume means the Statue of Liberty will be a Freedom exclusive now and the Kremlin will be Order exclusive. I know the Kremlin has moved in the tech tree and replaced by a new wonder at Metallurgy - I suspect it will have a different effect as well because currently it is rubbish.

Rationalism has been given a nerf. It now only gives 10% science boost and only one free tech upon completion. Coupled with policies now being cheaper and the way trade helps with science it will hopefully make science less of a deciding factor in games and free the player up a bit to pursue other parts of the tech tree. In theory anyway, I have my doubts and fear it will just make it even harder for non-science civs to keep up but we will have to see.

The last two civs look overwhelmingly likely to be Venice and a Native American civ. Apparently they wanted to do the Pueblos, which would have been cool and a good contrast to the East Coast Iroquois (represent) but they couldn't get permission from the modern Pueblos. Shame but fair enough. The Sioux are most likely by virtue of being in the games before, but a lot of people think the fact they wanted the Pueblos indicates a desire to do something unusual.

I also had another thought about the Candi. Trade routes will make it a lot easier to get multiple religions into your city while maintaining control over which religion is dominant. Still tricky to use effectively but suddenly it sounds viable to have a building that gives +8 faith +25% great people generation and +2 happiness with religious choices. That's quite powerful and attractive, especially in a tall empire.

[Endemion]

Trade routes will make it a lot easier to get multiple religions into your city while maintaining control over which religion is dominant.

Must have missed this, does Religion spread along the new trade routes? Does how long they are effect how quickly it spreads etc or don't know yet?

[Frosty]

I don't know precisely but I don't think the length of the route matters so much. I think the relative sizes of the connected cities and the religious pressure of each is the decisive factor. So if you want to adopt a certain religion in a city open up a route with that religion's holy city to almost guarantee conversion.

[Frosty]

Oh and apparently rationalism and piety are no longer exclusive.

[Blu3Flame]

Ouch, I've just seen the price for the new expansion.

[Garwoofoo]

Ouch, I've just seen the price for the new expansion.

It's OK, it'll be a fiver by Christmas. And you won't want to play it till it's been patched anyway.

[Scruff]

Ouch, I've just seen the price for the new expansion.

GMG and Steam have 10% the pre-order atm, but GMG also have this 25% off code GMG25-GDSAK-7FPWQ. which takes it down to £13:50.

[paddyo]

So what are the essential mods for this? I had some UI thing called Bug for IV that I remember being really useful, anything like that or game tweaks?

I'm interested to hear what mods you guys play with too

[Danster]

75% off Civ 4. & 5 this weekend!

[Frosty]

I've been away a few days and apparently the last two civs have been leaked.

They are Venice, led by Enrico Dandolo and the Shoshone led by Chief Pocatello.

The Shoshone have the "Great Expanse" ability and get extra terrain when they found their cities, along with a combat bonus for fighting in their own territory.

They get a unique scout called a Pathfinder that moves and sees like a scout but has a warrior's combat strength. They also get to pick what bonus they get when they find ancient ruins. I presume they just get to pick out of 2 or 3 options because this could be a little strong otherwise. For instance picking the one that gives 60 faith three times for an early religion, or getting a big tech advantage early on. Either way it is a cool unique unit because it's one you'll get to use every game, and usually for a really long time even after it has become obsolete as a military unit.

They also get 'Comanche Raiders', which are cheaper than the cavalry it replaces and can move further.

Venice are the Civ that were described as being so far out of the box as to require their own seperate hypercube. I don't know about that but they certainly are unique.

Their ability is 'Serenissima'. They get double the number of trade routes but cannot create settlers (!) or annex cities. Only puppet them.

Their unique unit is the 'Merchant of Venice'. You get a free one on discovering Optics and he can be used to buy and puppet a City State. Similar to Austria, I don't know yet if they need to be allies or if it costs extra gold or just the merchant or whatever.

They also get the Great Galleass, which is a more expensive, stronger Galleass.

I think this might be an indicator of how strong Trade is going to be in game because if 'double the number' equates to being forced into only having one city capable of production then it must be good. Venice will depend on gold to be able to produce enough to compete at the highest difficulties.

None of this is actually confirmed, it's all from a leaked preview.