Dragon Age 2

[Wiper]

Aye, me and another person on here have had that bug too (well, minus the romance part at least; I was far too busy shagging Anders to give a toss about some random elf girl ) - it's absolutely awful that it slipped through. Hurray for ruining a story!

[Wiper]

That said, I never got the romance achievement for Anders, even though he moved in and we totally had (fully clothed) sex. Admittedly I didn't bother pushing for further sex scenes...

[Hexx]

That said, I never got the romance achievement for Anders, even though he moved in and we totally had (fully clothed) sex. Admittedly I didn't bother pushing for further sex scenes...

The Achievement is for "completing" the romance - not just getting your rocks off!

For Anders

You have to side with him at the end, and run away together after the final battle

Not sure about the others.

[Wiper]

Ah, I

told him he could come with me to make up for his crime, then made clear that after the battle we would be over. However, despite this the game closed with the epilogue that we left Kirkwall together. So I got the worst of both worlds - the ending choosing to ignore the bit where I decided that continuing a romance with a homicidal cretin wasn't a brilliant idea, but the achievement registering the decision. Thanks, Dragon Age!

[Talk Show Host]

I still can't believe that I had to constantly press A for my warrior attack...

I was told that the auto attack change is in the wheel later on.

...Though after a quick search I couldn't find it...

[RareBirds]

Finished this earlier - really enjoyed it. I thought the story was really good and your part in it a good deal more interesting than DA1; if it wasn't for the various bugs and achievements not pinging then I'd do another playthrough to see how much decisions altered things. Compare this to the first one, where each decision felt like a binary choice (help wolves or elves, help mages or templars etc) where I thought about another playthrough purely to get the achievements for the alternate choices at each point but couldn't be arsed. As soon as there's a couple of patches I'll definitely play it again.

To me it seemed that Bioware set out to push the ramifications of the world they had set up in DA1 as far as they could, and when it worked well (I thought Veric, Merrill and Anders, although he's a grade A cunt, had really good storylines) it was really good. I think that's why things like the main character choosing a mage and no one giving a shit grate so much, because a lot of the NPC is so well written and the world works so well. And then things like ...

Your mother's head being used to make a zombie

Serve as light relief. My girlfriend, who generally takes a dim view of most things game related (I blame Bayonetta), thought that whole sequence was hilarious.

I really liked the feeling of this festering system coming to the boil that, in spite of (or because of) your actions, was still going to get completely fucked. As sign posted as it all was ...

I was generally pretty pro Quanari and supported them and the people who wished to join the Qun or whatever, Then when the leader ordered them to attack me etc I just thought "You fucking bastard" and took great glee in killing every last one of them. Similarly with Anders, he really fucking annoyed me but I still couldn't bring myself to kill him and although I told him to piss off I still put him back in my party for the last fights.

I thought it was really good at that sort of silly, Saturday afternoon action romp, emotional engagement.

[Hexx]

Wait...

You tell Anders to piss off and he's still at the last fight? I thought he just legged it...

[RareBirds]

Wait...

You tell Anders to piss off and he's still at the last fight? I thought he just legged it...

I sided with the mages, but told Anders to cock off rather than kill him or forgive him for being a massive murderer who had just doomed Kirkwall to war. When I got to wherever it was that the mages are making their last stand he was there and I could put him back in my party for the last series of fights after talking to everyone.

[Hexx]

Well...is that intended or a bug?

Because surely he shouldn't be there if you've told him to cock off!

[RareBirds]

Well...is that intended or a bug?

Because surely he shouldn't be there if you've told him to cock off!

I presume intended. He wasn't part of my party immediately after he'd blown up the circle and I fought my way across Kirkwall to the mages as he'd ran off with his tail between his legs - at the point I only had 4 people to choose from including me, as Bethany was dead, Fenris (or whatever his name was) had joined the other side and Isabella had disappeared with the relic. However, it makes a certain amount of sense to me (I have been drinking) that he would then bunker up with the rest of the mages, he was amongst the other mages there and at that point (after you have the opportunity to talk to each of your party members that still followed you) that you could reinvite him.

Edit - Oh and Sebastian, he left as well as I wouldn't kill Anders

[df0]

I am now playing as a Mage (talk about overpowered, I make shit explode all over the place) and this play through I

side with the Templars

. Does feel a tad awkward to be honest, might restart over and follow that path on my Rogue play through.

[Matt Defis]

I am now playing as a Mage (talk about overpowered, I make shit explode all over the place) and this play through I

side with the Templars

. Does feel a tad awkward to be honest, might restart over and follow that path on my Rogue play through.

I did exactly the same thing and switched at the end of act 1, it all felt a bit weird.

[Guest]

I've been trying to get into Dragons Age Origins, again.

The whole "full inventory" nonsense that plagues bioware games still afflicts this one; and I really am finding it hard to get over the awful voice acting and weird story.

At the same time I've started Mass Effect 2 recently and it's just sublime, the first also had really great voice acting. How are these games so different; even though I've got DA on PC and ME on Xbox, DA looks a little bit rough in places.

Just me? The thing is I've always been a massive fantasy fan, DA:O really failed to grab me.

[Monkeyboy]

I've just done The Longest Road quest for Aveline:

Ha-ha! Her fear of asking the guard out on a date was rather sweet really.

[Harsin]

Bah I missed out on the romance achievement. Somehow I managed to miss out recruiting Isabella, so kept assuming for the longest time that I'd be getting another female party member, by the time I realised my mistake it was too late, one female party member was already spoken for and the other was my sister. In desperation I ran to Anders' and Fenris' hideouts to see if they'd quickly shag me, but it was to no avail as I'd already squandered my chances there. That's right, I'd sell my virtual arse for 25 gamerpoints.

[RareBirds]

Bah I missed out on the romance achievement. Somehow I managed to miss out recruiting Isabella, so kept assuming for the longest time that I'd be getting another female party member, by the time I realised my mistake it was too late, one female party member was already spoken for and the other was my sister. In desperation I ran to Anders' and Fenris' hideouts to see if they'd quickly shag me, but it was to no avail as I'd already squandered my chances there. That's right, I'd sell my virtual arse for 25 gamerpoints.

I completed the Merrill romance subplot for the achievement (which unlocked just before the final battle) but bizarrely, in his summing up at the end, Verric said words to the effect of:

"We all lost contact with the Champion over time, except for Isobellla of course" which was weird as she'd buggered off with the relic just before the end of act 2.

[Swallow]

I've just done The Longest Road quest for Aveline:

Ha-ha! Her fear of asking the guard out on a date was rather sweet really.

Aveline and Varric's quests were written by the same guy who wrote Mordin, Garrus and Wrex, I'm told. It really shows, they're leagues better than virtually every other plot strand in the game.

[Talk Show Host]

So, to clear things up.

The dreadfull bug of Hawke slowing down when you gain the friendship achievement of Isabella, does it occur only with Isabella?

Can we safely get the other friendship achievements?

[RareBirds]

So, to clear things up.

The dreadfull bug of Hawke slowing down when you gain the friendship achievement of Isabella, does it occur only with Isabella?

Can we safely get the other friendship achievements?

Sebastian's is bugged as well - not sure what the effect is and whether it's as game breaking but I didn't put him in my party other than for his specific missions just in case.

[footle]

Aveline and Varric's quests were written by the same guy who wrote Mordin, Garrus and Wrex, I'm told. It really shows, they're leagues better than virtually every other plot strand in the game.

Really?

Aveline's quest strand wasn't good; though I did like the last part of Varric's. Merril's plot strand left both of them for dead, or would have done if it hadn't seemed a bit bugged.

[Talk Show Host]

Sebastian's is bugged as well - not sure what the effect is and whether it's as game breaking but I didn't put him in my party other than for his specific missions just in case.

Yeah. If you won't befriend them though it doesn't kick in.

Any other serious bugs? Is Black Emporium fine?

[Swallow]

I can't believe they pulled the same trick with the post-game save as Origins. You can only play future rip-off DLC, not the quests you were looking forward to doing before you got pulled into the end-game with no warning. Cock right off.

[Wiper]

I can't believe they pulled the same trick with the post-game save as Origins. You can only play future rip-off DLC, not the quests you were looking forward to doing before you got pulled into the end-game with no warning.

Okay, there are many criticisms to be levelled at DA2, and I suppose you could consider 'not being able to carry on after the ending' as one* but, er, with no warning? It's pretty bloody clear about what quests are 'points of no return' throughout, and that certainly includes the ending.

*though as it's hardly a standard feature of Bioware games, reliant on specific types of ending as it is, I'm not sure why you'd expect it. The only game I can think of of theirs that allowed for that has been ME2.

[nietzschedancing]

He definitely has a point.

Accepting the final quest (which is easy enough to do as it's from the writing desk, IIRC), completely locks out the Docks and any outstanding business you have there. Why they couldn't have had Meredith or Orsino simply stand there and allow you to initiate the quest from there (and with an explicit warning) is beyond me. I've known quite a few people to be bitten by it, particularly as Act 3 reaches its crescendo so quickly.

[Swallow]

Considering how clear it's made before the Deep Roads and whatever the hell happens at the end of Act II that you should clear any outstanding business before continuing, I was expecting the same courtesy for the finale. Instead, as said, I roll up to the docks to hand in some other quests and two hours later, after some of the most plot- and motivation-betraying bullshit ever seen, it's all over bar the smoking jacket. Considering the game's entire narrative conceit, how hard would it have been to work out a way of letting you clear your outstanding quests? I know that I can reload an earlier save, but as my last save is before I killed a bloody great dragon and the game didn't have the politeness to make an autosave before the end-game (I checked as soon as I realised it was underway) I don't feel inclined to play it again. Really put a downer on my experience of the game, especially as the ending is so bloody awful.

[Wiper]

Hmm, I'd forgotten that it was simply accepting the letter that set things in motion, rather than anything more. Clearly a few weeks is too much for my brilliant memory

Agreed on the ending being a complete load of bobbins, anyway. Not necessarily the actions of Captain Dickface McHealerman, which while spectacularly idiotic do actually fit in with his screwed up personality, but the reactions of

Orsino (effectively justifying the templars' approach - look, even the most seemingly-reasonable mages randomly know some obscene, completely unbalanced blood magic) and Meredith (um, you what?) are just, well, absurd. To be honest, I think the ending would've been a lot better if it only made you have the one boss fight, depending on your decisions. Hell, it'd even have the fun narrative benefit of meaning Hawke would feel justified in whichever prejudice they sympathised with most. Speaking of which, there really should have been a neutral 'screw you guys, I'm getting out of this crazy city' option, rather than being forced to side with one group or the other.

[Swallow]

Good post on GameFAQs about the ending. Spoilers follow.

"Bioware is clearly laying it on thick so you don't sympathize with the mages too much - because everyone would side with the mages otherwise...you can see why Bioware had to do what they did in order to make it seem like both sides were evil."

Absolutely not. You're making excuses for crappy writing..

BioWare should not have made both sides seem evil. I don't care that that's what they wanted; it doesn't improve the narrative. If both sides are evil, the player can't sympathize with either one and will only pick a side for the sake of continuing the game, thus rendering the choice meaningless no matter what lengths BioWare might have gone to to give the choice meaning (which they didn't do anyway). If both sides are good there's no conflict and thus no plot.

As it stands, all we have is a bunch of crazy demon consorts and a bunch of crazy drug addicts. Why doesn't Hawke just declare her own Special Right of Annulment that dictates she kill all mages and all templars? Hawke wouldn't be in the wrong for thinking that, so the conflict falls apart and all we're left with is a middle-aged stoner with a lightsaber pretending to be Ichigo and animating metal statues.

The player needs to see the positive and negative aspects of both factions in order to properly evaluate them. To that end, the story needed the following:

-A faction system. Templars vs. Mages is the main plot but it really only comes into itself in Act 3. The player needs to be directly introduced to the conflict early on and given Templar/Mage choices to make all throughout the three Acts. Which is what we got, but none of those choices amounted to anything. The game would have been better off if you made a choice early on in Act 1 and, through that choice, joined either the Mages or the Templars, with the opportunity to switch factions as the story progresses depending on whether your choices are pro-mage or pro-templar. Persistent loyalty to a faction would grant the player blah blah gameplay blah and since you would be working directly with one faction and directly against another faction you'd be able to see the operations of both factions first-hand instead of always being asked to react to events and conflicts that have already occurred.

-Mages in Kirkwall who aren't trying to kill you. It's very hard to build sympathy for a group of people you can't see.

-Mages who resist the temptation of blood magic OR mages who use blood magic but are neither insane nor evil. We only get one example of this, Merrill, who is completely irrelevant to the main plot. As I said in my recently deleted topic, Orsino could and should have been the prime example of this. Mind you, had Orsino and Merrill been the only examples it still wouldn't work.

-Mages who actually help Kirkwall, using their gifts to make the city a better place.

-Mages who use blood magic for positive things. As Merrill says, blood magic is just like any other magic; it is not inherently evil even if its contemporary form comes from demons. What matters is who uses it and how it is used. I'm sure you can think of positive applications for telekinesis and mind control.

-More hands-on evidence of the torment mages go through. This is one of the major reasons why Anders' already ridiculous characterization falls apart within itself. The player doesn't experience that many instances of mages being mistreated so it's almost impossible to see things from Anders' point of view. These events are told quite often but they need to be shown. One of the most shocking examples is when it's said (by Orsino or Anders, I forget who) that mages are being made Tranquil for the most minor and trivial of offenses. Which the player never gets to see, interact with or act in response to.

---

Official Ignorance Police Chief of the Dragon Age 2 board.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/988968-dragon-age-ii/58598475

There's just so little context for the actions you see that the decisions you take are meaningless.

[Wiper]

Aye, they make some very good points. Never would've expected it of the GameFAQs forums

But yes, there are signs of the game being rushed dotted throughout, but it has to be the way the story is told, particularly in the later acts, that is the biggest (and most depressing) clue. Such a shame, as the game could have been absolutely amazing

[revlob]

Good post on GameFAQs about the ending. Spoilers follow.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/988968-dragon-age-ii/58598475

There's just so little context for the actions you see that the decisions you take are meaningless.

It's all spot on. This part about the final quest particularly bugged me:

It was evident right from the start of the Mages Vs Templars storyline in Act III that Hawke would be forced to choose sides later, and the script writers were trying to make it a difficult choice for the player by painting both sides as "bad". Picking between two evils is not a choice. A real choice would have offered not taking either side, as the Gamefaqs guy suggests, and the killer for me is that one of the dialogue options actually supports this line of thought, but picking it results in some glib nonsensical comment from Meredith about how Hawke has to get involved, "because you're the Champion", and you're left with no other option than to side with a faction.

At that point I really wanted Hawke just to walk away and wash her hands of the whole matter, or alternatively offer both sides a chance to live under my rule or face obliteration, but the choice I was offered was so forced I felt no emotional attachment to the decision I was being funnelled towards.

The last battle with Meredith was quite fun, but it's the only saving grace of a pretty terrible end to a rushed game.

[df0]

Agreed.

So all my years in Kirkwall, all the people I have killed and saved, all the decisions I have made result in this one thing: kill both 'leaders'. Why have me choose sides if I have to fight 'em both anyway. Plus nowhere in Act I and II are they portraid as the bad guys. It was all about the Qurani.