Bioshock: Infinite - New E3 Demo - Post #307

[Comrade]

While I can sympathise with the anti-violence people a little - I know I often felt a little disappointed when I moved on in the game and saw some tears in the distance which indicated a battle arena, as I probably would have preferred to stay exploring forever - but this whining just seems like some kind if sour grapes, though I'm not really sure who they're sour about. I'm really looking forward to that game Gone Home - it's made by the people who did the Minerva's Den DLC, and it's all about sifting through this family's house and finding out about them. So it's exactly the type of game that these detractors would want. But Gone Home is set in just a single house. Infinite is set across a whole city. If you want to make a game on the scale of Infinite it costs millions of dollars. That means it has to sell to a mass market. That means it's got to have killing mans in it. That's the reality. And I bet Irrational are annoyed that after being criticised for the mediocre combat in Bioshock 1, they massively improve the combat and now people complain it has any combat at all.

Actually, thinking about it, I suspect the sour grapes comes from people who are just annoyed that all this talk and philosophising is about a "base" normal game, and not some indie game darling.

[AlwaysBeClosing]

I preferred the (from what I remember) simpler combat in the first one, and the atmosphere - maybe its the low-res of the projector, but it doesn't look nearly as pretty or charming. Any decent screengrabs hosted somewhere that's isn't imgur (it's blocked here)? PC I guess is best.

[Uzi]

I preferred the (from what I remember) simpler combat in the first one, and the atmosphere - maybe its the low-res of the projector, but it doesn't look nearly as pretty or charming. Any decent screengrabs hosted somewhere that's isn't imgur (it's blocked here)? PC I guess is best.

The combat is really bad in the first one in comparison. I guess people have some rose tinted glasses because I played through it recently (in Feb) and then went immediately to 2 to find that isn't much improved either. First of all, the combat is always in tiny enclosed spaces which just means you spam certain plasmid/gun combos and can't really flank around enemies who just stand or charge you. The guns feel far more floaty and the hit detection is nowhere near as satisfying. Even the vigors are way more fun than the plasmids in my eyes because of how they're executed because you don't just need to blam people in an enclosed space.

Also, fuck, the hacking. Let's not go there. So glad they removed that altogether- even though 2's hacking was better- pipe mania pretty much extended the playtime by about 4 hours maybe.

[smac]

I just finished my first run-through of 1; I basically hacked everything, kept a couple of friendly security 'bots around, Hypnotised big daddies, and let loose the killer bees.

What combat?

[Vemsie]

I saw Kieron Gillen linking this article. It's a good read. We really need more Ken Levines.

http://kevinjameswong.com/2013/04/08/bioshock-infinite-is-a-metacommentary-on-the-nature-of-video-game-storytelling/

(apologies if already posted)

Also, the whispers you hear during Posession are lines from Romeo and Juliet when played backwards.

http://youtu.be/JnLfQPZBSC4?t=33s

[RubberJohnny]

I saw Kieron Gillen linking this article. It's a good read. We really need more Ken Levines.

http://kevinjameswong.com/2013/04/08/bioshock-infinite-is-a-metacommentary-on-the-nature-of-video-game-storytelling/

(apologies if already posted)

Ooh, I like that. Proper clever.

http://www.destructoid.com/why-does-bioshock-infinite-need-to-be-non-violent--251424.phtml#So8WG2O5UsxTHfu2.01

Why does Infinite need to be non violent?

I don't think anyone has said it needs to be non-violent though? People have asked for less over-the-top violence, and that post Morrius is mocking is saying it'd be nice if there were more ways to interact with the world than just shooting and pressing F. He seems to have exaggerated peoples arguments wildly to make them easier to take down, but even then doesn't actually do a very good job?

I mean, the crux of the post is "Brooker is a soldier, Gordon Freeman isn't, which makes more sense?". Him being a soldier doesn't really explain why everyone in Columbias heads are jelly filled bags just ready to explode given a moments notice.

[Smitty]

Ooh, I like that. Proper clever.I don't think anyone has said it needs to be non-violent though? People have asked for less over-the-top violence, and that post Morrius is mocking is saying it'd be nice if there were more ways to interact with the world than just shooting and pressing F. He seems to have exaggerated peoples arguments wildly to make them easier to take down, but even then doesn't actually do a very good job?

I mean, the crux of the post is "Brooker is a soldier, Gordon Freeman isn't, which makes more sense?". Him being a soldier doesn't really explain why everyone in Columbias heads are jelly filled bags just ready to explode given a moments notice.

Some people have called for it to be a puzzle game with no violence.

I only skimmed the Jim Sterling piece but I'm betting he's bang on there.

[RubberJohnny]

Some people have called for it to be a puzzle game with no violence.

I haven't seen any of that, I've seen a lot of people saying "it shouldn't be like that", but they're not actually responding to anyone who said that, just hugely exaggerating what they were saying to shoot it down.

I don't particularly care about the violence, it's just weird the Internet has made something into "all or nothing" over something that isn't even in contention?

[bulletzen]

So! I did a podcast for the first time.

It's about Bioshock and there is some decent chat about it. We'll be talking about the rest of the games in the series. Excuse me though. I was rather nervous and very Scottish.
http://www.gonzoplanet.com/2013/04/13/d ... -bioshock/

[Comrade]

I haven't seen any of that, I've seen a lot of people saying "it shouldn't be like that", but they're not actually responding to anyone who said that, just hugely exaggerating what they were saying to shoot it down.

I don't particularly care about the violence, it's just weird the Internet has made something into "all or nothing" over something that isn't even in contention?

Leigh Alexander's blog post that Morrius is talking about at the top of this page is saying it.

[RubberJohnny]

Leigh Alexander's blog post that Morrius is talking about at the top of this page is saying it.

The one that says

It's not even that I wish it wasn't a shooter, or that there was no combat.

[redman]

edit... I should learn to read...

check this out:

pretty cool for someone to make by themselves.

[rumblecat]

Finished this earlier today- loved it. Found myself getting really drawn into the story, really wanting to protect the girl- and loved the way the story played out across the voxophones, although at the same time find myself distracted by the need to cover every blade of grass and open every drawer in case I missed something. Minor complaints, big spoilers-

- considering how important Comstock turns out to be, would have liked a bit more interaction between him and DeWitt, and the final meeting between the two- considering it's a man meeting himself - felt a bit underwhelming at the time and in retrospect.

But apart from that, the story was great- loved the explanation of how they came across the tech and the music and so on- and the return to Rapture actually sent some chills down my spine.

For some reason I never played Bioshock 2 even though I liked the first game a lot. Is it a worth a playthrough- I'm not that bothered about the combat in Bioshock, but is the story any good?

[angel]

Bioshock 2 is good yeah, not earth shattering like Infinite but a worthy sequel. Just beat 1999 mode..expected a lot of pain on the final battle but it was suprisingly easy. Unlike the trip up to it on the barges, which was tough. Used lots of Devil's Kiss and Blood to salts. Also I find a good way to get rid of the heavy armour rocket guys is to just quickly possess them. Still managed to miss 5 voxophones despite exploring every nook and cranny.

Going back thro again now, can't get enough.

[Vemsie]

The trip up is easy if you just

use Undertow to blast them off the ships.

[angel]

The trip up is easy if you just

use Undertow to blast them off the ships.

Didnt think of that, the bit that got me was

when you suddenly were surrounded by 3x gun balloons. Once I respawned to an instant death immediately twice in a row.

I was playing it in a way where I had to reach the next save without dying, I only allowed myself about 3 respawns through the entire game...and that was mainly paying the 100 eagles to not have to repeat 20 mins play. The checkpointing in 1999 mode is vicious. Enjoyed it though.

[PaB]

Just finished. The last two hours are absolutely extraordinary. I'm going down the pub to get head round it all

[NecroMorrius]

The Kevin James Wong blogpost is excellent, thanks for posting. It really helped solidify a vague notion I had rattling around at the back of my head but couldn't quite grasp.

[angel]

Ive still not seen an explanation why the Lutece statue changes from brother to sister at the start of the game, why does it actually phase to the other in front of you.....nothing else in the game does.

[p1nseeker]

I felt strangely underwhelmed when i finished this. Thought the storyline was kinda silly tbh.

[DocG]

Ive still not seen an explanation why the Lutece statue changes from brother to sister at the start of the game, why does it actually phase to the other in front of you.....nothing else in the game does.

Wait, did I miss this? Where does that happen?

[redman]

at the very start, right before you go to the raffle.

to be honest I only got a glimpse of it on my second playthrough. I'm pretty sure the game prompts you to hold a button to view it.

[BrerLappin]

I felt strangely underwhelmed when i finished this. Thought the storyline was kinda silly tbh.

I felt the same at the ending. My initial reaction was "is that it?". I expected to be giving my monitor a standing ovation

The ending is far better when youve read explanations/theories etc. I dotn think id have had much of a clue as to what happened without them. But yeah at first i was pretty underwhelmed too.

[Jonzo]

I absolutely detested the final fight. It really, really pissed me off. It took me about three tries and I wanted to tear my hair out each time. Too many patriots and the lag on 360 made it borderline unplayable.

Then the ending actually made me cringe a little bit, especially when Elizabeth went

"smother. smother. smother. SMOTHER."

It did have us talking for at least an hour afterwards though, I just felt it leaned a little towards pretentious guff. I kind of wish it had ended differently.

All that said, exploring Columbia is one of my favourite experiences in a long, long while.

[daveodeth]

I just wish they'd straddled the side of System Shock rather than the more straightforward path they did.

[Smitty]

I didn't realise Tom Watson MP ever did game reviews.

http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/2013/04/reviewed-bioshock-infinite

[NecroMorrius]

He's made the same mistake a lot of people have:

It fails as a breakthrough polemical first-person shooter because the plot doesn’t adequately integrate with the gameplay.

But the racism/segregation stuff isn't the plot. It's the setting. It's an interesting backdrop. Some people seem disappointed that the game seems to throw away all that stuff eventually instead of taking a hard stance or making it the core of the plot, I can see their point, but it didn't bother me while playing. The unexpected direction of the last third of the game was welcome, I liked the fact I wasn't forced to choose between the two warring ideologies and that the ugly side of both was explored. The point of Bioshock for me is the idea that fanaticism ends up costing you your humanity, I'm not interested in picking between or fighting for/against a particular branch of fanaticism. It's really important that Booker remains an unjoiner throughout, caught in the middle.

[rumblecat]

I felt the same at the ending. My initial reaction was "is that it?". I expected to be giving my monitor a standing ovation

The ending is far better when youve read explanations/theories etc. I dotn think id have had much of a clue as to what happened without them. But yeah at first i was pretty underwhelmed too.

Did you pick up many of the voxophones? Because I think if key ones are missed, the story probably would slide into incomprehension. I did spend five minutes near the end reading through them all again, something I'd never normally do in a game, and they do an excellent job of fill in the gaps in the story- but on the downside there were a few I missed which explained some pretty important things as well. I did get pretty wrapped up in trying to solve the mystery, the only other game that's really grabbed me that way was Silent Hill : Shattered Memories.

Big ending spoiler stuff-

The ending did feel a little rushed- Elizabeth has worked it all out before you so rather than both of you realising that you're her father and so on, she's a few steps ahead of you, so you it's missing something... and the fact that you sold your own daughter never quite has the emotional punch it should have, or the fact you are trying to pretty much save her from yourself.... then again...

[BrerLappin]

Did you pick up many of the voxophones? Because I think if key ones are missed, the story probably would slide into incomprehension. I did spend five minutes near the end reading through them all again, something I'd never normally do in a game, and they do an excellent job of fill in the gaps in the story- but on the downside there were a few I missed which explained some pretty important things as well. I did get pretty wrapped up in trying to solve the mystery, the only other game that's really grabbed me that way was Silent Hill : Shattered Memories.

Big ending spoiler stuff-

The ending did feel a little rushed- Elizabeth has worked it all out before you so rather than both of you realising that you're her father and so on, she's a few steps ahead of you, so you it's missing something... and the fact that you sold your own daughter never quite has the emotional punch it should have, or the fact you are trying to pretty much save her from yourself.... then again...

Yeah, in SP games im pretty OCD for stuff like audio diaries or exploring every nook and cranny for secrets. I dont think id missed many voxphones and i had taken my time as much as possible with the game, still was left scratching my head at the ending the first time around tho. I dont like how the bulk of the story is all revealed in the last few minutes alright, its a giant infodump they couldve spread out a bit more.

[NecroMorrius]

Most of it you can work out beforehand, there are clues everywhere.The 'reveals' are more like confirmations, I thought.